How then do we really define heresy?

[37818]

That is not “portions”.
Could you be more specific on what part of the Nicene creed you find HERETICAL?

... otherwise my response is “No. I have no intention of Scripturally proving every word in the Nicene Creed.”

That was the whole text in its Greek from. The first one is a matter of salvation. Post #60.
I said portions.

 

[37818]

נוסח ועידת ניקיאה

The Nicene Creed was not written in Hebrew. It was written in Greek.

 

[atpollard]

ὁμολογοῦμεν ἓν βάπτισμα εἰς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν·

We confess
one
baptism
into
forgiveness
of sins.

Where does the word of God teach this?

One Baptism:
[Ephesians 4:4-6 NASB] 4 [There is] one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

John the Baptist Typology:
[Mark 1:4 NASB] 4 John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.
[Luke 3:3 NASB] 3 And he came into all the district around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins;

Acts Church reality:
[Acts 2:38 NASB] 38 Peter [said] to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
[Acts 22:16 NASB] 16 'Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.'

 

[atpollard]

נוסח ועידת ניקיאה

The Nicene Creed was not written in Hebrew. It was written in Greek.

This entire conversation was not written in Greek, it was written in English. Your use of Greek was intended as an act of intimidation. I was not intimidated and merely wanted to demonstrate that I could paste the creed in a foreign language as well. Would you have preferred Latin? I am sure the creed was copied many times in Latin.

 

[Yeshua1]

You are talking about two different things. Heresy has absolutely nothing to do with Scripture as the final authority. It is literally a departure from orthodox belief.

Words have meanings, @Yeshua1. We do not get to say a car is an airplane because Scripture is our final authority.

For example, Arminianism is a heresy to Calvinism. Infant baptism is a heresy to Baptists. Believers baptism is a heresy to historical Calvinism. Reformed theology is a heresy to Catholics.

My point is that those are issues that can have different held positions and beliefs, issues that we can disagree upon, but per the scriptures, do not rise to level of heresy!

 

[Yeshua1]

The text refers to sectarianism by reason of causing divivisions. But as I was using the term, teachings contrary to truth. Sometimes the real truth is wrongly said to be false.
Secondary errors are not matters of salvation. Teachings contrary to salvation are against essentials of the Christian faith.

I agree with you that much of what we discuss and disagree on are secondary issues, what causes them to arise to being heresy then?

 

[Yeshua1]

Baptism is not an essential doctrine & does not arise to the level of heresy.

The only item that JonC listed that I would see as being actual heresy would be RC doctrine!

 

[Yeshua1]

Does if you are a Baptist.


Definition of heresy


1a: adherence to a religious opinion contrary to church dogma. They were accused of heresy.
b: denial of a revealed truth by a baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church
c: an opinion or doctrine contrary to church dogma
2a: dissent or deviation from a dominant theory, opinion, or practiceTo disagree with the party leadership was heresy.
b: an opinion, doctrine, or practice contrary to the truth or to generally accepted beliefs or standardsour democratic heresy which holds that … truth is to be found by majority vote— M. W. Straight

Not per the bible!

 

[37818]

One Baptism:
[Ephesians 4:4-6 NASB] 4 [There is] one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

John the Baptist Typology:
[Mark 1:4 NASB] 4 John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.
[Luke 3:3 NASB] 3 And he came into all the district around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins;

Acts Church reality:
[Acts 2:38 NASB] 38 Peter [said] to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
[Acts 22:16 NASB] 16 'Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and .'

None of these passages teach immersion for the forgiveness of sins.

In Acts 22:16 for example, the Saul was instructed to do three things.
First, "get up."
Second, "be baptize."
And the third, "wash away your sins, calling on His name."

In Acts 2:38, Two things were instructed.
Repent.
Second, be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins. Which is not just the baptism. Forgivness of sins is in Jesus Christ, not the baptism.
And BTW te "into" is by RC interpreted to mean "in order to."

 

[Yeshua1]

I go by the Nicene Creed. Anything that contradicts the Nicene Creed tends to smell ‘heretical’ rather than heterodox or orthodox. Contradicting the CLEAR teaching of scripture is the final litmus test, but the Nicene Creed provides a good early warning litmus test.

Mine would be the 1689 LBCF, but the final authority would still be the scriptures themselves!

 

[Yeshua1]

So you really believe what Webster says on this that someone not baptized will go to hell?

or who holds to infant baptism, or different eschatology, etc!

 

[Yeshua1]

ὁμολογοῦμεν ἓν βάπτισμα εἰς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν·

We confess
one
baptism
into
forgiveness
of sins.

Where does the word of God teach this?

It doesn't!

 

[Yeshua1]

None of these passages teach immersion for the forgiveness of sins.

In Acts 22:16 for example, the Saul was instructed to do three things.
First, "get up."
Second, "be baptize."
And the third, "wash away your sins, calling on His name."

In Acts 2:38, Two things were instructed.
Repent.
Second, be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins. Which is not just the baptism. Forgivness of sins is in Jesus Christ, not the baptism.
And BTW te "into" is by RC interpreted to mean "in order to."

Think all of the Baptists here would agree with that view of what the scriptures teach about water baptism, as against what Rome would hold!

 

[37818]

Your use of Greek was intended as an act of intimidation.

I am sorry you feel that way. That was not my intention. The real sore point, for me, is the Nicene Creed false teaching, "the only begotten Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages, . . ." The word of God teaches no such thing. And Arianism, which the creed is suppost to be against is rooted in that false notion. The creed tries to fix this by arguing, "begotten not made." Without the added words "not made" it is Arianism! The only begotten Son of God was not begotten nor made to be the Son. His Sonship has no cause. The only begotten Son is the uncaused Son of God. He is YHWH even as His Father is YHWH. The One YHWH.

 

[37818]

It doesn't!

It does not what?

 

[atpollard]

Mine would be the 1689 LBCF, but the final authority would still be the scriptures themselves!

I like it, but it is a little long for a quick litmus test.

 

[Yeshua1]

I am sorry you feel that way. That was not my intention. The real sore point, for me, is the Nicene Creed false teaching, "the only begotten Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages, . . ." The word of God teaches no such thing. And Arianism, which the creed is suppost to be against is rooted in that false notion. The creed tries to fix this by arguing, "begotten not made." Without the added words "not made" it is Arianism! The only begotten Son of God was not begotten nor made to be the Son. His Sonship has no cause. The only begotten Son is the uncaused Son of God. He is YHWH even as His Father is YHWH. The One YHWH.

He is the One who was eternally generated from and by His Father as the Eternal Word of God!
Eternal Sonship, begotten asserts his deity, not degrades it!

 

[MB]

Baptism is not an essential doctrine & does not arise to the level of heresy.

Not essential.Christ said; ( "do this in remembrance of me" ) Instruction from the Lord may not be important to you. It would be heresy to ignore the instruction of Christ.
MB

 

[Yeshua1]

It does not what?

Scriptures do not teach baptismal Regeneration!

 

[Yeshua1]

Romans 8

Not essential.Christ said; ( "do this in remembrance of me" ) Instruction from the Lord may not be important to you. It would be heresy to ignore the instruction of Christ.
MB

Not essential as in must be performed for a sinner to be saved, nor essential as to what mode is used!