How to defeat the ME heresy

[J. Jump]

I just didn know that was it's official name.

Come on Amy I was born at night, but it wasn't last night.

 

[npetreley]

I never said I hadn't heard it before. I just didn know that was it's official name.

I really do hate calling it a gospel though. It's not the gospel I believe in.

More important, any other gospel is no gospel at all, and anyone who preaches another "gospel", well, you know the rest.

 

[Amy.G]

How can we call it "Gospel of the Kingdom" when there is no "good news" found in your theology... It is all works based...

I don't care what we call it... ME, GOK, or last year it was abbreviated KE for Kingdom Exclusion....

It is still false doctrine.

Thank you Tim. I was beginning to think NP, TC Greek and me were about the only ones on this board that thought this doctrine was false.

And you're right. There is no good news in it.

 

[J. Jump]

How can we call it "Gospel of the Kingdom" when there is no "good news" found in your theology

So Tim you don't think ruling and reigning with the King of kings and the Lord of lords for 1,000 years is good news? I personally think it is AWESOME news. Just think the King of the earth wants me an absolute NOBODY to have a place in His kingdom. Outside of everlasting life that's the best news I've ever heard.

How can you say there is "no" good news?

 

[webdog]

I guess James (and myself) are idiots for thinking that it meant "If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there."

You would be if you take that verse out of the context intended to support your doctrine.

 

[webdog]

So Tim you don't think ruling and reigning with the King of kings and the Lord of lords for 1,000 years is good news? I personally think it is AWESOME news. Just think the King of the earth wants me an absolute NOBODY to have a place in His kingdom. Outside of everlasting life that's the best news I've ever heard.

How can you say there is "no" good news?

How is it good news that the majority take the broad path...and the kicker...we think we may be on the narrow path, but we are not? Where's the good news there?

 

[npetreley]

How is it good news that the majority take the broad path...and the kicker...we think we may be on the narrow path, but we are not? Where's the good news there?

Oh, oh, better still. Here's the good news of the gospel! You're released from bondage to the law! Here's the so-called good news of the ME non-gospel! You're back into bondage to the law! (Wow, that first gospel was short lived...)

 

[J. Jump]

How is it good news that the majority take the broad path...and the kicker...we think we may be on the narrow path, but we are not? Where's the good news there?

That's not good news. And no one has ever said it is.

And by the way I didn't make up the broad way and narrow way analogy. That was God Himself. He is the one that has said despite people being "saved" they are still far more interested in living for themselves than they are for Him. He doesn't want it that way. He would have it that all would come to repentance, but that's just not going to happen. And there are a number of reasons why that is and has been over the years.

But the same argument could be said of your theology, because your theology says that the broad road folks are the unsaved and the narrow folks are the saved. So where is the good news that the majority take the broad path that leads to an everlasting fire? And the kicker . . . there are folks that think they are on the narrow path, but they are not.

See this is no argument at all. To say because there is bad news negates the good news is just plain silly. The gospel of grace through faith apart from works has a negative side to it as well. But no one is claiming that the gospel of grace doesn't have any good news in it.

 

[J. Jump]

You're released from bondage to the law!

npetreley tell me which one of these is okay for us today?

1. I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery; 7 you shall have no other gods before me.

2. You shall not make for yourself an idol,

3. You shall not bow down to them or worship them

4. You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God

5. You shall not murder

6. Neither shall you commit adultery

7. Neither shall you steal

8. Neither shall you bear false witness against your neighbour

9. Neither shall you covet your neighbour’s wife. Neither shall you desire your neighbour’s house, or field, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour.

Just curious which one of these is okay for today? Or is it all of them, because we are no longer under the bondage of the law right? So I can cheat on my wife all I want to? Or how about stealing. I may be needing a new computer here in a few days/weeks. So it will be okay for me to find the one I like and just go steal it right?

How about carving out a wood idol and worshipping it instead of God? Is that okay today? Remember we are no longer under the bondage of the law.

 

[Hope of Glory]

It has never been explained to me how your spirit can go to heaven and your soul go to hell at the same time.

Well, this is another untruth, since it has been explained on several different occasions. Just because you don't like the answer does not mean that it has not been presented.

But, tell me, after the crucifixion of Jesus, how did his body go into the tomb, his spirit go to be with the Father, and his soul go to hell?

 

[Hope of Glory]

Thank you Tim. I was beginning to think NP, TC Greek and me were about the only ones on this board that thought this doctrine was false.

And you're right. There is no good news in it.

No, it's just that you're the only ones who are vocally asinine about it. Others, such as John of Japan are gracious about it. I guess if you don't do it vituperously, it's just not Baptist enough for you to notice it.

 

[Hope of Glory]

How is it good news that the majority take the broad path...and the kicker...we think we may be on the narrow path, but we are not? Where's the good news there?

How is it good news that the majority of humans will reject the offer of being saved forever and ever and instead will spend the rest of eternity in the lake of fire?

 

[Hope of Glory]

Point to remember:

initials JJump comes up with are ok.

initials anyone else comes up with is derogatory.....

OK, I have a new name for Amy G and npetreley: GD

Gospel Deniars

They deny the gospel of the kingdom, so it's good enough for 'em.

Same idea as ME, btw, except I don't tend to take offense, even if some is given.

Edited to add: The preceding is intended as an example, not as a personal statement.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Excuse me,

Please define what is "kingdom"? Are 'kingdom of God', & 'kingdom of heaven', the same?

For example, ME inteprets Gal. 5:19-21 - "kingdom of God" means 1000 years.

How can you be sure that 'kingdom of God' means 1000 years?

Most Christians understand 'kingdom of God' of Gal. 5:21 speaks of eternal life with Christ.

Same with John 3:3, Christ tells us, we must be born again to enter the kingdom of God. It is speak of salvation not millennial.

I never hear any pastors prior Gary Whipple, Joey Faust, and others saying of 'kingdom of God' of John 3:3 means millennial.

Most Christians understand John 3:3 talking about salvation and eternal life.

And what's more? John 3:36 speaks very clear about salvation, if anyone believing in Christ shall have eternal life, if anyone do not believing in Christ, shall suffer the wrath of God, send to the lake of fire. There is not word 'a thousand years' mentioned in John 3:3, 36.

Teachers like Faust have to be careful by added words unto God's Word of Rev. 22:18. God would do something with teachers.

We better leave God's Word alone, accept and believe everything what God's Word saying, follow them. We cannot change, twist, removed, or add any words unto God's Word. We have to honor God's Word.

Millennial Exclusion is a false doctrine.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[skypair]

ME stands for Millenial Exclusion, ... believe in and preach the gospel of the kingdom.

You mean, basically, the OT gospel. It was the Jews under the DAVIDIC COVENANT who were promised the kingdom you describe.

Would you describe yourselves as "replacement theologists" as well?

The gospel of the kingdom is the good news for those that are spiritually alive in Christ, that they can rule and reign with the King of kings and the Lord of lords in His coming kingdom if they will believe and live a life of obedience, faithfulness and overcoming (Satan, the flesh and the world).

This little addendum suggests not only the OT gospel but the 70th week version of it. "Christian" "overcomers" are found in Rev 2-3 that precisely fit this description. They are "left behing" at the rapture., JJ, and have the opportunity to convert and survive or be resurrected into the MK on earth. From there, Christ gives them such promises as "you won't be hurt by the 2nd death," (2:11); "give power over the nations," 2:26; "Grant to sit with Me on My throne even as I also overcame and am set down with My Father in His throne," (3:21).

Of course, those who don't make it into the MK are condemned to hell and then (post GWT) to the lake of fire --- FOREVER!!

skypair

 

[Amy.G]

OK, I have a new name for Amy G and npetreley: GD

Gospel Deniars

They deny the gospel of the kingdom, so it's good enough for 'em.

Same idea as ME, btw, except I don't tend to take offense, even if some is given.

Edited to add: The preceding is intended as an example, not as a personal statement.

Put a K in front of GD and you'll have it right.

Kingdom Gospel Deniars

I don't deny the true gospel of God and anyone who has read my posts knows that.

 

[skypair]

And that's another claim [purgatory] that opponents throw out there to stir up the emotions of others against what we have stated because much of the "Catholic" doctrine has a bad name in evangelical circles, so you can throw "Catholic" terms around and it scares people away before you even get started.

Perhaps you could explain why ME isn't a blend of Catholic purgatory added to OT gospel, We've got it that you believe they go to hell in Mt 25:14-30 from Christ's judgment seat. Where do they come back?

Those who don't let Christ work through them go through HELL ON EARTH. For disobedience Christians TODAY is hell! Dr Rogers used to say there is no one on earth as miserable as a carnal Christian!

And those believers who happen to be disobedient in the MK/1000 year reign of Christ on earth, they will receive the punishment they deserve then and there -- from the "rod of iron!"

In fact, I like to cite Rom 5:10 in this regard. Saved from hell in eternity by His death -- save from hell on earth by His life!

There is NO hell/pit or any such thing for believers.


skypair

 

[skypair]

npetreley tell me which one of these is okay for us today?

1. I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery; 7 you shall have no other gods before me.

How about this one? He didn't bring US out of the land of Egypt. And those whom He did rescue from Egypt consider Christ "another God" as of now.

But on top of this purgatory and OT gospel thing, y'all are not legalists too, are you? Because another thing that Christ freed us from is the Mosaic law. Let me guess. Would better initials for your group be SDA?

skypair

 

[J. Jump]

So skypair since God didn't deliver us out of Egypt it's okay for us to serve other gods?

 

[skypair]

I would agree with you [re: "hell on earth" and NOT afterward for believers], except I can't find any scripture to back it up.

I just did. Rom 5:10. 2Pet 1 gives insight here as well -- forget their sins are forgiven and can't see far off. Eph 5:6-7 The wrath of God is on the children of disobedience --- and on you too if you are partakers with them.

And what does Rom 8:38-39 -- that NOTHING can separate us from the love of God. Are you saying that God or Christ is going to hell with the ME'ers who don't have enough good works? (And BTW -- what David said was that the KNOWLEDGE of God is everywhere, even in sheol -- not His presence.).

skypair