How Long Does it Take You to Backslide?

[freeatlast]

Think this one of the points of the prodigal Son...

That he was and always was a child of God(Father) and een while out in the World and in with Pigs, he reamined a Child, who finally repented and came back to God

God always was there to welcome Him back!

just shows from Jesus Himself that love of God and his Grace towards His own never fails/stops, and that His own will caome back to Him, eventually!

No that is not the point. The passage is not about an individual. It is however about a nation and that nation is Israel. While they are His children in one respect they are not saved. They will one day return and become saved according to scripture when they get tired of eating with the hogs.

 

[JesusFan]

No that is not the point. The passage is not about an individual. It is however about a nation and that nation is Israel. While they are His children in one respect they are not saved. They will one day return and become saved according to scripture when they get tired of eating with the hogs.

That is quite creative, but doubt VERY MUCH that was what the Lord intended those hearing him to take from His message!

the point to them was that God was a Father, and that he has unlimited love towards his child, and that whenever Child 'came to his senses" that he would be fully restored!

 

[preacher4truth]

That is quite creative, but doubt VERY MUCH that was what the Lord intended those hearing him to take from His message!

the point to them was that God was a Father, and that he has unlimited love towards his child, and that whenever Child 'came to his senses" that he would be fully restored!

There is a lot of grace missing from what he says, and how he interacts with others.

That he can't see carnality also involves moral sins in the Scriptures is unfortunate, so too his attitude toward other believers. Notice he won't address that? Why? Because he's incorrect, thus he avoids it. Why run from truth? Interesting? Indeed!

I wouldn't walk so high and mighty, there might come a lesson, and I have seen it happen many a time.

David? He got away from God in murder, adultery, lying, yet, he was still God's son, and His possession. By the way, God knew all that Davis would fail in, and God still chose him. The same thing for believers today applies.

He didn't need to be saved, he went through some of the same things that even saved people go through today. He sinned, and got right with God. This to me is perseverance of a saint, showing himself to truly be Gods. Same thing with RD2's testimony. And RD2 is most gracious in his response to a rather spiteful freeatlast.

Interesetingly, Piper told a story of a professing believer, once vibrant in service to the Lord, then lived in adultery. Piper told her in essence, if she didn't get right, she would prove herself lost. She repented, and God restored her to service and to a assurance of salvation.

- Peace

 

[JesusFan]

There is a lot of grace missing from what he says, and how he interacts with others.

That he can't see carnality also involves moral sins in the Scriptures is unfortunate, so too his attitude toward other believers. Notice he won't address that? Why? Because he's incorrect, thus he avoids it. Why run from truth? Interesting? Indeed!

I wouldn't walk so high and mighty, there might come a lesson, and I have seen it happen many a time.

David? He got away from God in murder, adultery, lying, yet, he was still God's son, and His possession. By the way, God knew all that Davis would fail in, and God still chose him. The same thing for believers today applies.

He didn't need to be saved, he went through some of the same things that even saved people go through today. He sinned, and got right with God. This to me is perseverance of a saint, showing himself to truly be Gods. Same thing with RD2's testimony. And RD2 is most gracious in his response to a rather spiteful freeatlast.

Interesetingly, Piper told a story of a professing believer, once vibrant in service to the Lord, then lived in adultery. Piper told her in essence, if she didn't get right, she would prove herself lost. She repented, and God restored her to service and to a assurance of salvation.

- Peace

Remember the Lord Jesus saying:
'Those who have had MUCH sin forgives loves MUCH"
"those who have LITLLE sin forgiven loves LITTLE"

Think that he was address pharisees hear, and showing them that their smug self rightous attitude showed that God indeed had "little forgivess towards them!"

 

[preacher4truth]

Remember the Lord Jesus saying:
'Those who have had MUCH sin forgives loves MUCH"
"those who have LITLLE sin forgiven loves LITTLE"

Think that he was address pharisees hear, and showing them that their smug self rightous attitude showed that God indeed had "little forgivess towards them!"

And I think it applies to recognition of such. Reminds me of the steward forgiven for 10 million (or however much), and strangles a brother over a buck or so. The steward didn't learn grace at all. His actions proved his spiritual state, or, his spiritual state caused his actions.

- Peace

 

[freeatlast]

That is quite creative, but doubt VERY MUCH that was what the Lord intended those hearing him to take from His message!

the point to them was that God was a Father, and that he has unlimited love towards his child, and that whenever Child 'came to his senses" that he would be fully restored!

If a person is already saved there is no restoration. They have it all. The passage says the person is lost and they are. The Lord is not deailing with the church or an individual. He is dealing with lost Israel His children by calling. When they get tired of the hog food they will come, but it has not happened yet.

 

[JesusFan]

And I think it applies to recognition of such. Reminds me of the steward forgiven for 10 million (or however much), and strangles a brother over a buck or so. The steward didn't learn grace at all. His actions proved his spiritual state, or, his spiritual state caused his actions.

- Peace

reminds me of what I heard one time...

"Show me just what area of Sin a preacher shouts on highest, that is the area of sin that he has most trouble with himself!"

 

[preacher4truth]

If a person is already saved there is no restoration. They have it all. The passage says the person is lost and they are. The Lord is not deailing with the church or an individual. He is dealing with lost Israel His children by calling. When they get tired of the hog food they will come, but it has not happened yet.

Not true whatsoever, again. Hence Galatians 6:1:

"Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted."

- Peace

 

[JesusFan]

Not true whatsoever, again. Hence Galatians 6:1:

"Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted."

- Peace[/QUOTE

guess that the Blood of Jesus "doesn't" cover all sins than. Eh?

 

[freeatlast]

Not true whatsoever, again. Hence Galatians 6:1:

"Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted."

- Peace

The Gal. passage is not speaking about restoration to God. Also it is speaking about any single sin, not a lifestyle of sin. It is speaking about restoration in the fellowship. We cannot restore someone else to God.
In the parable there is two brothers and both are lost. One, the younger, represents Israel as a whole. The older represents the religious leaders, the Pharisees.
The younger wishes for his fathers death, by asking for the inheritance.The father graciously gives him his desire and does not rebuke him. The son leaves and lives his life as he sees fit. It is over a long period of time. However he sees his sin and returns to be a servant, but is given the place of a son with honor.
The older is angered because he has worked all his life and obeyed in everything and was never offered any such honor. Works do not save! The father pleads with him to come in to the feast. He refused to humble himself and come in so he remains lost. This is trying to show Israel that works do not save and that they have departed from God. Some departed by works of righteousness and some departed by rejection unto sinning, but all are lost.

So one son the younger, returns in repentance and humility and is welcomed in unto his salvation. The other, older son, is angry and rejects the fathers plea to come in and remains lost because of pride. In both sons it is speaking of Israel. It is true one could apply it to an individual even though that is not the intent in the passage but not to a saved individual who is saved and quote “backslides” un-quote. It is speaking to backslidden Israel who is lost. If a person is saved they will remain following the Father as they are kept by the Spirit. 1John 3. A real Christian cannot backslide when using the biblical understanding of the term.

 

[preacher4truth]

Not true whatsoever, again. Hence Galatians 6:1:

"Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted."

- Peace[/QUOTE

guess that the Blood of Jesus "doesn't" cover all sins than. Eh?

Of course you're being facetious here. When God chose David, He knew David would fall, yet, He held him in His hand. None of His will ever be lost. Fall? Some, yes. Lost? None, ever.

 

[Robert Snow]

If a person is already saved there is no restoration. They have it all. The passage says the person is lost and they are. The Lord is not deailing with the church or an individual. He is dealing with lost Israel His children by calling. When they get tired of the hog food they will come, but it has not happened yet.

This is an interesting observation. You may be correct, but that doesn't mean that is all there is to it. Often times things in scripture have more than one application. This may be only one aspect.

I know that Christians do get away from the Lord, some know they are away and feel guilty about returning. Other are away and don't even know it. It is evident by some of the insults found among our postings.

 

[freeatlast]

This is an interesting observation. You may be correct, but that doesn't mean that is all there is to it. Often times things in scripture have more than one application. This may be only one aspect.

I know that Christians do get away from the Lord, some know they are away and feel guilty about returning. Other are away and don't even know it. It is evident by some of the insults found among our postings.

Robert I suppose it depends on what you mean by getting away from the Lord. If you mean not daily following Him then I totally disagree as does scripture (Romans 8:14).

 

[Iconoclast]

The one time the scripture is using the person it is using him as a picture of Israel. In every instance the word is used to speak of a people who had never been saved.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[righteousdude2]

FAL, Again Has a Valid Point!

What can I say? You have a firm, solid grip on the meaning of this verse on the Prodigal. You may not agree with me, or others, but I do believe that you are quite over zealous when it comes to the application of this verse.

And while it is interesting, in how you see and apply it to a nation, all I can say is that you, have not walked down my path, and until such time that you do, you will never be able to grasp, comprehend, and understand the other side of this verse, like I have come to understand and see its application.

The old proverb - "Never criticize another until you've walked a mile in their shoes!" - does fit this battle of semantics. There can be no winner, only losers who may believe you and push further away, out of contempt for your spiritual approach to their position on the path.

As I said before, we'll never know who is right, and I think you have chosen the wrong hill to support, fight, and die on/for.

By that I mean simply that your rigid application of the verse may keep you from being used to rescue those who have gone "Prodigal." In fact, you may be guilty of keeping them from returning.

Long before my first marriage fell apart, I preached with the same conviction as you (on the spiritual application of this verse) about the sin of divorce and remarriage. I refused to BEND, and when I came across those hurting and needing Him, I drove them further into their pit of darkness, and away from their return to His love and acceptance.

Not only did I alienate divorced persons. I refused to re-marry those who came to me for a fresh start on a new marriage. And when remarried couples came to the church I was leading, I demanded they accept my view, repent of past sin, and appear for rebaptism. I'd tell them that for them to be divorced meant they never had the seed of faith firmly planted in their heart, and they needed to start over in their walk with Jesus, as they have in their marriage, in order to be truly saved.

Of course, my rigid view sent them running from my office, never to be seen again, by me!

Little did I know that my own marriage was going to end in ruin! And when it did end in ruin, I believed my own application of that verse so much that it helped to push me on down the prodigal path and away from His love and healing.

Be very careful of what you hold so rigidly, as it may present itself in your own life as a test to your faith, and it could cause you to wander for 15 years in the desert of pride, like me.

Whatever you believe FAL, that is your choice. Just don't judge me, and others who differ from you. We are not what your rigid view has censured us to be. I've been to the mountain top, and I've brought back the truth. Whether you choose to believe me, or not, is something you have to live with.

However, your commendation means nothing to me as I've seen the light, and I know it's power in my life.

I remain your brother, regardless of what you choose to believe. And I hold NO animosity toward you for holding to rigid view, because I once held a similar view so rigid that it blinded me when my own path gave me an unexpected bump and bounce!

Pastor Paul

 

[freeatlast]

What can I say? You have a firm, solid grip on the meaning of this verse on the Prodigal. You may not agree with me, or others, but I do believe that you are quite over zealous when it comes to the application of this verse.

And while it is interesting, in how you see and apply it to a nation, all I can say is that you, have not walked down my path, and until such time that you do, you will never be able to grasp, comprehend, and understand the other side of this verse, like I have come to understand and see its application.

The old proverb - "Never criticize another until you've walked a mile in their shoes!" - does fit this battle of semantics. There can be no winner, only losers who may believe you and push further away, out of contempt for your spiritual approach to their position on the path.

As I said before, we'll never know who is right, and I think you have chosen the wrong hill to support, fight, and die for.

By that I mean simply that your rigid application of the verse may keep you from being used to rescue those who have gone "Prodigal." In fact, you may be guilty of keeping them from returning.

Long before my first marriage fell apart, I preached with the same conviction as you (on the spiritual application of this verse) about the sin of divorce and remarriage. I refused to BEND, and when I came across those hurting and needing Him, I drove them further into their pit of darkness, and away from their return to His love and acceptance.

Not only did I alienate divorced persons. I refused to marry those who came to me for a fresh start on a new marriage. And when remarried couples came to the church I was leading, I demanded they accept my view, repent of past sin, and appear for rebaptism. I'd tell them that for them to be divorced meant they never had the seed of faith firmly planted, and they needed to start over in their walk with Jesus, as they have in their marriage, in order to be truly saved.

Of course, my rigid view sent them running from my office, never to be seen again, by me!

Little did I know that my own marriage was going to end in ruin! And when it did end in ruin, I believed my own application of that verse so much that it helped to push me on down the prodigal path and away from His love and healing.

Be very careful of what you hold so rigidly, as it may present itself in your own life as a test to your faith, and it could cause you to wander for 15 years in the desert of pride, like me.

Whatever you believe FAL, that is your choice. Just don't judge me, and others who differ from you. We are not what your rigid view has censured us to be. I've been to the mountain top, and I've brought back the truth. Whether you choose to believe me, or not, is something you have to live with.

However, your commendation means nothing to me as I've seen the light, and I know it's power in my life.

I remain your brother, regardless of what you choose to believe. And I hold NO animosity toward you for holding to rigid view, because I once held a similar view so rigid that it blinded me when my own path gave me an unexpected bump and bounce!

Pastor Paul

Paul let's say you are correct and I am holding a ridged view and I cause a believer who has, quote "backslidden" unquote to remain in his backslidden condition. Your view they get to go to heaven. So no foul. But if scripture means what it says and my view of believing it is correct then you are helping them remain lost and if they die like that they end up in eternal torment.
My view is, based on scripture, that they are lost, never saved. I go to them in love and give them the truth of the gospel which I believe they did not understand or they would not have turned away from the Lord. I am offering them heaven and you are offering them fellowship. I will admit that the view you hold is the most popular one in today's church and I would hope it correct over mine as it gets a lot more people into heaven then mine, but I cannot get past what scripture says to hold yours.

This old don't judge me thing is as worn out and frankly dangerous and not of the Lord as is like the old racial whining that some use. We are judged by scripture and we are confirmed by scripture and scripture is clear if someone claims to be saved and are not living for the Lord, keeping the commandments, they are according to scripture a liar (1John 2:4).

This is not about condemnation, looking down on someone, this is about truth and what the bible teaches, (instead of what man teaches), that a child of God does not live in (practice) sin. It is impossible! (1John 3:9) It has nothing to do with the shoes we wear or the road we have traveled. It has to do with Who is in us and He that is in us is greater then he who is in the world.

I thank God that He allows those of us who have made false professions to try again and get it right, but once salvation has taken root in the person they are never lost again because the Spirit abides in them and they never return to sinning because the same Spirit abides in them. No exceptions as no temptation has taken us except that which is common to man for God will not allow us to be tempted above what we can endure. backsliding, as it is taught today, for a believer is simply impossible according to scripture.
So certainly I accept you as a brother, just one that is a little confused in this area. For me I do not care how convincing, how sincere or how great a friend the person is in giving a testimony if it contradicts the word of God I reject the testimony and accept what the Lord has left us with according to scripture.

 

[righteousdude2]

No One Wins, BUT You!

I commend your ability to hold strong to your beliefs. However, I have never offered anyone "mere fellowship!" I offer those who I share my testimony with a relationship, not a rigid religion, with the Christ, who died on the cross for all our/their sins.

I have to wonder what your thoughts are on Peter. How many times did he return to the flesh? And he had the one-on-one, personal experience of seeing the works of Jesus in person. However, he "denounced Jesus, three times." He had a long-running feud with Paul, and vice versa. He fell asleep while supposedly being on watch while Jesus prayed. He cut off the ear of a person who was with the soldiers who came to arrest Jesus. He lost his focus, while walking on the raging seas, and may have drowned had it not been for the forgiving love of His Savior.

Granted, in your mind, these were probably infinitesimal slips in his faith, but you'd think that a person who had the blessing of walking with the Savior, tasting the water that had been turned into wine, and helping to serve an endless number of people a fish dinner on the side of the hill, would never have lost sight of the Lord he walked with. Peter sinned, maybe momentarily, but he sinned, and sin is sin. There is no difference in sin. And his renouncement of Jesus was a longer period of time than his minute slip of faith that sent him tumbling into the angry waves. However, the Lord sought him out and brought him back, numerous times.

Are you going to tell me that Peter's faith hadn't taken yet? And if his faith had yet to take, please pin point for me (in Scripture) just when Peter's faith did take firm hold?

You have a good grasp of Scripture, FAL, but I think you really need to loosen up and realize that there is nothing that God can't do. After all He is God, and you, like me, are merely mortal.

And for your information, as I said at the beginning of this post, I've never offered anyone "mere fellowship" with my testimony and in my ministry. I have always, and only offered them "hope" and a road map back to the pathway to eternity (from which they strayed). I'd never want their blood on my hands for false teachings, so please watch where you step when you toss out accusations about my ministry, and the ministry of others on this board.

I did my share of damage as a young pastor; but it was because of my blind and over zealous beliefs on divorce and remarriage. In that case, I have blood on my hands, and for that I have truly repented.

The fact that I was once so zealous caused me to believe in my own words and convictions and that pigeonhole faith did not allow for God to provide for me a way back for nearly fifteen years. That is sad, but, never once (in those 15 years) did I ever doubt that I wasn't saved. I was ashamed of what I did; where I was heading; and spiritually confused as to how to get out. Had it not been for God working in my life to break down MY OWN self taught walls of belief, I don't know where I'd be.

God never, NEVER, forgot about me. I never forgot about Him. It just took me time to get past my own belief system to realize that His grace transcended the worst in me. I may have wandered, but I was always saved, because when I accepted the Lord my name was written in the Lamb's book of life, and when I fell from grace, He did not erase my name, or use "white out" to blot out my place in the Kingdom. He just waited for the right time and place to gently bring me back home.

I thank him for being so loved; and I thank him that you are not in command of the Kingdom and its truths!

I have no doubt that you mean very well, but I know that I know that what He started on Christmas Eve 1966, He continued to nurture and grow, even though my "Prodigal Daze!"

As for you and your harsh interpretation of the His Word, all I can say is, "Enough is enough!" It is time for me to move on, dust off my sandals (in regard to trying to reach your heart of hearts), and proclaim the name of "Icahbod" to any further words, posts or comments you try to offer in explanation of what I believe is an over-zealous belief system.

Please stop trying to convince me that your way is the right, and only way. I am much to experienced in my faith to let your words chink my armor! :wavey:

Pastor Paul :type:

 

[convicted1]

I heard a preacher talk about this on the radio a while back, and I can't recall who it was. (Must've been an arminian!!!) :laugh:

Anyhow, how long does it take you to backslide from your walk with God?

This preacher said it can happen as fast as in 15 minutes.

If you are truly in Christ, He is an anchor of your soul, both sure and stedfast. There are not enough devils to pluck one of His children from His hand. If you are in Christ, you have been founded on THE Rock. So, no one truly born again/born from above, will ever backslide. What I mean by the term "backslide" is to "fall from grace". A CHRISTian can never do this. I will quote Apostle Paul; "I am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto His hands against that day." Amen???

 

[freeatlast]

I commend your ability to hold strong to your beliefs. However, I have never offered anyone "mere fellowship!" I offer those who I share my testimony with a relationship, not a rigid religion, with the Christ, who died on the cross for all our/their sins.

I have to wonder what your thoughts are on Peter. How many times did he return to the flesh? And he had the one-on-one, personal experience of seeing the works of Jesus in person. However, he "denounced Jesus, three times." He had a long-running feud with Paul, and vice versa. He fell asleep while supposedly being on watch while Jesus prayed. He cut off the ear of a person who was with the soldiers who came to arrest Jesus. He lost his focus, while walking on the raging seas, and may have drowned had it not been for the forgiving love of His Savior.

Granted, in your mind, these were probably infinitesimal slips in his faith, but you'd think that a person who had the blessing of walking with the Savior, tasting the water that had been turned into wine, and helping to serve an endless number of people a fish dinner on the side of the hill, would never have lost sight of the Lord he walked with. Peter sinned, maybe momentarily, but he sinned, and sin is sin. There is no difference in sin. And his renouncement of Jesus was a longer period of time than his minute slip of faith that sent him tumbling into the angry waves. However, the Lord sought him out and brought him back, numerous times.

Are you going to tell me that Peter's faith hadn't taken yet? And if his faith had yet to take, please pin point for me (in Scripture) just when Peter's faith did take firm hold?

You have a good grasp of Scripture, FAL, but I think you really need to loosen up and realize that there is nothing that God can't do. After all He is God, and you, like me, are merely mortal.

And for your information, as I said at the beginning of this post, I've never offered anyone "mere fellowship" with my testimony and in my ministry. I have always, and only offered them "hope" and a road map back to the pathway to eternity (from which they strayed). I'd never want their blood on my hands for false teachings, so please watch where you step when you toss out accusations about my ministry, and the ministry of others on this board.

I did my share of damage as a young pastor; but it was because of my blind and over zealous beliefs on divorce and remarriage. In that case, I have blood on my hands, and for that I have truly repented.

The fact that I was once so zealous caused me to believe in my own words and convictions and that pigeonhole faith did not allow for God to provide for me a way back for nearly fifteen years. That is sad, but, never once (in those 15 years) did I ever doubt that I wasn't saved. I was ashamed of what I did; where I was heading; and spiritually confused as to how to get out. Had it not been for God working in my life to break down MY OWN self taught walls of belief, I don't know where I'd be.

God never, NEVER, forgot about me. I never forgot about Him. It just took me time to get past my own belief system to realize that His grace transcended the worst in me. I may have wandered, but I was always saved, because when I accepted the Lord my name was written in the Lamb's book of life, and when I fell from grace, He did not erase my name, or use "white out" to blot out my place in the Kingdom. He just waited for the right time and place to gently bring me back home.

I thank him for being so loved; and I thank him that you are not in command of the Kingdom and its truths!

I have no doubt that you mean very well, but I know that I know that what He started on Christmas Eve 1966, He continued to nurture and grow, even though my "Prodigal Daze!"

As for you and your harsh interpretation of the His Word, all I can say is, "Enough is enough!" It is time for me to move on, dust off my sandals (in regard to trying to reach your heart of hearts), and proclaim the name of "Icahbod" to any further words, posts or comments you try to offer in explanation of what I believe is an over-zealous belief system.

Please stop trying to convince me that your way is the right, and only way. I am much to experienced in my faith to let your words chink my armor! :wavey:

Pastor Paul :type:

You are beating a dead horse. When you use Peter it has to be noted that he did not live like that as in an on going life style. Peter would sin, get rebuked and repent. That is just like it is now in any Christian and keep in mind it was not a daily thing for Peter based on scripture. He never quote "turned from the Lord" unquote as some try to say is possible for a believer.
Second in dealing with Peter you have to remember that the Spirit had not yet been given as all that happened was still under the OT. The church is totally different because of the indwelling spirit. There was never a time when Peter "left the Lord" and live in sin as some describe they have done today. It is not possible for a believer and if you do not believe that just try it and see. Even thinking about it causes a believer to cringe much less being able to carry it out. We are kept saved daily and we are kept from returning to sinning as a practice daily. 1John 3

As to how you want to believe that is your business, but I am simply stating scripture and you are stating personal belief.

 

[freeatlast]

If you are truly in Christ, He is an anchor of your soul, both sure and stedfast. There are not enough devils to pluck one of His children from His hand. If you are in Christ, you have been founded on THE Rock. So, no one truly born again/born from above, will ever backslide. What I mean by the term "backslide" is to "fall from grace". A CHRISTian can never do this. I will quote Apostle Paul; "I am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto His hands against that day." Amen???

AMEN!:thumbs: