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How then do we really define heresy?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
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There are certain essential doctrines such as the Trinity, Virgin Birth, & bodily Ressurection of Jesus, for example. I myself use the doctrines enumerated in the Nicene Creed but not the creed itself. I don't care for heterodox doctrines. I think that the Bible is perfect.
I became interested in doctrine after Jonestown because Jim Jones was from Indiana. Most people agree that doctrine was ignored more & more from the 19th century until now. The cults are the unpaid bills of the church. Three large cults came out of 19th century America: Christian Science, Mormonism, & Jehovah's Witnesses. How many people they have led to hell!
I became interested in doctrine after Jonestown because Jim Jones was from Indiana. Most people agree that doctrine was ignored more & more from the 19th century until now. The cults are the unpaid bills of the church. Three large cults came out of 19th century America: Christian Science, Mormonism, & Jehovah's Witnesses. How many people they have led to hell!
My question spun out of the thread where some seem to be offended that one would be accusing the teachings and doctrines of the word of faith as being heresies.
Language changes and the meaning of a word also changes.
What is considered heretical on this forum that I've seen the moderator throw people out for.
1. Denying the divinity of Jesus.
2. Denying the inspiration of scripture.
Others I'm pretty sure would get you thrown out might include:
1. Denying the humanity of Jesus.
2. Denying the Holy Spirit.
3. Denying bodily resurrection.
This may also lead to being banned.
1. Denying the second coming.
HatedByAll
Active Member
To me there are scriptural principles that we can be dogmatic about. The Bible is clear about them and any honest person would accept them. In my opinion heresy is denying or changing the meaning of these truths.
Heresy should be a very touchy subject for rebaptizers like us. Those that believed in believer's baptism were almost always called heretics. Remember heresy was almost always punished by death. How many of our rebaptizer martyrs were killed by those of the devil claiming true piety over and against those willing to die for Jesus Christ and the faith.
I believe as Baptists, one of the descendants of the rebaptizers, we must be careful using a term popularized by Rome and its false holy people or church.
The real discussion is what is a position on the bible that demands immediate church discipline? That would be a much more constructive argument.
I believe as Baptists, one of the descendants of the rebaptizers, we must be careful using a term popularized by Rome and its false holy people or church.
The real discussion is what is a position on the bible that demands immediate church discipline? That would be a much more constructive argument.
Heresy is defined as a departure from the accepted (or orthodox) view of a group.
Do you mean like Kenneth Copeland?
Word of Faith "decrees" in place of supplication through prayer and proclaiming a prophecy for it to fail (I am being generous to modern day prophets, since we are told to not despise prophetic utterance in scripture) demand immediate rebuke as far as the scriptures tell me. There are a lot of just "crazy" positions one can argue without an ounce of scriptural support. Another stance would be a Christian form of reincarnation. This would demand immediate rebuke. Saying that we are our own saviors and do not need Jesus Christ or His Cross would be another example of straight up evil doctrine worthy of immediate rebuke.
Calvinist vs Arminianism and Creation vs Theistic Evolution do not seem to match the standard, since we can actually debate them using scripture.
There is something missing though in your debate. Traditionally, heresy requires a punishment mechanism. I mean what's the point of saying something is heresy for you to stay in fellowship with practitioners of it? The bible clearly tells us to not even happily greet (2 John 8-11) or show hospitality to [in our day more like donate to] (2 John 8-11) those holding to doctrine against the apostles' and Jesus' teachings. Teachings we call the New Testament. Such people are accursed by God (Galatians 1:8-9), irrespective of what we think on earth. Unless a church's leadership see the sense in defining false doctrine, rebuking over it, and church discipline over it; then defining false doctrine alone means little.
Both old earth & young earth cannot be right. Although Scripture is greatly involved, the debate is also a science debate. Old earth became strong during the Enlightenment but now is being challenged by people calling themselves Biblical Creationists (a tiny minority). Although I disagree with old earthers, I do not consider them heretical because the age of the universe is not an essential doctrine such as the Trinity or the Virgin Birth.
The same is true for Calvinism, which you mentioned, and I might add dispensationalism, which is very big in America. However, I know a Nigerian Anglican who considers dispensationalism as an unheard of absurdity because he believes that Jesus will rescue us from the Anti-Christ at the end of the Tribulation.
an Auto-da-fé | public ceremony | Britannica www.britannica.com/topic/auto-da-fe
Auto-da-fé, (Portuguese: “act of faith”) a public ceremony during which the sentences upon those brought before the Spanish Inquisition were read and after which the sentences were executed by the secular authorities. The first auto-da-fé took place at Sevilla in 1481; the last, in Mexico in 1850.
The Inquisition is but a preview of the Tribulation to come & does not hold a candle to Islamic atrocities the last 1400 years, which are thought to have totalled 240 million dead in the name of Muhammad/Allah.
it is in the name of God that the greatest crimes of mankind against mankind have been and will be committed
- i.e. Allah or Jehovah.
it is useless to attempt to keep score.
and yes The Great Tribulation, according to our LORD has no equal in terms of the suffering of fallen man..
- i.e. Allah or Jehovah.
it is useless to attempt to keep score.
and yes The Great Tribulation, according to our LORD has no equal in terms of the suffering of fallen man..
There is always heresy when man diverts from scripture. There is always heresy when men claim that which is not true to be truth. regardless of opinion
MB
an Auto-da-fé | public ceremony | Britannica www.britannica.com/topic/auto-da-fe
Auto-da-fé, (Portuguese: “act of faith”) a public ceremony during which the sentences upon those brought before the Spanish Inquisition were read and after which the sentences were executed by the secular authorities. The first auto-da-fé took place at Sevilla in 1481; the last, in Mexico in 1850.
Are you seriously saying that rebuking people who believe in Christian reincarnation or salvation by their own works without the Cross is somehow equivalent to the Spanish Inquisition or the witch trials by the Ordo Malus?
I would also include under this listing how one defines what the Gospel really means!
And mainly deviation, departing from the essential truths of Christianity as found in the scriptures.
Yes, and also likes of Kenneth hagin, fred price, benny hinn et all!
That is why I was seeking to get a consensus on what Heresy actually is, as neither Calvinism/Arminianism , Young/earth earth, what version etxc rises up to me to be considered as being Heresy !
No. Interpretations of Scripture that one group deems enough to separate the doctrine from what it considers orthodox to the group.
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