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How should christians treat the saved homosexual?

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Matt22:37-39

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Yasua1 wrote
Think the question is IF a homosexual person, male or female, claims to be a Chrsitian, yet keeps on living in sin as before, one should really question that claim to being saved, for IF a Chrsitian, the HS in them would be screaming to the heavens to repent and forsake that lifestyle!

to me, 3 choices on this:

Person saved, redeemed out from that lifestyle, to glory of god!
saved, still struggling/tempted, perhaps even sinning at times, but do know that its wrong and earnestly seeking to be set free
Claims to be saved, no regrent/remorse/repenting over lifestyle, business as usual!

:thumbsup:
 

Matt22:37-39

New Member
So anything, any subject, that disagrees with gotquestions, must be wrong?

Ma'am, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't call me "baby" or other such terms. Has nothing to do with biblical or legalistic issues, although one could make an argument for it; has to do with, I'm happily married, and my wife doesn't appreciate unknown women referring to me by pet names. I respect her enough that I don't allow it. Thanks.

IDK, they've answered 400,000 questions....and so far they like I do not contradict themselves....there is a criteria for studying God's word...it is called HERMENEUTICS....balance of God's nature is the foundation...so far whenever I post anything from them NO ONE ever disagrees...how can you it's God's word

"On The Right Track Baby"....is a phrase in the song...BORN THIS WAY lol...tongue and cheek
 

annsni

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
again you keep proving that your comprehension skills are off....I clearly said in the below that it is our job to BRING this type of person to God the way God would want us to and that isn't by judging and condemning them but through love like we would anyone else (or some of us anyway would) I also said once they are saved they may still struggle with sin and like any other saved person we need to help them DRAW CLOSER to God so He can fix them not us...even if they are practicing their sin it is our job to minister to them.


Here maybe you should read it again

HOW SHOULD CHRISTIANS TREAT THE SAVED HOMOSEXUAL?
This has been an ongoing discussion on a "Christian" forum so my response was this...

Many on here feel a homosexual can NOT be saved if they still have sex with the same sex...not sure why a heterosexual gets away with having sex outside of marriage and committing adultery etc. but the homosexual doesn't...so this is what I have to say to those who don't get it.

The problem I think many are having is they are LOOKING at the outward rather than the inward..."Man looks at the outward appearance, but God looks at the heart"...1 Sam 16:7....We live in a FALLEN WORLD do you agree?

And since we live in a fallen world stuff happens...people are born with all kind of physical and mental ailments....some are born with NO attraction to anyone (the act of sex comes after attraction) some people are born with both sexes, some are born legitimately feeling from a very early age like 2 that they were born in the wrong body, some are born attracted to the same sex...never once having an attraction to the opposite sex...and some are attracted to both sexes...and for most this is a TRUTH that is with them for life.

Now when a person gets saved no matter WHO they are, they will always have SOME SIN they have to deal with, that is just part of our sinful human nature that Paul says in Romans 7 that we struggle with...my sins/s and struggles may not be the same as yours or others, but never the less they are NO DIFFERENT IN GOD'S EYES...for to Him all sin is wrong and is why the SINLESS JESUS became SIN for us. 2 Cor 5:21

Now think about it...lets take any of our sins and compare them to the homosexual...now how many times are we FORGIVEN when we KEEP screwing up in our sin nature and hurt God? ALL THE TIME, Matt 18:22....cause the bibles says "all our sins are forgiven past, present and future...they were nailed on the cross" Romans 8:1-2 and more. We sin more often than we want to admit, let's not forget sins of OMISSION...so why are the Homosexual Christians EXCLUDED from having the same problem?...and no I am not condoning their sin or lifestyle, but what we need to understand is what the bible is talking about....we need to separate the NON Christians from the saved Christians and even go further to separate the MATURE Christian from the WEAK one. Romans 14....Look at it as a SCALE from 0.................100....we will put SATAN on the 0 end...and GOD at the 100 end.

0 being a NON BELIEVER HOMOSEXUAL....this person is condemned no matter what he does good or bad.

50 the middle would be the BELIEVER a saved person, could be a homosexual (meaning someone who only is attracted to the same sex)...not of his works but Christ work on the cross.

100 Being a homosexual Christian who is "sold out" for God and his walk is so close to God that he ONLY desires God's will and not his own....that in all he does he desires to love and honor and obey God...so he CHOOSES to not have sex with the same sex, much less sex outside of marriage at all!...for their husband and all is God.

This is God''s desire for ALL who know Him...no matter what sin we struggle with....to be on the 100 side of the scale.

So you will have homosexuals at all ends of the scale all depending on their WALK WITH GOD! and it isn't for me to say what that walk is, and whether they are saved or not, as we all have a RACE to run that is different than everyone else s. My race is not your race nor yours mine or ours others.

My job and your job is to HELP THAT HOMOSEXUAL no matter which side of the scale they are on to DRAW CLOSER TO GOD through love, accountability (within the church only) acceptance, respect, prayer, guidance etc...so His desires become theirs...this we should do for everyone no matter what sin they struggle with....that is what He wants for all us sinners.

Hope that helps...♥

Was I replying to you? I don't think so. Yes, we need to show them the Gospel - preach the Gospel constantly. You miss in your quoted piece that we are to help the homosexual draw closer to God through ACCOUNTABILITY...PRAYER.....GUIDANCE. We do not ignore it, embrace it or say that they are in good shape before a holy God.
 

Zaac

Well-Known Member
Think the question is IF a homosexual person, male or female, claims to be a Chrsitian, yet keeps on living in sin as before, one should really question that claim to being saved, for IF a Chrsitian, the HS in them would be screaming to the heavens to repent and forsake that lifestyle!

to me, 3 choices on this:

Perhaps. But what if we are dealing with a stronghold in that person's life?

Person saved, redeemed out from that lifestyle, to glory of god!
saved, still struggling/tempted, perhaps even sinning at times, but do know that its wrong and earnestly seeking to be set free
Claims to be saved, no regrent/remorse/repenting over lifestyle, business as usual!

Or again, saved and entangled in a stronghold that they keep going back to. I think that speaks to your second point.

Paul said

14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
Romans 7:14-25

Paul seems to be making clear that he had a practice of doing the wrong things too. What he willed to do, he did not practice. But what he did not will to do, he did.

I just don't see where there is BIBLICAL cause to deem that someone is unsaved because they "practice" a sin, whatever practice is referring to. It seems to be a man-made subjective concept and not a Biblical one.

The true measure of whether or not salvation is/is not present seems to be the condition of their hearts as exampled by Paul.

Does the person who is saved and is caught in these desires want to be free of them so that their walk is not hindered? is it a stronghold and though they have not been mastered by it, they can't break free even though they want to? Or do they want to as you mentioned just continue in it.
 

Matt22:37-39

New Member
Was I replying to you? I don't think so. Yes, we need to show them the Gospel - preach the Gospel constantly. You miss in your quoted piece that we are to help the homosexual draw closer to God through ACCOUNTABILITY...PRAYER.....GUIDANCE. We do not ignore it, embrace it or say that they are in good shape before a holy God.

NO YOU MISSED IT...you don't even know what the GOSPEL is it is the GOOD NEWS you guys preach hate!...it isn't your job to JUDGE anyone's sin the bible says unless they sin against you...so unless some lesbian makes advances at you it aint YOUR PROBLEM!

by me..My job and your job is to HELP THAT HOMOSEXUAL no matter which side of the scale they are on to DRAW CLOSER TO GOD through love, accountability (within the church only) acceptance, respect, prayer, guidance etc...so His desires become theirs...this we should do for everyone no matter what sin they struggle with....that is what He wants for all us sinners.
 

InTheLight

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Site Supporter
This thread is certainly misguided.

Looks like I'll be adding another one to the killfile. This is a pre-emptive move (first time ev-ah!) because I just KNOW I would have problems having a civil dialogue with a certain poster in this thread.
 

Zaac

Well-Known Member
Do we assume that the man in the church who is hooked on porn is also not saved?
What about the women again who read the romance novels?Are they not saved?

Scripture says 3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. Eph. 5:3-4

Do the folks who watch rated r movies, soft porn on network tv, are they saved because this is certainly a repeated sin.

There are lots of folks on here with very nasty attitudes. Are they not saved?

I wonder why it's always everybody else's "practiced sin" that calls their salvation into question yet we throw fits when ours is called into question because of our repeated sin?
 

Yeshua1

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Perhaps. But what if we are dealing with a stronghold in that person's life?



Or again, saved and entangled in a stronghold that they keep going back to. I think that speaks to your second point.

Paul said

14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
Romans 7:14-25

Paul seems to be making clear that he had a practice of doing the wrong things too. What he willed to do, he did not practice. But what he did not will to do, he did.

I just don't see where there is BIBLICAL cause to deem that someone is unsaved because they "practice" a sin, whatever practice is referring to. It seems to be a man-made subjective concept and not a Biblical one.

The true measure of whether or not salvation is/is not present seems to be the condition of their hearts as exampled by Paul.

Does the person who is saved and is caught in these desires want to be free of them so that their walk is not hindered? is it a stronghold and though they have not been mastered by it, they can't break free even though they want to? Or do they want to as you mentioned just continue in it.

paul seemed to hold that if a person was saved by the grace of God, and desired to turn from sin, that the HS residing in them is power of God to enable them to be set free to serve Chrsit!

We can walk in the Spirit, and NOT fulfill lusts of the flesh, or indulge them and keep on sinning...

there is NO scriptures that say in the Bible though that one gets saved, comes to christ, receives the HS, and yet continues to live in known sin without ANY change at all!

A person can feel bad/guilty/know its wrong to keep doing that, be tempted, be struggling, but still show some evidence of salvation!

A gay amn or woman claiming to be now saved, yet has NO change at all regarding sex with same sex, stay in relationships etc, would be same as me being a cjhild molester claiming jesus just saved me, washed me in the blood, yet feel that God OK me still going on that the same things as before!
 

Matt22:37-39

New Member
Pornography ~ Statistics

Among Christians

“In a poll of 1,000 respondents, 50 percent of Christian men and 20 percent of Christian women were found to be addicted to pornography.” [CFL NOTE: Be careful interpreting the word “addicted.” In polls and stats, it can mean “totally given over to” or “viewed once in the last 6 months.” In other words, not all classified as “addicted” may be truly “addicted.”]
51% of pastors say cyberporn is a possible temptation. 37% say it is a current struggle (Christianity Today, Leadership Survey, December 2001).
4 in 10 pastors have visited a porn site (Christianity Today, Leadership Survey, December 2001).
17.8% of all "born again" Christian adults (in America) have visited sexually-oriented Websites (Zogby survey conducted for Focus on the Family, 2000).
34% of readers of Today's Christian Woman's online newsletter admitted to intentionally accessing Internet porn
A 2003 survey from Internet Filter Review reported that 47 percent of Christians admit pornography is a major problem in their homes.
An internet survey conducted by Rick Warren of Saddleback Church in 2002 found 30 percent of 6,000 pastors had viewed internet porn in the last 30 days.
A Christianity Today Leadership Survey in 2001 reported 37 percent of pastors have viewed internet porn.
Family Safe Media reports 53 percent of men belonging to the Christian organization Promise Keepers visit porn sites every week.
One in seven calls to Focus on the Family’s Pastoral Care Hotline is related to internet pornography.
Today’s Christian Woman in 2003 found that one in six women, including Christians, struggles with pornography addiction.
Sources/more info
http://www.christianpost.com/article/20070605/porn-addiction-flooding-culture-church/index.html
http://www.horizonz.com/whatabout.htm
http://www.kyria.com/topics/hottopics/womensissues/5.58.html
http://www.worldmag.com/articles/10555

In General

Every second
$3,075.64 is being spent on pornography
28,258 internet users are viewing pornography
372 internet users are typing adult search terms into search engines
Every 39 minutes a new pornographic video is being created in the U.S.
The pornography industry has larger revenues than Microsoft, Google, Amazon, eBay, Yahoo, Apple and Netflix combined. 2006 Worldwide Pornography Revenues ballooned to $97.06 billion.
$3,630,000,000 was spent by Americans in 2006 on pornographic video sales and rentals
$2,640,000,000 was spent by Americans in 2006 on internet pornography
42,000,000 websites (12% of all websites) contain pornography
“The majority of Internet pornography users appear to do so on a more recreational basis with 43% spending less than one hour per week and 6-10% using more compulsively, spending six hours or more per week engaged in Internet pornography” (Cooper, Putnam, Plancho, & Boies, 1999; Cooper, Morahan-Martin, Mathy, & Maheu, 2002; Weisskirch & Murphy, 2004).
The following countries have banned pornography: Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, Bahrain, Egypt, UAE, Kuwait, Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, Kenya, India, Cuba, China [Note that China, however, is still the largest consumer of porn - $27,400,000,000 spent in 2006]
Sources/more info
http://internet-filter-review.toptenreviews.com/internet-pornography-statistics.html, July 13, 2010)
http://www.safefamilies.org/sfStats.php
http://www.blazinggrace.org/cms/bg/pornstats
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Inter...ntext+of+external+and+internal...-a0225934563

The follow stats were provided by Dr. John Splinter, (formerly Missouri Director of The National Coalition for the Protection of Children and Families, now the founder of the Family Legacy Institute.)

Adolescents today receive approximately 14,000 sexualized messages each year
26% of girls 11 – 19 in America have at least one STD; most don’t know they’re carriers
Today there are 25 – 30 different STDs, some of which are incurable, some fatal
Today’s kids believe that oral sex does not count as being sexually active
Half of all STD infections occur in people under 25 years of age
American kids today are the world’s most sexually active kids, topping French, Spanish & Italian kids in a) pregnancies; b) abortions; c) STDs; d) self-reporting of frequencies
300,000 children ages 9 – 19 are held captive for use in sexual slavery in the U.S.A.
The porn industry now earns $14 billion per year (more than combined revenues of ABC, NBC, and CBS. Or, more than combined revenues of NFL, NBA, and MLB).
The porn industry now targets kids 7 – 11, to create lifetime addicted users
Porn has been found to be more addictive and harder to break than addiction to cocaine
The average child today first sees porn at age 11 (one study found it to be 8)
10 years ago there were an estimated 17 million porn pages on the net; today, 420 million
20% of them involve child porn
80% of primetime TV now deals with overtly sexual themes
78% of new cases of genital herpes are caused by a virus found chiefly in the mouths of 16-21 year olds
25% of girls and 30% of boys have sex by age 15
21% of 9th graders have slept with four or more partners
50% of 17-year-olds have had sex
80% of teens have sex by age 19
55% of teens ages 13-19 have engaged in oral sex
 

annsni

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
NO YOU MISSED IT...you don't even know what the GOSPEL is it is the GOOD NEWS you guys preach hate!...it isn't your job to JUDGE anyone's sin the bible says unless they sin against you...so unless some lesbian makes advances at you it aint YOUR PROBLEM!

I preach hate? Interesting. Because I preach sin and repentance? Hmmmm - I do believe Jesus did the same thing - even telling the woman caught in adultery "Go and sin no more". Did He not?
 

Zaac

Well-Known Member
paul seemed to hold that if a person was saved by the grace of God, and desired to turn from sin, that the HS residing in them is power of God to enable them to be set free to serve Chrsit!

We can walk in the Spirit, and NOT fulfill lusts of the flesh, or indulge them and keep on sinning...

there is NO scriptures that say in the Bible though that one gets saved, comes to christ, receives the HS, and yet continues to live in known sin without ANY change at all!

A person can feel bad/guilty/know its wrong to keep doing that, be tempted, be struggling, but still show some evidence of salvation!

Agree.

A gay amn or woman claiming to be now saved, yet has NO change at all regarding sex with same sex, stay in relationships etc, would be same as me being a cjhild molester claiming jesus just saved me, washed me in the blood, yet feel that God OK me still going on that the same things as before!

Right here is where I tend to disagree with folks because I've seen first hand where folks have still struggled with the same sin.
 

Matt22:37-39

New Member
.

Question: "When should a Christian try to correct another Christian?"

Answer: This can be a delicate subject. It is wise to spend time in prayer first, to check our motivation and ask for guidance. There are times when Christians are called upon to "talk to" or try to correct a fellow Christian. Assuming we are talking about a matter of sin in a believers’ life, our motive and intent should always be to bring about repentance and restoration to the erring brother or sister in Christ.

First, our attitude is very important. "Be kind and tender to one another. Forgive each other, just as God forgave you because of what Christ has done" (Ephesians 4:32). It is then that we are more able to "speak the truth in love" (Ephesians 4:15). In his epistle to the Galatians, Paul had a similar warning about attitude: "Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted" (Galatians 6:1). Here we see that those who are “spiritual,” meaning walking in the Spirit in faith and obedience, should gently restore someone who is in sin, being always aware of how easily we can all be tempted by Satan who wants to ensnare everyone in his traps.

The Bible prescribes the procedure for confronting a sinning brother or sister in an extensive passage on church discipline: "If your brother sins against YOU, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector" (Matthew 18:15-17). Again, this is the procedure for confronting a sinning brother, not someone whose behavior you feel needs modifying in some way or someone who merely irritates or annoys you.

On a different slant, one of the most often quoted scriptures is "Judge not, lest ye be judged" (Matthew 7:1 KJV). Taken out of context, the verse has been used to incorrectly justify never taking a stand on anything that would require a judgment to be made. Rather, the verse is referring to hypocritical, self-righteous, unfair kinds of judgment, especially where the confronter is guilty of the same sin as the one being confronted.

So, when should Christians talk to or try to correct a fellow Christian? When we have talked to the Lord first, have an attitude of submission and concern for the other person, and are committed to following the procedures outlined in His Word for such a situation.

www.gotquestions.org
 
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Yeshua1

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Agree.



Right here is where I tend to disagree with folks because I've seen first hand where folks have still struggled with the same sin.

They would fall under my category 2, for they still might be that sin, but they also MUST have struggle , knowing now it sin against God...

if they just keep doing, without ANY remorse/struggle, would se them as not getting saved!
 

annsni

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Galatians 6:1 says "Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted."

I don't see anything in that verse about only if it is a sin against me.

1 Corinthians 5 speaks clearly towards a church who ignored the sin of a member of their congregation. Again, it's not a sin against a particular person but a member who is sinning who needs to be addressed.
 

Matt22:37-39

New Member
Can practicing homosexuals be saved?

by Matt Slick

If "practicing homosexual" means a person who is openly approving of homosexuality and is engaged in it, can this person be saved? Yes and no. Yes, because any sinner has the potential of becoming saved. On the other hand, if the person is professing to be a Christian yet is unrepentantly practicing homosexuality, then it would appear that he would not be saved. 1 John 2:4 says, "The one who says, 'I have come to know Him,' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." So, a homosexual can be saved, but once saved the Spirit of God will move that person to repent of the sin of homosexuality. If a person continues to practice homosexuality unrepentantly, promoting it, etc., then that person would not be demonstrating evidence of regeneration.

But then again, a person could become saved, still fall into homosexuality, be convicted by the Spirit of sinning, and all the while seek to break free from it. So technically, in this last sense, he could be saved and be a homosexual -- not as a lifestyle, but as in struggling against his sin which sometimes can get the best of him. It would be like a drug addict becoming a Christian and still being hooked on drugs. He would struggle against it but still have the desire to participate in it.

I would say that a person who has professed Christ and is struggling against sin is demonstrating evidence of regeneration. Remember, many people who become Christians still struggle with many of their old sins. Even Paul struggled, "For the good that I wish, I do not do; but I practice the very evil that I do not wish," (Rom. 7:19). We are not perfect and we must remember to be gracious to others, especially when they are stuck in an old sin, want to repent of it, and are trying to have victory over it. This is when grace is needed, not law. But, of course, we are never to encourage or excuse a person's sin. We must pray for them to attain full victory.

Now, some Christians will state that once you become saved, you should automatically have victory over all your sins. This is an unfortunate burden they place on many Christians because "perfection" becomes the standard for measuring whether or not they are Christians. This can cause people to doubt their salvation. While it is true that we have victory in many areas when we become saved, it is also true that we still struggle with many of our old sins. Of course, it is never okay for us to go ahead and sin (Rom. 6:1-2). We must always struggle for holiness. But the fact is, like Paul, we sometimes do the things we don't want to do and don't do what we should. It is our struggle against sin that demonstrates that we are regenerate since we are seeking to be holy as God is holy (1 Pet. 1:16).

Finally, no dead people struggle for life. Only those who are alive struggle. Likewise, the dead in sin, the unregenerate, do not struggle against their sins. Christians do.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
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Can practicing homosexuals be saved?

by Matt Slick

If "practicing homosexual" means a person who is openly approving of homosexuality and is engaged in it, can this person be saved? Yes and no. Yes, because any sinner has the potential of becoming saved. On the other hand, if the person is professing to be a Christian yet is unrepentantly practicing homosexuality, then it would appear that he would not be saved. 1 John 2:4 says, "The one who says, 'I have come to know Him,' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." So, a homosexual can be saved, but once saved the Spirit of God will move that person to repent of the sin of homosexuality. If a person continues to practice homosexuality unrepentantly, promoting it, etc., then that person would not be demonstrating evidence of regeneration.

But then again, a person could become saved, still fall into homosexuality, be convicted by the Spirit of sinning, and all the while seek to break free from it. So technically, in this last sense, he could be saved and be a homosexual -- not as a lifestyle, but as in struggling against his sin which sometimes can get the best of him. It would be like a drug addict becoming a Christian and still being hooked on drugs. He would struggle against it but still have the desire to participate in it.

I would say that a person who has professed Christ and is struggling against sin is demonstrating evidence of regeneration. Remember, many people who become Christians still struggle with many of their old sins. Even Paul struggled, "For the good that I wish, I do not do; but I practice the very evil that I do not wish," (Rom. 7:19). We are not perfect and we must remember to be gracious to others, especially when they are stuck in an old sin, want to repent of it, and are trying to have victory over it. This is when grace is needed, not law. But, of course, we are never to encourage or excuse a person's sin. We must pray for them to attain full victory.

Now, some Christians will state that once you become saved, you should automatically have victory over all your sins. This is an unfortunate burden they place on many Christians because "perfection" becomes the standard for measuring whether or not they are Christians. This can cause people to doubt their salvation. While it is true that we have victory in many areas when we become saved, it is also true that we still struggle with many of our old sins. Of course, it is never okay for us to go ahead and sin (Rom. 6:1-2). We must always struggle for holiness. But the fact is, like Paul, we sometimes do the things we don't want to do and don't do what we should. It is our struggle against sin that demonstrates that we are regenerate since we are seeking to be holy as God is holy (1 Pet. 1:16).

Finally, no dead people struggle for life. Only those who are alive struggle. Likewise, the dead in sin, the unregenerate, do not struggle against their sins. Christians do.

true, for if really been saved, the HS would be convicting big time, would have no pleasure or joy in the sin, as would be good for a season but would be 'bothered" by Him to repent and forsake...

if don't feel ANY conviction/bothering by Him....
 
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