1689Dave
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I was saved and attended many churches even though I never heard the gospel until the late 70s on my own.
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How Free Will Destroys Faith in Christ;
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Scott Downey
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Until God grants that you come to Christ, you can not come to Christ. In your case it just was not your time yet.
Scripture says exactly that, both parts.
Some people just are never granted to Know God and Christ. God does not continually work on the elect all their life, only in the fulness of their time does He do His work in them and save them. HE does keep the foreknown elect from dying before they believe and get sealed in the Holy Spirit. Everything that happens is under God's control.
Scott Downey
Well-Known Member
Paul describes his life before coming to Christ in Galatians 1.
Only when it pleased God in God's perfect timing for Paul, did God reveal Christ in Him.
Honestly that is what it means to be born of God, Christ in you.
Prior to that, Paul was called Saul, but was also one of God's foreknown to Him elect, of course Paul had no clue about that one bit. God's plans for Paul were there at Paul's birth, God caused Paul to survive his birth, God's plans can not be thwarted. So that means God preserved Paul his whole life, even while persecuting His church.
13 For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it. 14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace, 16 to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood, 17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.
Only when it pleased God in God's perfect timing for Paul, did God reveal Christ in Him.
Honestly that is what it means to be born of God, Christ in you.
Prior to that, Paul was called Saul, but was also one of God's foreknown to Him elect, of course Paul had no clue about that one bit. God's plans for Paul were there at Paul's birth, God caused Paul to survive his birth, God's plans can not be thwarted. So that means God preserved Paul his whole life, even while persecuting His church.
13 For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it. 14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace, 16 to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood, 17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
" But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called [me] by his grace,
16 to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:" ( Galatians 1:15-16 ).
" The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." ( 2 Peter 3:9 ).
Oops...didn't even look at your second post on this page, # 83.
Well-said.
Scott Downey
Well-Known Member
yes, God is not willing that any of those He has given to Christ perish, and so then they don't." But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called [me] by his grace,
16 to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:" ( Galatians 1:15-16 ).
" The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." ( 2 Peter 3:9 ).
Oops...didn't even look at your second post.
Well-said.
This verse is in total agreement with 2 Peter, who in that place is writing to God's elect. Peter did not write his letter to the unbelieving world, it is not for them to read and understand, the wicked shall never understand and the dead know nothing.
John 6:39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
So did I, roby.
I freely believed during the preaching of His word in 1978.
In fact, I didn't even hesitate when I heard the word of God.
I automatically knew it was true, and that it was aimed right at me.
I knew I was a sinner, and that apart from Jesus Christ, I was condemned to Hell.
His blessings and comfort to you, sir, in all of your trials and tribulations.
and when He may come -- the Spirit of truth -- He will guide you to all the truth, for He will not speak from Himself, but as many things as He will hear He will speak, and the coming things He will tell you; J 16:13
Good post and you can add this to Paul's thoughts.
1 Timothy 1:13, KJV: "Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief." ... But God had mercy on me because I did it in ignorance and unbelief."
God translated Paul from unbelief unto belief.
IMHO
No, just lower in rank and glory.
Let's look a little closer.
and him who was made some little less than messengers we see -- Jesus -- because of the suffering of the death, with glory and honour having been crowned, that by the grace of God for every one he might taste of death.
So he could, shed his blood, pour out his soul unto death, give his life a ransom for many, die.
Now what is the, in hope, of Rom 8:20? Is it not being redeemed from death and corruption? See 8:23,24 Does this not take place at the same moment as Luke 20:35,36 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
Was Adam created, of the flesh? A little lower than the angels? I believe the bible shows Adam was created so he could die and then be redeemed for the purpose of God destroying the devil, the sinner from the beginning, and his works.
Here is a thought. What is, "free will," other than, the knowledge of good and evil? Why did God not want them to eat of that tree? To eat of that tree was to have a God other than the creator.
As always IMHO.
I DID think it was foolishness for quite a while. I'm very skeptical, & reckoned all religion, fromChristianity to animism was a man-made crutch, a fear of the unknown. I figured once a person was dead, he/she was DEAD & GONE; that was the end of it & a person's mind faded back into the oblivion from whence it came, at death.
But a close call while copping reminded me how vulnerable & fragile I was. I'd heard Christian preaching all my life, & just let it go in one ear & out the other, same as political rhetoric, etc. But I'd been a keen studier of history ever since I could read, & at my dad's urging, I began studying religious history closely. I found that Moslems, Hindus, Shinto, Bhuddists, etc. believed in their religion as strongly as anyone. Many Japanese deliberately & willingly went to their deaths for their emperor in WW2. Many a Moslem willingly died in jihads. Many a Christian had been executed, some by burning, some by being fed to lions, some by simply being killed with a sword, spear, or later, shot. Yes, all religions had fervent believers who willingly died for their religion.
But Dad urged me to study Christianity closer, & try to disprove its claims. Soon, I found that Christian prophecy had a 100% fulfillment score so far; no other religion's prophecy record was that good, nor as precise. The more I studied, the more I saw Christianity was genuine.
It finally sank into me I was a sinner & was doomed to hell if I were to die right then, & I opened up to Jesus, asking Him to accept me, Thanxgiving, 1978. (There was no question in my mind that I'd sinned greatly & often, being an "Oakland Rider"-style cop. cussing quite a bit, lying, etc. often.) Jesus removed my desire to do those bad things, & I soon realized that for me, being a cop & a Christian was incompatible, even though I knew several Christian cops. I resigned as an officer, & became a FT paramedic til I was called back to the steel mill.
Again, my coming to Jesus was entirely on my own volition. I read the story of Mitsuo Fuchida, who'd led the aircraft what'd attacked Pearl Harbor, & became a Christian & a preacher beginning 1950. He had firmly believed in Shinto & Bushido all his life til then.he was influenced by former Japanese POWs who told him the Americans had treated them kindly, feeding, housing, clothing them, providing top-rate medical & dental care. He was especially impressed by their story of extra-kind treatment by Peggy Covell, a young lady whose parents, American Christian missionaries in the Philippines, had been killed by Japanese soldiers. To Fuchida, this was inexplicible, as, under Bushido, the killer(s) of one's parent(s) was a sworn enemy for life, & the person's aim in life was to take revenge on the killer(s). He became driven to find out why one would treat an enemy with love & kindness.
He found his answers in the Bible.
Enough ranting. Fact is, I came to Jesus on my own.
Rev. 3:20Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me.
I answered His knock & let Him in.(Notice again, Jesus said "ANYONE".)
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Rev 3:20 is about a church of believers who shut Jesus out of their program.
That is not what that verse says. You added words to it.....why,?
Once again, Jesus said "ANYONE". He didn't say "any Laodiceans".
Because he wants to push calvinism.
1689Dave
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He was speaking to all believers.
Particular
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What do you suppose God was doing all during that time? Was he ambivalent and just crossing his fingers that you would choose to accept the unwrapped gift he had placed that was sitting nearby?
What does the Bible say about what God does during the process?
You're adding words.
What was He doing? We don't know.
Why have Bibles, preaching, worship, etc. if everyone's already unalterably predestinated ?
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
No, the church he spoke to were believers. They represent all churches who are guilty of the same.
But He was speaking to EVERYONE, as His words became Scripture.
1689Dave
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Only believers would take him seriously.
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