I had no idea ME was supposed to be derogatory. It's an accurate description, isn't it? The doctrine states that if you have "X" amount of unconfessed sin when you die (the value for X is unknown even by ME advocates), then you end up excluded from the blessings of the millenium and you are cast into "outer darkness", "hell", or "never-ending fire" or some combination of the above (ME folks can't agree on where they go, either) for 1,000 years. Millenium. Exclusion. ME. What's derogatory?
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How to defeat the ME heresy
- Thread starter npetreley
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After thinking about it a moment, I'm guessing the exclusion part of the doctrine is like the red-haired stepchild. From their perspective, it is the distasteful part of the doctrine, so they don't like people bringing it to others' attention.Amy.G said:
Personally, I find the term "Kingdom Salvation" at least as shameful as ME, if not more so. KS focuses on being saved by works, which is about as heretical a doctrine as you can get. I would guess that even the ME folks agree, since the moment you asked the KS-related question about "whose righteousness" most of them fled like they were being chased by the big bad boogey man, and the rest did a dance around the question that would impress even John Travolta.
Plain Old Bill
New Member
Never heard the term before but I've heard different descriptions of what you are talking about. Sounds a little like purgatory to me. I don't buy it for myself ,but is it far out enough to burn somebody at the stake?:godisgood:
Only if it's a porterhouse.Plain Old Bill said:
Seriously, how far out does it have to be to call it heresy? The ME folks present it as an additional "gospel of the kingdom", apart from the gospel of grace. Galatians says that if anyone preach a gospel (which is not a gospel at all) other than that which he (Paul) preached, let them be accursed. It is very clear that the KS/ME gospel is not the same as the gospel of grace Paul preached. Indeed, it much more closely resembles a gospel of works Paul condemned. So is it that "far out there" or not?
Regardless of how you answer that, we don't burn people at the stea..I mean stake anymore. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't call a heresy "heresy" when we see it.
They also call it Soul Salvation as they say the spirit and soul are separate. The spirit is saved eternally when you accept Christ as Savior, but the soul is yet to be saved. That will not happen until the JSOC and if you haven't been obedient and faithful (had enough good works) you will be excluded from the Millennial kingdom and you (your soul) will spend that 1000 years in hell. After this, your soul will be saved.Plain Old Bill said:
It has never been explained to me how your spirit can go to heaven and your soul go to hell at the same time.
Jesus said "no one can snatch them out of My hand". I guess He didn't have such a good grip on some people's souls.
Brother Bob
New Member
Greek for thousand
5507
cilioi
chilioi
khil'-ee-oy
plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand:--thousand.
chilioi is the Greek word for thousand in Rev. and its an uncertain affinity. Takes you back to the Jewish doctrine doesn't it, "a time".
It could be 1 day, or it could be as yesterday 0.
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5507
cilioi
chilioi
khil'-ee-oy
plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand:--thousand.
chilioi is the Greek word for thousand in Rev. and its an uncertain affinity. Takes you back to the Jewish doctrine doesn't it, "a time".
It could be 1 day, or it could be as yesterday 0.
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I think HoG did a good job of explaining it. And if that was what we used to speak of ourselves it would be okay to simply shorten it to the initials, however that is not how we refer to ourselves. The biggest reason is because the term isn't Biblical.
The Biblical name for the doctrine is gospel of the kingdom. This doctrine does speak to who is accepted into the kingdom and who is not. However the term was derived by opponents and it is not something that is simply used to talk about what we believe, but it is a term that is used to stir up emotions against what we teach.
Just like the terms pro-life and anti-abortion. While technically anti-abortion is a correct term those that value human life even before it is born do not refer to themselves as anit-abortionists, but that is a derogatory term that is used by opponents to stir up emotions against pro-lifers.
Same thing here. If it wasn't then they wouldn't refer to us in that way they would simply refer to us as we refer to ourselves. But as you can plainly see in this thread and many others that is not the case.
Well that's what a number of people say before they actually study the matter out. And that's another claim that opponents throw out there to stir up the emotions of others against what we have stated because much of the "Catholic" doctrine has a bad name in evangelical circles, so you can throw "Catholic" terms around and it scares people away before you even get started.
It's sad that we are in such a state today, but it is what it is.
Careful or you will be accused of not knowing much about the Bible in short order. I gave an example of two of my friends that don't agree, but haven't called me a heretic and it was said they didn't know much about the Scripture or they would be calling me a heretic too.
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
Point to remember:
initials JJump comes up with are ok.
initials anyone else comes up with is derogatory.....
initials JJump comes up with are ok.
initials anyone else comes up with is derogatory.....
So PastorSBC do you really think that abortionists came up with the term anti-abortionists as a term of endearment?
And do you really think opponents of the gospel of the kingdom came up with Millenial Exclusionists as a term of endearment?
Come now I think you are smarter than that.
Point of the matter is again it is okay to disagree, but one can do it with class and dignity. If a term is considered derogatory and offends another saved individual you shouldn't use it.
But again when you don't have to answer for anything you do whether offensive or not it doesn't really matter how you speak to another saved individual. I guess when the Bible says by this they shall know you are Mine if you love one another was really supposed to say if you offend each other as much as possible without repent.
Some "Christians" have a funny way of showing love these days. Last time I checked intentionally offending someone wasn't an act of love. Do you consider that an act of love PastorSBC? Just curious.
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