How Free Will Destroys Faith in Christ;

[robycop3]

"This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in [both] which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 that ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:" ( 2 Peter 3:1-2 ).


" But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. " ( 2 Peter 3:8-9 )

Who are the "any" and "all" here, @robycop3 ?

With all due resoect - all means ALL.

The fact that God made Peter's letter part of Scripture meant it was for EVERYONE.

 

[robycop3]

This whole thread is going to pot.

I don't know of anyone now living, or in my life who came to Jesus simply outta the blue. ALL heard the Gospel from someone, or read it in a Bible. And to be saved, they, same as I, had to choose to believe it. I'd heard the Gospel mosta my life, but I was age 30 before I choseta believe it.

 

[1689Dave]

This whole thread is going to pot.

I don't know of anyone now living, or in my life who came to Jesus simply outta the blue. ALL heard the Gospel from someone, or read it in a Bible. And to be saved, they, same as I, had to choose to believe it. I'd heard the Gospel mosta my life, but I was age 30 before I choseta believe it.

Here's another addition to the OP.
How Free Will Destroys Faith in Christ (Continued)

 

[Aaron]

Does Jesus have free will?

Can God lie?

 

[Aaron]

Sounds like a very Christ-like thing to do. Tis the season, I guess...

Somebody needs a hug.

 

[Aaron]

Did a little lower than the angels have any thing to do with the vanity God subjected his creation ?

No, just lower in rank and glory.

A man alone does not bear the image of God. It is in "them," male and female. Genesis 1:27. The angels neither marry nor beget. In marriage there is a lover, a beloved and the spirit of love. And two persons are one flesh. This is where the image of God is more fully borne.

Yes Jesus had free will and he exercised it when he said, "Not my will but thine be done," and he free willingly poured out his soul unto death.

When people ask that, they usually are asking if it is possible for Jesus to sin. And the answer is, of course, no. A good tree cannot bear evil fruit. It is impossible for God to lie. Hebrews 6:18

 

[Particular]

Did anyone see the poster say God is the author of sin, or that the lost have partial free will? Neither did I.
BTW, who made the "well." God did. So the effort to say God did not cause the consequences of Adam's sin is futile.

God made the well because of Satan.
Once again you avoided the fact that humans cannot get themselves out by willing themselves out. They don't have the freedom of will to do so.

 

[Particular]

Jesus Christ is the perfect standard of a Man. We bear the image of God.

1 Corinthians 15
22For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

1 Corinthians 15
45So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. 47The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. 48As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. 49Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.


Does Jesus have free will?

We bear the image of the first Adam, a corrupted version that was made in the image of God and fell into the pit. We are born in the pit. We cannot will ourselves out. We need a Savior.

Jesus has a free will. He is the second Adam. He continually stated "Not my will be done, but yours be done" to God the Father.
When we are "born again" we are placed into the second Adam. We are "made alive with Christ."

Utilyan, you show yourself to be a Pelagian.

 

[Dave G]

With all due resoect - all means ALL.

The fact that God made Peter's letter part of Scripture meant it was for EVERYONE.

With all due respect, Roby, you keep quoting 2 Peter 3:9 as if it applies to everyone...it doesn't and never did.

It applies to the "beloved" from verse 8.
The "any" and "all" do not apply to all men, living and dead...
They apply to the "us-ward", whom Peter is addressing in verse 8, verse 1, and further back at the beginning of the letter.

I remember when I was in Independent Baptist churches growing up, and the preachers kept using that verse as if it applied to all men...
To me, it's an easy thing to do when one is looking only at the verse itself, to the exclusion of the rest of the words around it.

Romans 5:8, Isaiah 53:6, Deuteronomy 30:19 and many others also come to mind.

In interesting thing, context.
Without proper context ( who a passage is speaking to and for ), all kinds of Scriptures can be misused... even in ignorance, as I did for years.


I encourage you to keep looking at it, as it took awhile for me to see it because I had to make a conscious effort to plug it back into the text where it rightfully belongs, instead of going along with how I was conditioned to look at it after over 25 years sitting in front of those preachers as an IB / IFB.

 

[Dave G]

ALL heard the Gospel from someone, or read it in a Bible.

Agreed.

And to be saved, they, same as I, had to choose to believe it.

That's what I used to think.

Then the Lord showed me that outside of Him causing me to approach Him ( Psalms 65:4 ), I would have never believed on Christ.
Outside of me being ordained to eternal life ( Acts of the Apostles 13:48 ), being chosen by Him and being given to His Son ( John 6:65 ) and Christ giving me the gift of eternal life ( John 17:2 ), I would have never believed His Gospel.

Outside the work of God ( John 6:29 ) and having it given to me in the behalf of Christ ( Philippians 1:29 ), I would have never chosen to believe on Christ for the forgiveness of my sins.

Regardless, from my perspective I chose to believe the Gospel, when I didn't choose to believe it before.

I'd heard the Gospel mosta my life, but I was age 30 before I choseta believe it.

Strange thing, the power of God, isn't it?

All your life it seems you thought that the Gospel, and the preaching of the cross, was foolishness ( 1 Corinthians 1:18 ).
In other words, not worth your serious consideration.
Then one day, "bam!"...you up and believed it.

Huh?
How do you explain that?
Chance?
You just simply "changed your mind"?


No, @robycop3 ...
He "called" you by His grace ( Galatians 1:15 ) with the Gospel of your salvation ( Ephesians 1:13 )...
When before, He hadn't yet called you.



I wish you well, and may God bless you sir.

 

[robycop3]

Agreed.

That's what I used to think.
Then the Lord showed me that outside of Him causing me to approach Him ( Psalms 65:4 ), I would have never believed in Him.

Regardless, from my perspective I chose to believe it, when I didn't choose to believe it before.

Strange thing, the power of God, isn't it?

All your life you thought the Gospel, and the preaching of the cross was foolishness ( 1 Corinthians 1:18 )...in other words, not worth your serious consideration.
Then one day, "bam!"...you up and believed it.

How do you explain that?
Chance?
You just simply "changed your mind"?

No, Roby...
He "called" you by His grace ( Galatians 1:15 ) with the Gospel of your salvation ( Ephesians 1:13 ).



I wish you well, and may God bless you sir.

With all due respect, I MADE THE FREE CHOICE, as I studied the Gospel & saw it was true. (Mosta my life I've been a keen student of history.)

 

[robycop3]

With all due respect, Roby, you keep quoting 2 Peter 3:9 as if it applies to everyone...it doesn't and never did.

It applies to the "beloved" from verse 8.
The "any" and "all" do not apply to all men, living and dead...
They apply to the "us-ward", whom Peter is addressing in verse 8, verse 1, and further back at the beginning of the letter.

I remember when I was in Independent Baptist churches growing up, and the preachers kept using that verse as if it applied to all men...
To me, it's an easy thing to do when one is looking only at the verse itself, to the exclusion of the rest of the words around it.

Romans 5:8, Isaiah 53:6, Deuteronomy 30:19 and many others also come to mind.

In interesting thing, context.
Without proper context ( who a passage is speaking to and for ), all kinds of Scriptures can be misused... even in ignorance, as I did for years.


I encourage you to keep looking at it, as it took awhile for me to see it because I had to make a conscious effort to plug it back into the text where it rightfully belongs, instead of going along with how I was conditioned to look at it after over 25 years sitting in front of those preachers as an IB / IFB.

Do you know of anyone who earnestly sought Jesus, but was barred from coming to Him? Know of any honest seeker Jesus rejected ? Know of any conscious living person who cannot be saved ?

 

[1689Dave]

Do you know of anyone who earnestly sought Jesus, but was barred from coming to Him? Know of any honest seeker Jesus rejected ? Know of any conscious living person who cannot be saved ?

You chose to believe because you already believed by grace. Otherwise you would have thought it all foolishness.

 

[Dave G]

Do you know of anyone who earnestly sought Jesus, but was barred from coming to Him?

No.
But I do know that no one seeks God ( Romans 3:10-18, Psalms 10:4 ) outside of Him causing it ( Psalms 65:4 ).

So, why does anyone truly seek Him?
God's word tells us why.

Know of any honest seeker Jesus rejected ?

No.
Again, why did they seek Him?

The Scriptures are not silent on the subject, roby.

Know of any conscious living person who cannot be saved ?

Sure.
Everyone that does not have their names written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world ( Revelation 17:8 ).

Do I know who they are?
No, I do not.

 

[Dave G]

With all due respect, I MADE THE FREE CHOICE, as I studied the Gospel & saw it was true.

So did I, roby.

I freely believed during the preaching of His word in 1978.
In fact, I didn't even hesitate when I heard the word of God.

I automatically knew it was true, and that it was aimed right at me.
I knew I was a sinner, and that apart from Jesus Christ, I was condemned to Hell.

His blessings and comfort to you, sir, in all of your trials and tribulations.

 

[Van]

God made the well because of Satan.
Once again you avoided the fact that humans cannot get themselves out by willing themselves out. They don't have the freedom of will to do so.

Who said any human can get themselves out of being made sinners? No one. Thus a fabrication of deflection.

No verse or scripture says God made the consequence of sin because of Satan, what nonsense.
Did anyone see the poster say God is the author of sin, or that the lost have partial free will? Neither did I.
BTW, who made the "well." God did. So the effort to say God did not cause the consequences of Adam's sin is futile.

 

[InTheLight]

You chose to believe because you already believed by grace.

You do a good job explaining the doctrines of grace because you are good at explaining the doctrines of grace.



Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[Aaron]

With all due respect, I MADE THE FREE CHOICE, as I studied the Gospel & saw it was true. (Mosta my life I've been a keen student of history.)

You chose to believe because you already believed by grace. Otherwise you would have thought it all foolishness.

What Dave said.

 

[Aaron]

You do a good job explaining the doctrines of grace because you are good at explaining the doctrines of grace.



Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

When when reading these posts, you do not choose to understand written English. You find that you do. And unless you weren't born in an English-speaking environment, you were not taught English. Being around it you passively picked it up little by little by nature. You did not choose to understand and speak English. The comprehension was there.

And when someone is speaking a language you know, you cannot switch off your ears to keep from hearing what is being said. You hear it, and you understand it. You cannot choose for it to sound like gibberish to you. It either does or it does not. You have no choice in the matter.

That is the way it is with faith. 'He that hath an ear to hear, let him hear what the Spirit saith.' You don't choose to believe the message. If you have an ear to hear it, you cannot switch it off. You will hear it when it is preached, and you will find that you either believe it or you do not. You don't make a choice in the matter.

 

[Scott Downey]

Do you know of anyone who earnestly sought Jesus, but was barred from coming to Him? Know of any honest seeker Jesus rejected ? Know of any conscious living person who cannot be saved ?

You can not be saved unless God grants for you to know and follow Christ. The way I see it, everyone who follows a false religion until their dying day has not been granted by God to come to Christ.