How should christians treat the saved homosexual?

[Matt22:37-39]

true, for if really been saved, the HS would be convicting big time, would have no pleasure or joy in the sin, as would be good for a season but would be 'bothered" by Him to repent and forsake...

if don't feel ANY conviction/bothering by Him....

Yep, pretty much what I said in my OP if anyone actually read it?...it is the WORK of God through the holy spirit...there are those who have been so HURT by the church and mean spirited Christians that they may go back into the world...God's timing is not our own. and it isn't for us to judge others heart...just to bring them to God.

 

[Matt22:37-39]

Can practicing homosexuals be saved?

by Matt Slick

If "practicing homosexual" means a person who is openly approving of homosexuality and is engaged in it, can this person be saved? Yes and no. Yes, because any sinner has the potential of becoming saved. On the other hand, if the person is professing to be a Christian yet is unrepentantly practicing homosexuality, then it would appear that he would not be saved. 1 John 2:4 says, "The one who says, 'I have come to know Him,' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." So, a homosexual can be saved, but once saved the Spirit of God will move that person to repent of the sin of homosexuality. If a person continues to practice homosexuality unrepentantly, promoting it, etc., then that person would not be demonstrating evidence of regeneration.

But then again, a person could become saved, still fall into homosexuality, be convicted by the Spirit of sinning, and all the while seek to break free from it. So technically, in this last sense, he could be saved and be a homosexual -- not as a lifestyle, but as in struggling against his sin which sometimes can get the best of him. It would be like a drug addict becoming a Christian and still being hooked on drugs. He would struggle against it but still have the desire to participate in it.

I would say that a person who has professed Christ and is struggling against sin is demonstrating evidence of regeneration. Remember, many people who become Christians still struggle with many of their old sins. Even Paul struggled, "For the good that I wish, I do not do; but I practice the very evil that I do not wish," (Rom. 7:19). We are not perfect and we must remember to be gracious to others, especially when they are stuck in an old sin, want to repent of it, and are trying to have victory over it. This is when grace is needed, not law. But, of course, we are never to encourage or excuse a person's sin. We must pray for them to attain full victory.

Now, some Christians will state that once you become saved, you should automatically have victory over all your sins. This is an unfortunate burden they place on many Christians because "perfection" becomes the standard for measuring whether or not they are Christians. This can cause people to doubt their salvation. While it is true that we have victory in many areas when we become saved, it is also true that we still struggle with many of our old sins. Of course, it is never okay for us to go ahead and sin (Rom. 6:1-2). We must always struggle for holiness. But the fact is, like Paul, we sometimes do the things we don't want to do and don't do what we should. It is our struggle against sin that demonstrates that we are regenerate since we are seeking to be holy as God is holy (1 Pet. 1:16).

Finally, no dead people struggle for life. Only those who are alive struggle. Likewise, the dead in sin, the unregenerate, do not struggle against their sins. Christians do.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Everyone struggles with sin, even the unsaved. As a youth,
I had a problem with stealing. I knew it was wrong because my mother told me it was wrong. And I did struggle with it at times because I knew it was wrong.

 

[Alive in Christ]

MATT22...

You posted...

I was very blessed and fortunate to be placed into a SOUND BALANCED church after I got saved...I spent a few months in Woodstock NY (where I got saved) and went to a Pentecost church and KNEW most of what they taught was WRONG...the Spirit IN me told me so. So once I came back to Ca...I was sent to (through a friend) to a Fundamental Independent Baptist Church...(glad I came when he got the word right)....the pastor use to be KJ only, DRESSES ONLY, Bob Jones, type church, very legalistic till he learned the BIBLE DOESN'T teach much of what he thought it did....so he RIGHTLY DIVIDED God's word and taught balance and truth and love!...he would go through the book of Romans and Rev for like 4 to 5 years....dissecting it inductively...he majored 6 years hermeneutics and Greek...he was so awesome over 70 pastors came to his funeral and he never had a church split of 38 years nor were there hardly any problems in the church because of sound doctrine and they lived what they preached...even having me as a pregnant single mom in there home.

When I got married my husband also believed all the same things I did and he went to a Swedish Baptist church and learned the same things...

Point being over 20 years later I come upon www.gotquestions.org like 4 years ago and when ever I look ANYTHING UP it always agrees with what I had juts said on a forum....

So anything, any subject, that disagrees with gotquestions, must be wrong?

I got a good blessing from that testimony. Particularly the part about the IFB pastor coming to his senses, and shifting to a *balanced* message.

Good stuff

 

[Matt22:37-39]

MATT22...

You posted...

I got a good blessing from that testimony. Particularly the part about the IFB pastor coming to his senses, and shifting to a *balanced* message.

Good stuff

Thank you or should I say thank God...I also feel God has called me to do the same preach LOVE, BALANCE and TRUTH.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Thank you or should I say thank God...I also feel God has called me to do the same preach LOVE, BALANCE and TRUTH.

When are you going to start?

 

[Matt22:37-39]

If you read any of my thread starters you would see that I do...I am one of the FEW that teach balance...with love and truth.

And I have had enough people, tell me so...saved and unsaved...I am just called to do what God tells me to do He does the work, not me.

 

[Zaac]

Yep, pretty much what I said in my OP if anyone actually read it?...it is the WORK of God through the holy spirit...there are those who have been so HURT by the church and mean spirited Christians that they may go back into the world...God's timing is not our own. and it isn't for us to judge others heart...just to bring them to God.

Another excellent point and one that I try to street every time we have these discussions. But I fear that the Church has hardened its heart to repentance because they don't think the way they have turned homosexuals into modern day lepers is sinful.

When all they hear is that your sin is the worst of the worst from the church, they continue to use the draw of homosexuality just as an alcoholic uses alcohol to cope with their brokenness.

This is why I think there is ample proof to say that the world is where it is today MORALLY because of the failings of the Church.

 

[annsni]

Thank you or should I say thank God...I also feel God has called me to do the same preach LOVE, BALANCE and TRUTH.

God has called you to preach? Aren't you a woman?

 

[Zaac]

God has called you to preach? Aren't you a woman?

ALL Christians should be preaching. You pretty much become a preacher any time you're telling folks of the Gospel.

Not all are to PASTOR.

 

[Alive in Christ]

ANNsni...

God has called you to preach? Aren't you a woman?

Matt22 is indeed a woman, and therfor has every right to preach, to anyone who cares to listen.

According to the scriptures of course. ( self edit)... I am NOT a "liberal" by the way. I consider myself a moderate conservative

 

[InTheLight]

I consider myself a moderate conservative

LOL! How does that work?

 

[Alive in Christ]

In The light...

I mentioned that I was a moderate conservative, and you asked...

How does that work?

Wonderfully, :wavey: Thanks for asking.

 

[Matt22:37-39]

Everyone struggles with sin, even the unsaved. As a youth,
I had a problem with stealing. I knew it was wrong because my mother told me it was wrong. And I did struggle with it at times because I knew it was wrong.

You know what cured me of STEALING when I was young? Let's first start off by saying my "parents" (have had many even foster homes) had this weird thing about food, it was used to especially CONTROL me (I'm a foodie) I ate anything, especially liked sweets......thank God I hold my weight pretty well at my age. (50 next month) so sweets were often counted like cookies. And we could only have 3 meals a day and maybe desert and a snack like fruit after school. That sounds like a lot, but I was an athlete and I was very hyperactive and we had to walk up and down a steep hill everyday...remember when kids actually got exercise?....I had a HUGE APPETITE and still STAYED SKINNY....Anyway, for punishment for getting some peanut butter in the middle of then night, I had to SIT ON A HARD FOLDING CHAIR for a whole month, only to lay down for sleep, for getting some peanut butter in the middle of the night, so anyway, I had a bad habit of stealing chocolate bars or m & m's at the neighborhood grocery store (man what took them so long?)...one day at 14 I got caught and they called my parents, who said "take her to jail" in which they did. So I spent a night or two in juvie (I finished a good size book in that time, something with horses...like don't let me leave till I finish the book please) Needless to say that cured me....as far as I know, haven't done it since.

Here is another story about my older son. I noticed around 5 he was stealing little car toys from church...I talked to him about stealing (Spankings that were never done in anger, were only done for defiant disobedience, nothing else) I had different punishments for different offenses. Anyway, I went over what the bible said about stealing...and after a few times of being caught as a single mother, I took him to the police station and asked to talk to a male police officer who did and that straightened him up till he got caught again at 8 stealing Lego's from his "neighbor friend"...so more bible and maybe even VEGGIE TALES at the time...I had him take the Lego's back and then apologize and he never got caught again...I say "caught" cause I don't know?

Seems like both of us finally got the message that stealing is WRONG and I HATE LYING!...easier to tell the truth as far as I'm concerned.

Well got to go finish a new article (over 50 now) on "KEEPING SHORT ACCOUNTS"


Thanks for sharing.....:wavey:

 

[Matt22:37-39]

ANNsni...



Matt22 is indeed a woman, and therfor has every right to preach, to anyone who cares to listen.

According to the scriptures of course. ( self edit)... I am NOT a "liberal" by the way. I consider myself a moderate conservative

EXACTLY ME TOO!...btw way PREACH means to PROCLAIM...and no, I do not believe in women preachers...I believe men are the head (and women are the neck that turns it) I believe God made roles for genders. I naturally am very domestic and I was raised that way.

 

[righteousdude2]

Here's a little lesson in legalism...

NO I'M NOT IN THE SAME PLACE RD IS...see your ignorance right there...lol

He is estranged from his daughter by choice because of legalism...I have a wonderful relationship with my son and his wife because of GRACE...I'm happy RD is not. I trust my God who took care of me to do the same for my boy.

The entire Bible is based upon God's legal authority to judge, send folks to hell, save sinners, and, quite frankly, do whatever He so chooses to do, as this is his creation. A creation that far exceeds any place that the human eye can see.

To begin with, in Romans 6:16, (NKJV) - "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves a slave to obey, you are that ones slave whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?" is the verse that shows the legality of Satan's hold over man? When Adam's sold out to the devil, he forfeited his "legal" right to eternal life and a relationship with God.

It was there, in Eden that Satan took legal authority of man with a sin nature.

Since Satan was now the legitimate possessor of Adam [who was now his sin slave] and the legal ruler of earth, God had no moral or no legal right, under HIS code of justice or jurisprudence, to simply step in and "annul" what Adam had done.

This kind of reminds me of the thoughts at Calvary, when Christ could've called down ten thousand, angels and ended his suffering. God could've scrapped everything; annulled the acts of Adam and the devils stepping in and taking over with a legal claim to mankind. However, just like Jesus didn't call down angels, God decided to stick with a legal course of action. A course of action that forever and legally, won back man's right to either come to Jesus or remain with the devil.

The original sin by Adam started the legal process and fight between God and the devil in who had the legal right and claim over mankind.

God had to come up with a legal way to win back mankind. A way to legally wrestle the keys of life, death and hell away from Satan and put it back in the hands of God.

He did this with His plan to send His Son, by way of a virgin. Once His Son was in place, Jesus had to live a life without sin [another LEGAL prerequisite for Salvation to take hold], and when He died on the cross, Satan killed a completely innocent man. A man who was not born of a human, yet conceived by the Holy Spuirit. A bonafide man, with Holy linage, and since Jesus never partook of sin, when he died, Satan took the life of an individual whom he actually had no legal claim to kill.

This allowed Jesus to conquer sin [which He took upon Himself on the cross], death and legally; He could now take back from Satan, the keys of death and hell.

And the legality of winning back the right for man to once again have fellowship with God the Father/Creator, was but one legal battle won in the heavens to bring us salvation.

You seem to like reading books, may I suggest you read "Destine for the Throne" especially pages 71-81, and you will see how LEGALITY played the most important part in salvation.

Then look closely at 1 John [all chapters], where we find such as legalese as propitiation, advocate and commandments. These are all legal terms. Then we have things like "covenant, promise, adoption, redeemed, freewill, judgement and law," mentioned throughout the Bible.

These are all legal terms, used in relation to mankind's fall from grace, and God's plan for redemption of mankind from sin.

If it weren't for a tightly planned legal strategy to rescue and save us, we'd still have no hope of being reunited with the Father.

Since God created us with a freewill, and man used that freewill to stray from God, God had to devise [even before He created us] a plan that would not be able to be challenged by the devil, to be legally win us back.

You may not like the legality of those who you claim are caught up in legalism, but the truth is, the Word of God is one large book of legal strategy to legally take back from Satan's death and save us from hell.

Here's one more, short, article that demonstrates God's legal finagling to legally have the right to take those - who no longer want to serve the devil and sin as his slaves - back for eternity. http://www.biblebelievers.com/jmelton/plan.html

I see the entire Bible as one fantastic legal document. A document that records the birth and linage of royalty [recording is another legal act] leading to birth of Christ; and all the other forms of jurisprudence that I briefly laid out for you above.

In fact, we went from ten basic laws in the OT, to two new laws [a combination of the ten] in the NT. Again, we can't get around the leglism of the terminology "laws."

So, you see, I have no problem with legalism. If it was good enough for God and His strategy to win us freedom from sin, and eternity with Him, let legalism rule the day.

 

[righteousdude2]

One little problem with your line of thinking!

Right here is where I tend to disagree with folks because I've seen first hand where folks have still struggled with the same sin.

I don't disagree that a homosexual may not be tempted by that which once enslaved them. Furthermore, they may go to their grave struggling to leave their past behind and to remain faithful to their Savior. But, the fact is, they are now a new creation, and that is where sanctification takes over.

Remember: we are first - Justified [or just as if I never sinned], Sanctified [the process between being born-again and reaching heaven], and finally upon death, GLORIFIED.

HOWEVER, to call yourself a homosexual believer is a misnomer. A contradiction. They are now born-again. Regardless of what weaknesses they may carry over with them; first and foremost, they are a new creation in Christ [born-again], and old things are now buried or passed away.

To say that you are a gay believer, or a homosexual Christian is to deny your heritage in Christ. Once you are saved, you are adopted into the family of God, by His blood, and when legally adopted, you now have the right to carry the last name of the adopting party! Why would you want to associate yourself with the old, when the new is now there to be identifed with????

It is like when a women takes that last name of her husband when married. They may always carry the last name of their family, or nee, but in fact, from the day the law says they are man and wife, she is now Mrs. Smith, no longer Ms. Brown.

 

[Matt22:37-39]

I see where many are having a problem, me included. Believe me I might agree with you more than you think, but it is the ABSOLUTES that you make, for we do not know mans heart only God does and it is only for God to judge and do His work the way He wants, in His time, like He does each one of us. I have a hard time when a person makes a blanket statement or says they KNOW for sure what CONDITION another person is in. Or their eternal destination without knowing all the facts that ONLY God knows.

I am seeing this is where I am having a problem. yes I know what the bible says, I also know that not everyone who claims to be born again is...therefore if they are living in habitual sin they probably are not saved...but the question then becomes..."does this person feel bad about what they are doing, if nothing else do they realize in God's eyes it is wrong?" if so then this person is probably saved, if not and like many have said, they are proud in their SIN CONDITION and see no need to change then yes they are not probably are not of God...but I don't really know for sure...either way they need be drawn to God the way Jesus would do it...you know..."What Would Jesus Do?"...He wouldn't do what I have seen in some churches among some "Christians"...not at all, because I have seen the effects!

Another question I would have to consider is this...HOW LONG is God "All Suffering?"....He says He is...meaning His timing is not mine...he has His way of drawing His wayward children back to himself, I know He has me....my own experience has taught me this fact in the last 6 years when a pastor hit on me and we were kicked out of church for "Gossiping"...jerk, so I've been struggling ever since, with much demonic oppression, mainly coming from those who claim to know God... then the divorce...and then more trials and temptations, to where I JUST WANTED TO BE HAPPY, it wasn't to be found among believers, I eventually turned from God and did my own thing for 4 years....and He has mercifully, yet through many hardships, cause me each time to look to Him much like Job did and ask many question of WHY? I'd try to come back many times only to have another "ATTACK" and believe me they are still not over, although I know have peace about my circumstances.....I'm heading towards the 100 God mark on the scale...slowly but surely.

Anyway I came back in June and God has been doing a wonderful work in me that I NOW see a future of HOPE and not HARM...Jer 9:11

So again all I know is what WORKED for me would work for anyone, even the homosexual. And that is what has told me to SHARE....

So maybe we are saying the same thing yet in different ways?

 

[saturneptune]

I see where many are having a problem, me included. Believe me I might agree with you more than you think, but it is the ABSOLUTES that you make, for we do not know mans heart only God does and it is only for God to judge and do His work the way He wants, in His time, like He does each one of us. I have a hard time when a person makes a blanket statement or says they KNOW for sure what CONDITION another person is in. Or their eternal destination without knowing all the facts that ONLY God knows.

I am seeing this is where I am having a problem. yes I know what the bible says, I also know that not everyone who claims to be born again is...therefore if they are living in habitual sin they probably are not saved...but the question then becomes..."does this person feel bad about what they are doing, if nothing else do they realize in God's eyes it is wrong?" if so then this person is probably saved, if not and like many have said, they are proud in their SIN CONDITION and see no need to change then yes they are not probably are not of God...but I don't really know for sure...either way they need be drawn to God the way Jesus would do it...you know..."What Would Jesus Do?"...He wouldn't do what I have seen in some churches among some "Christians"...not at all, because I have seen the effects!

Another question I would have to consider is this...HOW LONG is God "All Suffering?"....He says He is...meaning His timing is not mine...he has His way of drawing His wayward children back to himself, I know He has me....my own experience has taught me this fact in the last 6 years when a pastor hit on me and we were kicked out of church for "Gossiping"...jerk, so I've been struggling ever since, with much demonic oppression, mainly coming from those who claim to know God... then the divorce...and then more trials and temptations, to where I JUST WANTED TO BE HAPPY, it wasn't to be found among believers, I eventually turned from God and did my own thing for 4 years....and He has mercifully, yet through many hardships, cause me each time to look to Him much like Job did and ask many question of WHY? I'd try to come back many times only to have another "ATTACK" and believe me they are still not over, although I know have peace about my circumstances.....I'm heading towards the 100 God mark on the scale...slowly but surely.

Anyway I came back in June and God has been doing a wonderful work in me that I NOW see a future of HOPE and not HARM...Jer 9:11

So again all I know is what WORKED for me would work for anyone, even the homosexual. And that is what has told me to SHARE....

So maybe we are saying the same thing yet in different ways?

Excellent point, and a few verses from your name, ie Matthew 23, tells exactly how Christ thought about worldly wisdom and the inventions of men in regard to religion.

 

[Zaac]

I don't disagree that a homosexual may not be tempted by that which once enslaved them. Furthermore, they may go to their grave struggling to leave their past behind and to remain faithful to their Savior. But, the fact is, they are now a new creation, and that is where sanctification takes over.

Remember: we are first - Justified [or just as if I never sinned], Sanctified [the process between being born-again and reaching heaven], and finally upon death, GLORIFIED.

HOWEVER, to call yourself a homosexual believer is a misnomer. A contradiction. They are now born-again. Regardless of what weaknesses they may carry over with them; first and foremost, they are a new creation in Christ [born-again], and old things are now buried or passed away.

I don't think God cares too much what they call themselves as long as their hearts have been changed.:smilewinkgrin:

To say that you are a gay believer, or a homosexual Christian is to deny your heritage in Christ. Once you are saved, you are adopted into the family of God, by His blood, and when legally adopted, you now have the right to carry the last name of the adopting party! Why would you want to associate yourself with the old, when the new is now there to be identifed with????

When people are just trying to make it day to day as they struggle with the same old sin, they are glad to just make it through the day. They aren't concerning themselves with what they called themselves today or if they are denying the heritage. God got them through another day where they haven't wanted to kill themselves or do something destructive.

But this is my point. The Church is too busy choking the life out of these people with a list of what they should be doing that the Church doesn't quite get that a lot of them need mature Christians to come stand beside them and say that stuff can wait. Let's just get you through the day without you being overwhelmed by the desire to use your old behavior to cope.

It is like when a women takes that last name of her husband when married. They may always carry the last name of their family, or nee, but in fact, from the day the law says they are man and wife, she is now Mrs. Smith, no longer Ms. Brown.

Again, you and a lot of the church are talking book smarts and I'm talking street smart REALITY.:laugh: How are you gonna tell them about sanctification when you appear to care more about a process than how they are actually doing?

The real world doesn't care about the pretty names we have for what we think should take place. Like with Muslims, making disciples of folks who have struggled with these church defined "bad" sins is a very time consuming process. And a person who has used every drug known to man to cope with brokenness from his youth just isn't gonna care that you got a problem with him calling himself a meth addicted Christian or a homosexual Christian. His reality is that he gets up everyday and struggles with not running back to the drugs or sex to help him cope.

And until God gets them to a place where they don't feel that it's a struggle, they are gonna call themselves what they have for years used as a coping mechanism.

And that's what I mean about the Church needs to stop with all this "you're an abomination, you're the worst of the worst stuff".

A lot of these folks are just trying to keep from taking their own lives and then we turn around and lay the weight of our prejudices on them. That is wicked.