How then do we really define heresy?

[JonC]

I hold to the scriptures though as my inspired and final source of authority!

Does not matter on this topic. You are, simply put, wrong.

 

[Yeshua1]

Maybe you can show scripture that proves that. Just like the rest of what you've posted does not prove election for Gentiles at all. There are no elect Gentiles.
MB

if election is for only the Jews, then no Gentile ever has gotten saved!

 

[Yeshua1]

Does not matter on this topic. You are, simply put, wrong.

Bible is not our final and only authority then?

 

[Yeshua1]

Does not matter on this topic. You are, simply put, wrong.

You would hold the Canons of Dort views to trump inspired scriptures?

 

[MB]

if election is for only the Jews, then no Gentile ever has gotten saved!

Not true. Where does the Bible say that we have to be elect to be saved?
I can't help but notice you have nothing to prove I'm wrong. Just you making claims you can't back up with scripture.
MB

 

[Yeshua1]

Not true. Where does the Bible say that we have to be elect to be saved?
I can't help but notice you have nothing to prove I'm wrong. Just you making claims you can't back up with scripture.
MB

Were Gentiles predestined to get saved by the will of God?

 

[37818]

There is heresy and there is heresy.
". . . For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. . . ." -- 1 Corinthians 11:19, the Apostle Paul to the Corinthians regarding their divisions amoung them.

 

[Yeshua1]

There is heresy and there is heresy.
". . . For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. . . ." -- 1 Corinthians 11:19, the Apostle Paul to the Corinthians regarding their divisions amoung them.

How would you define heresy as per the scriptures?

 

[MB]

Were Gentiles predestined to get saved by the will of God?

It is God's will that all be saved. The Bible never says that a Gentile must be elect for Salvation. The Jews are elect. Scripture never says that Gentiles are elect .Repentance has been granted the Gentiles cooperatively. All we have to do is believe. Scripture never says anyone is predestined to Salvation.
MB

 

[Yeshua1]

It is God's will that all be saved. The Bible never says that a Gentile must be elect for Salvation. The Jews are elect. Scripture never says that Gentiles are elect .Repentance has been granted the Gentiles cooperatively. All we have to do is believe. Scripture never says anyone is predestined to Salvation.
MB

Romans 8?

 

[37818]

How would you define heresy as per the scriptures?

The text refers to sectarianism by reason of causing divivisions. But as I was using the term, teachings contrary to truth. Sometimes the real truth is wrongly said to be false.
Secondary errors are not matters of salvation. Teachings contrary to salvation are against essentials of the Christian faith.

 

[JonC]

Bible is not our final and only authority then?

You are talking about two different things. Heresy has absolutely nothing to do with Scripture as the final authority. It is literally a departure from orthodox belief.

Words have meanings, @Yeshua1. We do not get to say a car is an airplane because Scripture is our final authority.

For example, Arminianism is a heresy to Calvinism. Infant baptism is a heresy to Baptists. Believers baptism is a heresy to historical Calvinism. Reformed theology is a heresy to Catholics.

 

[church mouse guy]

You are talking about two different things. Heresy has absolutely nothing to do with Scripture as the final authority. It is literally a departure from orthodox belief.

Words have meanings, @Yeshua1. We do not get to say a car is an airplane because Scripture is our final authority.

For example, Arminianism is a heresy to Calvinism. Infant baptism is a heresy to Baptists. Believers baptism is a heresy to historical Calvinism. Reformed theology is a heresy to Catholics.

Baptism is not an essential doctrine & does not arise to the level of heresy.

 

[JonC]

Baptism is not an essential doctrine & does not arise to the level of heresy.

Does if you are a Baptist.


Definition of heresy


1a: adherence to a religious opinion contrary to church dogma. They were accused of heresy.
b: denial of a revealed truth by a baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church
c: an opinion or doctrine contrary to church dogma
2a: dissent or deviation from a dominant theory, opinion, or practiceTo disagree with the party leadership was heresy.
b: an opinion, doctrine, or practice contrary to the truth or to generally accepted beliefs or standardsour democratic heresy which holds that … truth is to be found by majority vote— M. W. Straight

 

[atpollard]

What standard do we use, and when does something move from difference of opinion to actually heresy then?

I go by the Nicene Creed. Anything that contradicts the Nicene Creed tends to smell ‘heretical’ rather than heterodox or orthodox. Contradicting the CLEAR teaching of scripture is the final litmus test, but the Nicene Creed provides a good early warning litmus test.

 

[church mouse guy]

Does if you are a Baptist.


Definition of heresy


1a: adherence to a religious opinion contrary to church dogma. They were accused of heresy.
b: denial of a revealed truth by a baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church
c: an opinion or doctrine contrary to church dogma
2a: dissent or deviation from a dominant theory, opinion, or practiceTo disagree with the party leadership was heresy.
b: an opinion, doctrine, or practice contrary to the truth or to generally accepted beliefs or standardsour democratic heresy which holds that … truth is to be found by majority vote— M. W. Straight

So you really believe what Webster says on this that someone not baptized will go to hell?

 

[37818]

I go by the Nicene Creed. Anything that contradicts the Nicene Creed tends to smell ‘heretical’ rather than heterodox or orthodox. Contradicting the CLEAR teaching of scripture is the final litmus test, but the Nicene Creed provides a good early warning litmus test.

The Nicene Creed is false on a few points. And typically those who go by that Roman Cathoiic dogma place it over what the written word of God teaches. Ok, you are not claiming to place it over God's word.

Here is what I am going to ask you to do. Provide Biblical Scripture for portions of it. Are you up to that task?

 

[37818]

The Nicene Creed:

Πιστεύομεν εἰς ἕνα Θεὸν Πατέρα παντοκράτορα
ποιητὴν οὐρανοῦ καὶ γῆς ὁρατῶν τε πάντων καὶ ἀοράτων·
καὶ εἰς ἕνα Κύριον Ἰησοῦν Χριστὸν
τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ Θεοῦ τὸν Μονογενῆ,
τὸν ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς γεννηθέντα πρὸ πάντων τῶν αἰώνων,
Φῶς ἐκ Φωτός,
Θεὸν ἀληθινὸν ἐκ Θεοῦ ἀληθινοῦ,
γεννηθέντα οὐ ποιηθέντα,
ὁμοούσιον τῷ Πατρί,
δι' οὗ τὰ πάντα ἐγένετο·
τὸν δι' ἡμᾶς τοὺς ἀνθρώπους καὶ διὰ τὴν ἡμετέραν σωτηρίαν κατελθόντα ἐκ τῶν οὐρανῶν,
καὶ σαρκωθέντα ἐκ Πνεύματος Ἁγίου καὶ Μαρίας τῆς παρθένου,
καὶ ἐνανθρωπήσαντα,
σταυρωθέντα τε ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν ἐπὶ Ποντίου Πιλάτου,
καὶ παθόντα, καὶ ταφέντα,
καὶ ἀναστάντα τῇ τρίτῃ ἡμέρᾳ κατὰ τὰς γραφὰς,
καὶ ἀνελθόντα εἰς τοὺς οὐρανοὺς,
καὶ καθεζόμενον ἐν δεξιᾷ τοῦ Πατρὸς,
καὶ πάλιν ἐρχόμενον μετὰ δόξης κρῖναι ζῶντας καὶ νεκρούς,
οὗ τῆς βασιλείας οὐκ ἔσται τέλος·
καὶ εἰς τὸ Πνεῦμα τὸ Ἅγιον, τὸ Κύριον καὶ Ζωοποιόν,
τὸ ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς ἐκπορευόμενον,
τὸ σὺν Πατρὶ καὶ Υἱῷ συμπροσκυνούμενον καὶ συνδοξαζόμενον,
τὸ λαλῆσαν διὰ τῶν προφητῶν·
εἰς μίαν ἁγίαν καθολικὴν καὶ ἀποστολικὴν ἐκκλησίαν·
ὁμολογοῦμεν ἓν βάπτισμα εἰς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν·
προσδοκῶμεν ἀνάστασιν νεκρῶν,
καὶ ζωὴν τοῦ μέλλοντος αἰῶνος. ἀμήν.

 

[atpollard]

The Nicene Creed:

Πιστεύομεν εἰς ἕνα Θεὸν Πατέρα παντοκράτορα
ποιητὴν οὐρανοῦ καὶ γῆς ὁρατῶν τε πάντων καὶ ἀοράτων·
καὶ εἰς ἕνα Κύριον Ἰησοῦν Χριστὸν
τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ Θεοῦ τὸν Μονογενῆ,
τὸν ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς γεννηθέντα πρὸ πάντων τῶν αἰώνων,
Φῶς ἐκ Φωτός,
Θεὸν ἀληθινὸν ἐκ Θεοῦ ἀληθινοῦ,
γεννηθέντα οὐ ποιηθέντα,
ὁμοούσιον τῷ Πατρί,
δι' οὗ τὰ πάντα ἐγένετο·
τὸν δι' ἡμᾶς τοὺς ἀνθρώπους καὶ διὰ τὴν ἡμετέραν σωτηρίαν κατελθόντα ἐκ τῶν οὐρανῶν,
καὶ σαρκωθέντα ἐκ Πνεύματος Ἁγίου καὶ Μαρίας τῆς παρθένου,
καὶ ἐνανθρωπήσαντα,
σταυρωθέντα τε ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν ἐπὶ Ποντίου Πιλάτου,
καὶ παθόντα, καὶ ταφέντα,
καὶ ἀναστάντα τῇ τρίτῃ ἡμέρᾳ κατὰ τὰς γραφὰς,
καὶ ἀνελθόντα εἰς τοὺς οὐρανοὺς,
καὶ καθεζόμενον ἐν δεξιᾷ τοῦ Πατρὸς,
καὶ πάλιν ἐρχόμενον μετὰ δόξης κρῖναι ζῶντας καὶ νεκρούς,
οὗ τῆς βασιλείας οὐκ ἔσται τέλος·
καὶ εἰς τὸ Πνεῦμα τὸ Ἅγιον, τὸ Κύριον καὶ Ζωοποιόν,
τὸ ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς ἐκπορευόμενον,
τὸ σὺν Πατρὶ καὶ Υἱῷ συμπροσκυνούμενον καὶ συνδοξαζόμενον,
τὸ λαλῆσαν διὰ τῶν προφητῶν·
εἰς μίαν ἁγίαν καθολικὴν καὶ ἀποστολικὴν ἐκκλησίαν·
ὁμολογοῦμεν ἓν βάπτισμα εἰς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν·
προσδοκῶμεν ἀνάστασιν νεκρῶν,
καὶ ζωὴν τοῦ μέλλοντος αἰῶνος. ἀμήν.

That is not “portions”.
Could you be more specific on what part of the Nicene creed you find HERETICAL?

נוסח ועידת ניקיאה
אני מאמין באלוהים אחד, האב הכול יכול, בורא שמיים וארץ, כל הגלוי וכל הסמוי. ובאדון אחד, ישוע המשיח, בן יחיד לאלוהים, אשר נולד מן האב לפני כל הדורות. אל מאל, אור מאור, אל אמת מאל אמת. לא נברא כי אם מולד; עצמו עצם האב ועל ידו נעשה הכל, בעבורנו, בני האדם, ולמען ישענו ירד מן השמיים; ונהיה בשר מרוח הקודש ברחם מרים הבתולה ונעשה אדם. נצלב למעננו, סבל בימי פונסיוס פילטוס, ונקבר. וביום השלישי קם לתחיה כדבר הכתוב, ועלה השמיימה, והוא יושב לימין האב. ושוב ישוב בהוד לשפוט את החיים ואת המתים ולא יהיה קץ למלכותו. אני מאמין ברוח הקודש, האדון, המחייה, הנובע מהאב ומהבן. לו סוגדים ולו נותנים יקר – כלאב וכלבן, והוא אשר דיבר בפני הנביאים. אני מאמין בכנסייה האחת, הקדושה, הכוללת והשליחית, ואני מכיר בכך שישנה טבילה אחת למחילת החטאים, ומצפה לתחיית המתים ולחיי העולם הבא. אמן.​

... otherwise my response is “No. I have no intention of Scripturally proving every word in the Nicene Creed.”

 

[37818]

ὁμολογοῦμεν ἓν βάπτισμα εἰς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν·

We confess
one
baptism
into
forgiveness
of sins.

Where does the word of God teach this?