How Long Does it Take You to Backslide?

[preacher4truth]

If you are truly in Christ, He is an anchor of your soul, both sure and stedfast. There are not enough devils to pluck one of His children from His hand. If you are in Christ, you have been founded on THE Rock. So, no one truly born again/born from above, will ever backslide. What I mean by the term "backslide" is to "fall from grace". A CHRISTian can never do this. I will quote Apostle Paul; "I am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto His hands against that day." Amen???

That's good. This isn't meant as a fall from grace.

- Peace

 

[preacher4truth]

The Gal. passage is not speaking about restoration to God. Also it is speaking about any single sin, not a lifestyle of sin. It is speaking about restoration in the fellowship. We cannot restore someone else to God.

It is talking about "restoration to God." Which is what is taking place when one is restored to fellowhip. You said no believer ever needs restored? Not true, the Scriptures prove otherwise. So, in the useage of the biblical word here in 6:1, we certainly can restore a brother to God. God uses His people to do so. It is to completely mend and repair, and is to be done with gentleness by the spiritual. To be honest, I see none of this coming from your attitude on here, instead, I see a very caustic rough spirit.

Anyhow, you're incorrect again.

You're also incorrect that carnal is never attatched to "moral sins." Another error of your teachings. I've also shown you this.

 

[freeatlast]

It is talking about "restoration to God." Which is what is taking place when one is restored to fellowhip. You said no believer ever needs restored? Not true, the Scriptures prove otherwise. So, in the useage of the biblical word here in 6:1, we certainly can restore a brother to God. God uses His people to do so. It is to completely mend and repair, and is to be done with gentleness by the spiritual. To be honest, I see none of this coming from your attitude on here, instead, I see a very caustic rough spirit.

Anyhow, you're incorrect again.

You're also incorrect that carnal is never attatched to "moral sins." Another error of your teachings. I've also shown you this.

Thank you for your thoughts. I still hold that we cannot restore someone else to the Lord as a Christian can never leave the Lord. The restoring is to fellowship. The relationship to God never stops for a believer even when we sin. In fact for the believer the relationship intensifies where sin is involved although not in a pleasant manner.
However that passage is not dealing with what is termed today as backsliding as backsliding cannot happen in a Christian based on scripture. 1John 3

 

[preacher4truth]

Thank you for your thoughts. I still hold that we cannot restore someone else to the Lord as a Christian can never leave the Lord. The restoring is to fellowship. The relationship to God never stops for a believer even when we sin. In fact for the believer the relationship intensifies where sin is involved although not in a pleasant manner.
However that passage is not dealing with what is termed today as backsliding as backsliding cannot happen in a Christian based on scripture. 1John 3

You have partial truth here and you're attempting to add more meaning to defend your thoughts.

You said believers never need to be restored. They do contrary to what you think Gerald. Your understanding of "restored" needs to be enhanced. Perhaps in so doing you will be more gracious to Christians who've sinned, blown it, gotten away from God &c?

Let's consider one other thing: Pastors, others, hate this idea of persons getting into sin, having a struggle, and before all others coming to the altar to start afresh again? But wait a minute, isn't that exactly what we ourselves are doing, too, when we come to Him and confess on a daily basis? Instead of teaching them how to fight sin, confess, retain fellowship, we beat them up over what they do, mock that they've "rededicated" when in fact we do the same thing on many levels. This is so ingracious!

Who said backsliding is "leaving the Lord?" As I stated, I am not talking apostatizing. So, what is this "leaving the Lord" that you've coined here? What does that mean?

And, how many sins does it take to leave the Holy, perfect God? 12? 16? 1? How many times a day would you say you sin? Lots?

Have you ever prayed, "God, shwo me my sin?" and it was like a broken record of things you never considered?

Of course the relationship never stops. That's a given. But the fellowship can be broken, and restoring one is bringing back into fellowship. By the way, the "one" being restored (Galatians 6:1) had been living in sin, for what else could it have been, yet there is nothing about being saved here. Thus, this one had "slid back" from God. And real believers can fall into a sinful lifestyle.

As RD2 says, he got away from God in sin, and his coming back to God proves he was His all along. That you want to condemn and call to question his testimony is very lacking in grace for one who comes across as living above others due to your own convictions. However, I think you're showing otherwise, and I say this in love and truth; The rubber meets the road in how we treat others with grace, not in brow-beating a brother over beliefs we hold to. That shows who we truly are, and that our zeal needs to be tempered with grace, reflecting how much He has forgiven us.

I bet Jesus was glad over this lamb that came back to the fold, even so more than the 99 that were already there. You however seem not just a little upset over it and want to call his salvation into question. There is no need for that. Why not welcome a brother back to the fold as Jesus would?

We sin, all of us, daily, and that could be construed practicing sin. Thus, 1 John needs to be understood more clearly. You also sin daily.

 

[JesusFan]

Thank you for your thoughts. I still hold that we cannot restore someone else to the Lord as a Christian can never leave the Lord. The restoring is to fellowship. The relationship to God never stops for a believer even when we sin. In fact for the believer the relationship intensifies where sin is involved although not in a pleasant manner.
However that passage is not dealing with what is termed today as backsliding as backsliding cannot happen in a Christian based on scripture. 1John 3

Since per the Bible, all "real" believers in jesus are kept by power of God unto salvation, that the HS Himself has been sealed in us in orderto guarentee that God will one day fully redeem us...

A Christian will sin, at times badly, but the Lord will forgive and restore back his own...

NOT relationship to God, that is eternal and secure, but fully restore back our ability to 'enjoy" it, to be abundant in licing it

Do you deny either Christian s do not sin if genuine, or deny that they cannot have "besitting sins?"

 

[freeatlast]

You have partial truth here and you're attempting to add more meaning to defend your thoughts.

You said believers never need to be restored. They do contrary to what you think Gerald. Your understanding of "restored" needs to be enhanced. Perhaps in so doing you will be more gracious to Christians who've sinned, blown it, gotten away from God &c?

Let's consider one other thing: Pastors, others, hate this idea of persons getting into sin, having a struggle, and before all others coming to the altar to start afresh again? But wait a minute, isn't that exactly what we ourselves are doing, too, when we come to Him and confess on a daily basis? Instead of teaching them how to fight sin, confess, retain fellowship, we beat them up over what they do, mock that they've "rededicated" when in fact we do the same thing on many levels. This is so ingracious!

Who said backsliding is "leaving the Lord?" As I stated, I am not talking apostatizing. So, what is this "leaving the Lord" that you've coined here? What does that mean?

And, how many sins does it take to leave the Holy, perfect God? 12? 16? 1? How many times a day would you say you sin? Lots?

Have you ever prayed, "God, shwo me my sin?" and it was like a broken record of things you never considered?

Of course the relationship never stops. That's a given. But the fellowship can be broken, and restoring one is bringing back into fellowship. By the way, the "one" being restored (Galatians 6:1) had been living in sin, for what else could it have been, yet there is nothing about being saved here. Thus, this one had "slid back" from God. And real believers can fall into a sinful lifestyle.

As RD2 says, he got away from God in sin, and his coming back to God proves he was His all along. That you want to condemn and call to question his testimony is very lacking in grace for one who comes across as living above others due to your own convictions. However, I think you're showing otherwise, and I say this in love and truth; The rubber meets the road in how we treat others with grace, not in brow-beating a brother over beliefs we hold to. That shows who we truly are, and that our zeal needs to be tempered with grace, reflecting how much He has forgiven us.

I bet Jesus was glad over this lamb that came back to the fold, even so more than the 99 that were already there. You however seem not just a little upset over it and want to call his salvation into question. There is no need for that. Why not welcome a brother back to the fold as Jesus would?

We sin, all of us, daily, and that could be construed practicing sin. Thus, 1 John needs to be understood more clearly. You also sin daily.

If you will set your heart on the Lord and you will not be sinning a lot daily. In fact there will be days you make it through without sinning. No true believer departs from the Lord even for a little while. Nor do they return to practice sin. 1John 3.
You referred to the lamb. Jesus said this;
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
The lamb was lost and returned unto salvation. No person who is saved leaves the Lord or gets away from Him. In ever example in scripture those who depart are lost.

 

[freeatlast]

Since per the Bible, all "real" believers in jesus are kept by power of God unto salvation, that the HS Himself has been sealed in us in orderto guarentee that God will one day fully redeem us...

A Christian will sin, at times badly, but the Lord will forgive and restore back his own...

NOT relationship to God, that is eternal and secure, but fully restore back our ability to 'enjoy" it, to be abundant in licing it

Do you deny either Christian s do not sin if genuine, or deny that they cannot have "besitting sins?"

I am not totally understanding your question because of how it was worded, but I will try and give an answer.
At salvation sin is still very alive in the new believer and there is an enormous battle for most depending on the degree of depravity that they previously lived under, but the true believer wages that battle. As they now seek to live a holy life they will from time to time sin. As their walk matures the sin will become less frequent. As they grow they can even experience days of walking with the Lord when they have no sin on their conscience. This is all brought about by the working of the Spirit as the believer surrenders to His leading.
There will also be those who make a profession but with no reality and while they may seem to walk with the Lord for a time they fall away back into old habits of sin. According to 1John they are lost. Both 1John 2 and 3 make that clear as it is impossible for a Christian to return to sinning because they have the Spirit abiding in them.

 

[Shannon_loves_Jesus]

LOL, you're funny.

And by the way, I signed up, and I wanted the screen name "Jesus Fan," but it looks like you already had it )... I wasn't looking for you. I just happened to find you on this questioner form that asked how long it takes you to backslide.

Hope you and your wife have a lovely weekend,

Funny post,

Shannon
From Nashville, Tennessee

 

[preacher4truth]

If you will set your heart on the Lord and you will not be sinning a lot daily. In fact there will be days you make it through without sinning. No true believer departs from the Lord even for a little while. Nor do they return to practice sin. 1John 3.
You referred to the lamb. Jesus said this;
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
The lamb was lost and returned unto salvation. No person who is saved leaves the Lord or gets away from Him. In ever example in scripture those who depart are lost.

No, I can't recall a day in my life since being saved I haven't sinned in thought, word, deed, omission, with words, or eyes, in some form or another. But I do know that when I am walking close to Him those sins are confessed immediately, and some days my fight for personal holiness is stronger than at other times. So are the seasons of life.

David sinned, and got far away from God, yet he was still saved. According to some preachers, they'd take him and ridicule him for it, and mock his salvation. You need to read Psalm 51 sometime and see that he came back to the Lord.

Also this:

For evils beyond number have surrounded me;
My iniquities have overtaken me, so that I am not able to see;
They are more numerous than the hairs of my head,
And my heart has failed me.
Be pleased, O Lord to deliver me;
Make haste, O Lord to help me.
Let those be ashamed and humiliated together
Who seek my life to destroy it;
Let those be turned back and dishonored
Who delight in my hurt.
Let those be appalled because of their shame
Who say to me, "Aha, aha!"

- Psalm 40:12-15

We see here David in deep sin, and he being mocked by those around him. They sound like some preachers I know, mocking him, laying charge to him, to no avail, he still knows the Lord. This is unfortunately how preachers and Christians treat others if they are in sin, as though they are lost. It's pride and haughtiness, and to me it shows a superficial understanding of a persons walk with God and its many facets, from victory, to valleys, triumphs, and failures, all teaching us to yet trust Him, sometimes breaking us, making us feel unworthy, making us stronger. And each persons journey is different.

Now; you go from getting away from the Lord to departing? I see, we change terms to prove ourselves correct? Or to direct it more towards our definition? Let's stay on what I've actually stated, OK?

Back to what I've said; believers get away from the Lord, you included.

"Draw near to God and He will draw near to you." James 4:8

Not much needs to be said here to show that we can get away from Him.

You've given yourself back to fellowship and restoration probably many times. No need to belittle others who "rededicate," after all, if we are their Pastor, and this happens, and we hate it, then it's our own fault for not teaching them and counselling them differently.

But they are really only doing what you do when you get away from God; that is, seeking restoration, giving themselves again afresh, praying for forgiveness in desire to walk with Him. No need to assume they need to be saved, I'm sure you don't asssume you need to whenever you stumble (sin) or need to confess your sin, and start off with Him afresh. Let's extend the same grace we extend to ourselves to those we think are weaker sheep. :thumbsup:

I say this in kindness, but looking at how you've handled me with your innuendos, and also a repentant brother sharing his testimony in this thread, you need to grow in grace Gerald, and I admit so do I.

If you want to turn this to apostatizing again, that's up to you. The fact is, believers slide back. You've done it yourself. We probably agree that no true believer would apostatize, which is to abandon the faith altogether.

- Peace

 

[freeatlast]

No, I can't recall a day in my life since being saved I haven't sinned in thought, word, deed, omission, with words, or eyes, in some form or another.

That is too bad, as all sin is a choice and can be overcome and you have no idea the blessing you are missing to come to the end of the day and think back over it and find that you have not sinned against your Lord, but sadly I think you are with the majority of the church today. :tear:
[This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh

 

[preacher4truth]

That is too bad, as all sin is a choice and can be overcome and you have no idea the blessing you are missing to come to the end of the day and think back over it and find that you have not sinned against your Lord, but sadly I think you are with the majority of the church today. :tear:
[This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh

Some of us are more sensitive to our own faults than others, but I will say this, that my walk with God has been a blessing.

I don't come to the end of my day and find that I have been perfect and not had missed the mark at least somewhere. I may have thought I had, until I go to prayer. I have however, been walking with God, and been tempted and win against it through Him, or I fail, and have thought that bad thought, or committed whatever sin it is, pleaded guilty, asked for immediate forgiveness, stayed sanctified, and at the end of the day, thanked Him. To come to the end perfect without sin, no, and to think that I had, well, I just fell into pride right then, and I'd need to repent of that.

Here is the walk summarized;

"...but if we walk in the light, as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin." 1 John 1:7

Still, in this walk, and context, look here:

"If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8

In this walk we do this:

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9

Note, the person is walking with God, yet sins, but is cleansed, and never says "I have no sin" even when walking with God, because the context is conveying a person that walks with God isn't going to say this against the truth. The same one walking confesses his sin, as he is walking with God.

That's how my walk with God is. It's according to Scripture. So no, I'll pass on saying that in walking with Him I don't sin. That wouldn't be truth on account of the Biblical testimony.

- Peace

 

[Shannon_loves_Jesus]

Free@Last,

I'm really glad that I came across your post. The one you conversing with Preacher4truth regarding being truly saved or not (if I'm understanding the post correctly). I read the post between you two numerous times as I have struggled with some thoughts on my salvation from the past.

Let me explain....

When I was seven years old, I can remember having communion one even at my church. My mother told me that non-Christians could not partake in the communion and only Christians could partake in it. I then asked her what a Christian was, and she told me about the gospel and salvation. That night, in my bathroom all alone, I got down on my hands and knees and prayed as a child would. "Dear God, please come into my heart and forgive me of my sins. I'm sorry for sinning. Please, come in my heart and make me a Christian. I want to go to Heaven." I don't know if those were my exact words, but I'm trying to give you an idea of how I thought and what I asked. In the exact words, obviously I can't remember, but I remember the just of it.

So, from age 7 (1984 or 1985) I, what I thought "became a Christian." Well, I couldn't stand going to a Christian school, always wanted to go to a public school, and I didn't always like going to church growing up. I wanted to stay at home, be lazy, play as a child, or hang out with friends as a teenager. I don't remember having a strong desire wanting to have a personal relationship with Christ. I don't remember having a burning desire to fellowship with other believers, nor read my Bible. If anything, I kind of fought against reading the Bible and going to church. Part of that, I think might have to do with strict discipline, upbringing, a strict legalistic Christian Baptist school that I went to. The Christian school that I attended would hang out, outside of the mall, outside of the movie theater, outside of the skating rink, and watch to see if any of there students went to those places or wore the wrong thing. I can remember going to those places in pants or shorts on the weekends, and then going to school on Monday, and my teachers grabbing me by the arm, pulling me to the side and saying.....

"Does your mommy not care if you wear pants or shorts?"

"I saw your mom drop you off at the movie theater. What did you watch?" If I told her a g rated movie or a cartoon she would say, "Don't you know that the money for the good movies can sometimes go to towards the bad movies?"

"I saw your mom drop you off at the skating rink. There's bad music there. Your mom doesn't care that you listen to rock music? She doesn't mind you going by yourself?"

Looking back I think, "Well, obviously she didn't care because she let me." Well, of course, I was not disrespectful and tell that that.

The reason I shared all of that with you regarding my upbringing is because I wanted you to have an idea of the upbringing I had after I, as a child would put, "asked God to come into my heart and forgive me of my sins."

Well, sometimes I just wonder... From 1984-85 until 2004 I always called myself a Christian. I would tell anyone who asked that I got saved at age 7 in my bathroom after church one Sunday evening. BUT, if you looked at my lifestyle it did not look like I was a Christian.

In 2004, I had hit rock bottom in many different areas. I went back to church for the first time in an extremely long time. The only time I would attend church is when I went to visit mom and dad in Alabama, and I would go to church with them then (usually on holidays). After I went through a lot of heartaches and bad experiences, I turned to God. I remember crying out to Him, praying, being angry, confused, and I ended up going back to church. After the fifth time going to church (5 consecutive Sundays), I went forward during the benediction and asked Christ to come into my life, to forgive me of all my sings, to allow the Holy Spirit to take over my life and help me be more Christ-like and change my old ways. I remember leaving church crying. I cried for hours. I remember calling my parents and telling them about it, and they cried. I had been away from church for so long.

Now, when I rededicated my life in 2004, I did not miraculously do a 360 in changing my ways. Yes, there were changes, but not 100% perfect. Now, as the years went by I started getting more involved in church. For a while I just attended church service, then I started just attending service and Sunday school, then I added Bible Study to it, then I added getting involved in activities. Then, I added starting reading my Bible daily, and then I started having daily and numerous daily prayers, then I started really paying close attention who my associates were and who I associated with on a personal basis.

Right now, I'm very close to God in that I pray daily, numerous times throughout the day, read my Bible daily, attend church service weekly, participate in Bible study, and as many church activities as I can (depends on work)..... I love God so much right now, and I want to be a better Christian, more Christ-like. I want to live for Him, and now I want to please Him more than ever.

SO, HERE ARE MY QUESTIONS..... I have a hard time with this... I'm trying to figure out how to word them...

1.) Do you think I was really saved at age 7?
2.) Was I saved at age 7, but I just backslid, really bad for a long time and then came back to Christ in 2004 when I rededicated my life?
3.) Or, was I not really saved at age 7? Did I just think I was saved but really wasn't. Especially, since I was so far away from God for so long?
4.) When I rededicated my life or became a new/1st time true believer in 2004 how come I did not do a complete 360 in my old ways? For me, it was gradual, every year it became more and more that I wanted to live for Christ and change. I think part of this was the involvement in church, involvement with other believers, praying, and reading God's Word.

I've met some people who said that they did a complete 360 the moment that they got Saved and have been that same way every since. My experience was not that way.

What are your thoughts? I'm sorry for the long post.

burning questions I have..


Shannon
From Nashville, Tennessee
New Member - 1st day today )

 

[freeatlast]

Some of us are more sensitive to our own faults than others, but I will say this, that my walk with God has been a blessing.

I don't come to the end of my day and find that I have been perfect and not had missed the mark at least somewhere. I may have thought I had, until I go to prayer. I have however, been walking with God, and been tempted and win against it through Him, or I fail, and have thought that bad thought, or committed whatever sin it is, pleaded guilty, asked for immediate forgiveness, stayed sanctified, and at the end of the day, thanked Him. To come to the end perfect without sin, no, and to think that I had, well, I just fell into pride right then, and I'd need to repent of that.

Here is the walk summarized;

"...but if we walk in the light, as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin." 1 John 1:7

Still, in this walk, and context, look here:

"If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8

In this walk we do this:

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9

Note, the person is walking with God, yet sins, but is cleansed, and never says "I have no sin" even when walking with God, because the context is conveying a person that walks with God isn't going to say this against the truth. The same one walking confesses his sin, as he is walking with God.

That's how my walk with God is. It's according to Scripture. So no, I'll pass on saying that in walking with Him I don't sin. That wouldn't be truth on account of the Biblical testimony.

- Peace

Many today have found a loop hole, so to speak, to excuse their sin. For some they claim how inperfect they are (no one is perfect) and want to make the claim for everyone else also. I suppose that might bring some comfort. For others it is the knowlede that they can be forgiven if they just confess their sin, but that becomes dangerous as confession does not mean to simply admitt it. And for others perhaps a closer walk is simply not desired as they have found comfort where they are at.
These do this instead of accepting that all sin is a choice and that it can be overcome. I guess it is easier to just sin so grace might abound. Certainly God's grace is great and we all need it or no one would be saved.
However for those who seek a closer walk, a blessing that cannot be described, and a peace that surpasses understanding all they have to do is turn to the Lord and do as He says.
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].
[This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

However all this is very off topic and to deal with the topisc no Christian backslides from a biblical standpoint as it is impossible to retun to snning. 1John 3

 

[JesusFan]

That is too bad, as all sin is a choice and can be overcome and you have no idea the blessing you are missing to come to the end of the day and think back over it and find that you have not sinned against your Lord, but sadly I think you are with the majority of the church today. :tear:
[This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh

IF the Christian cannot be able to sin , even persisitant for a time, WHY all of
admonisitions in scripture to abide in Christ, walk in the Spirit, restore one who is sinning back to the Lord, etc?

A believer in Christ always has the option to disobey God and Sin , BUT he also had the means through powe rof the Holy Spirit NOT to yield to the tempation to sin... he can have victory over any sin IF willing to confess repent forsake etc in the power of HS dwelling within him...

basically, either your flesh/sinful nature stays in control, or you reckon yourself dead to it, alive in Christ, empowered by the Holy Spirit!

NOT black and White here...

Christians will have Godlry repentance and come back to Lord, just some might well get into "Pig pen" nefore that

Non Christians have worldly repentance and stay in the Mud!

 

[preacher4truth]

Many today have found a loop hole, so to speak, to excuse their sin. For some they claim how inperfect they are (no one is perfect) and want to make the claim for everyone else also. I suppose that might bring some comfort. For others it is the knowlede that they can be forgiven if they just confess their sin, but that becomes dangerous as confession does not mean to simply admitt it. And for others perhaps a closer walk is simply not desired as they have found comfort where they are at.
These do this instead of accepting that all sin is a choice and that it can be overcome. I guess it is easier to just sin so grace might abound. Certainly God's grace is great and we all need it or no one would be saved.
However for those who seek a closer walk, a blessing that cannot be described, and a peace that surpasses understanding all they have to do is turn to the Lord and do as He says.
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].
[This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

However all this is very off topic and to deal with the topisc no Christian backslides from a biblical standpoint as it is impossible to retun to snning. 1John 3

I gave you a precise description of a walk, the Scriptural walk. I see you disagree with this passage.

No one is looking for an excuse to sin, no need to paint me or anyone that way so you can tirade about it on a Sunday or to others. It's just simply not true. Now maybe you meant yourself in that? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you humbly mean yourself.

I won't say "I have no sin" in my walk. That would be lying against the truth.

I use 1 Cor. 10:13 in my walk. It doesn't undo the truth of 1 John I gave you.

- Peace

 

[preacher4truth]

IF the Christian cannot be able to sin , even persisitant for a time, WHY all of
admonisitions in scripture to abide in Christ, walk in the Spirit, restore one who is sinning back to the Lord, etc?

A believer in Christ always has the option to disobey God and Sin , BUT he also had the means through powe rof the Holy Spirit NOT to yield to the tempation to sin... he can have victory over any sin IF willing to confess repent forsake etc in the power of HS dwelling within him...

basically, either your flesh/sinful nature stays in control, or you reckon yourself dead to it, alive in Christ, empowered by the Holy Spirit!

NOT black and White here...

Christians will have Godlry repentance and come back to Lord, just some might well get into "Pig pen" nefore that

Non Christians have worldly repentance and stay in the Mud!

People with this belief generally beat people over the head about each and every sin with 1 John, typically hoping to hold them as lost, and have control over them. This is toxic Christianity.

Paul talked of the struggle, and that he cannot do the things that he would.

I gave him more than adequate proof of Davis life. His rebuttal? His own words, never addressing the Scriptures I give.

He also won't answer how he is incorrect about carnal not being tied to moral sin. I proved that also to be incorrect, and he's been hushed about that since, too.

We won't be without sin until we get there, and I don't believe a soul on earth goes a day w/o sin. I believe this disagrees with an honest forthright walk with God. 1 John 1 shows this to be true. :thumbsup:

I mean, you can honestly look back on a whole day and had never sinned? Yeah, right.

Knowing the mind of man, I know this untrue.

Now, can a believer go a day and have all sin confessed, and be sanctified? Absolutely. But that's a different thing there altogether than not sinning once.

- Peace

 

[freeatlast]

Free@Last,

I'm really glad that I came across your post. The one you conversing with Preacher4truth regarding being truly saved or not (if I'm understanding the post correctly). I read the post between you two numerous times as I have struggled with some thoughts on my salvation from the past.


Shannon
From Nashville, Tennessee
New Member - 1st day today )

Hello Shannon,
it is good to meet you and praise God for your testimony. I am deeply sorry that you had to suffer with legalistic values. Sometimes parents just want their children saved so bad that they lose sight of the spirit of the law and grasp hold of the letter. That can leave a very bitter taste on someone's heart. However the opposite is also true and they end up with children that think they can be saved and continue to live like the world. Both are costly.

As to your questions rather then me going through them one by one let me try and answer you from the bible instead of using what most try and teach today. First I really think you are caught up way too much as to when you got saved.
I realize that when someone stands and gives a testimony and says on such a date they got saved and then others can point to a certain date that unless we can do the same satan uses that to bring doubt about when or if we are saved. By the way I cannot put an exact date on my salvation. I question even the year much less the month and day. And with anyone who is really saved there can and usually is doubts about if we are saved.
The great thing about it though is that God wants us to know. He wants us to live without doubting and so He has given us a way to know and today I can tell you without any doubt I am saved and it is the same for everyone else including yuo knowing when within reason it happened.
Here is what scripture says;
1John 2:3-5 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him
But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.


I need to explain the word "keep" in those passages. The Greek word was a word that was used by those who sailed the seas. They were called star keepers or keepers of the stars. Back then they did not have GPS or any of the navigation tools we have today to steer the ships. They had to rely on the stars. These men trusted their life to the stars and kept diligent watch on them. They did not take them lightly, nor decide to just take a chance and do it their way. They steered their ships by the stars so they kept the stars. Sometimes there was storms and they got off course, but their hearts were pining for the storm to end and the clouds to clear so they could be sure they were on course.
The same is with a real Christian. They keep the commandments. It is not about sinless perfection. It is however about what we are setting our hearts on to guide our lives. We are commandment keepers. Like those who steered their ships sometimes they got off course for a short time, but even in the storm they were looking for a clearing so they could return to the path they desired to follow.
In any Christian's life there may be some clouds or storms and they do not see as clearly as they might like, but in their heart they are seeking to know the will of the Father for their lives. That desire even in the mist of trouble is what keeps them seeking until they are brought to a clear understanding of what the Lord desires of them, but they will continue to walk in what they do know. An unbeliever will not have this desire when the storms come. They will fall further away and walk in sin. Some will still be saved at a later date, but many will continue to walk their own way instead of turning to the Lord.
Keep in mind that no one ever gets saved by a prayer of faith. salvation comes when we come to repentance towards God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. It is the same for you, me and everyone. There is no exceptions. Also from the point of salvation we never again practice sin. 1John 3:9
We may sin in any given moment but we also confess and seek to not do it again. Some sins may take literally years to overcome, but we continue on seeking to overcome our sins as the true believer is not like the hog which wallows in this mire and loves it, but we are sheep that cannot stand a single spot turning to our Lord to wash us clean as we seek to stay out of the mire.
So instead of me answering you let the word of God give you the answers you seek through the Spirit. When did your heart start to burn to live unto the Lord and it was seen in your seeking to obey all that He has given. According to scripture that was when you were saved as no unbeliever can have that heart. God wants the inside changed and then the outside will be made clean also.
Shannon I hope i have been able to answer you in accord with the teachings of the Lord. Do not allow anyone to tell you anything different then what scripture says about this and may i say with the Spirit;
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Faithful [is] he that calleth you, who also will do [it].
God bless.
P.S. Shannon if you still have question I would point you here http://www.gerald285.com/index.php?p=1_5_Salvation-Tests
There are three messages and if you listen to them you will know.

 

[freeatlast]

IF the Christian cannot be able to sin , even persisitant for a time, WHY all of
admonisitions in scripture to abide in Christ, walk in the Spirit, restore one who is sinning back to the Lord, etc?

A believer in Christ always has the option to disobey God and Sin , BUT he also had the means through powe rof the Holy Spirit NOT to yield to the tempation to sin... he can have victory over any sin IF willing to confess repent forsake etc in the power of HS dwelling within him...

basically, either your flesh/sinful nature stays in control, or you reckon yourself dead to it, alive in Christ, empowered by the Holy Spirit!

NOT black and White here...

Christians will have Godlry repentance and come back to Lord, just some might well get into "Pig pen" nefore that

Non Christians have worldly repentance and stay in the Mud!

"IF the Christian cannot be able to sin , even persisitant for a time, WHY all of admonisitions in scripture to abide in Christ, walk in the Spirit, restore one who is sinning back to the Lord, etc?"

Those passages you are referring to are not speaking about a Christian who is living in sin or even could do so. They are calling us to, this is going to be difficult, NO SIN.
The Spirit never convicts to do our best and just ask forgiveness, He calls us to perfection even as our Lord and allows forgiveness when we fail, but the call is to live without sin. Can anyone do it. Yes I believe we all can otherwise there is no need to convict every time we sin, other wise just let us confess and go on.
However here is a way to tell what is in our hearts. The bible teaches that our hearts are wicked and we cannot even know our own hearts. I know that is true because of the times I have done things and then wonder how I could have done such a thing. My heart told me I was better then I was. It lied to me. So if we look at what we do on a daily bases we can see the truth about our hearts. we can see just how much or how little we really love the Lord by looking at our own walk.

I understand what you are saying above as that is standard teaching in the church today, but it is not biblical since it simply does not agree with scripture. 1John 3:9. No one who is born of God practices sin abd that includes for a short time as that would still be practicing sin. The passage is not a time passage. it is a character passage because of who lives in us. So no, a real Christian cannot backslide as the term is taught today.

 

[righteousdude2]

Ichabod....

I am simply stating scripture and you are stating personal belief.

No you are not being honest FAL! You are stating your personal belief about that Scripture, and that is why I proclaim Ichabod on your teachings :tear::tear::tear: :type:

 

[freeatlast]

No you are not being honest FAL! You are stating your personal belief about that Scripture, and that is why I proclaim Ichabod on your teachings :tear::tear::tear: :type:

That is fine. I am confident in the scripture to mean what it says. No one who is born again returns to sinning. 1John 3:9