Husbands, Love your Wives

I think we should carefully unpack the words used. The "submit" Paul uses in Ephesians 5 is a different word than the "obey" he uses in 6:1. Why is that? It's worth discussing...I feel very safe in saying that the nature of the obedience is different...otherwise, Paul would have used the same word, and he didn't.

Submit: greek hupostasso (Ephesians 5:22)
1) to arrange under, to subordinate
2) to subject, put in subjection
3) to subject one's self
4) to submit to one's control
5) to yield to one's admonition or advice 6) to obey, be subject
++++
A Greek military term meaning "to arrange [troop divisions] in a military fashion under the command of a leader". In non-military use, it was "a voluntary attitude of giving in, cooperating, assuming responsibility, and carrying a burden".

Obey: greek hupakouo (Ephesians 6:1)

1) to listen, to harken
a) of one who on the knock at the door comes to listen who it is, (the duty of a porter)
2) to harken to a command a) to obey, be obedient to, submit to

thoughts? Or is it just gas on the fire?

 

Nicely put........that's the way I understand it also.

 

Exactly... see we can learn from a woman!!:laugh:

Oh, did I say that?

 

No conditions. No prid pro quos.

The man is commanded to love his wife, though she may be insubmissive.

The woman is commanded to obey her husband, even if he isn't loving.

Here endeth the lesson.

 

Go, TinyTim!!!

Heh, the bible does say wives are to respect their husbands. This is most important.

 

Not so fast professor!!!
I have a question...

Case scenario:
An unloving husband beats his wife, and then commands her to not tell anyone, what should she do?

Case Scenario: An unloving husband decides he wants another woman in bed with his wife, he tells his wife that this is how it is going to be.... What should she do?

Furthermore, when you use the word "obey" is that with the same definition that children should "obey" their parents?

 

See my post above.

Those are two different greek words. If it means exactly the same thing, then why would Paul use different words, especially within the same letter, just a few verses removed from each other?

Carry on...

 

*sigh* Okay, I guess I'm compelled to post what would be a needless disclaimer if all parties of this conversation were thinking rationally, or not attempting to redefine submission, obedience (I don't mean you, rbell) and/or the gender roles of the family.

Now, I don't think you're irrational, and I know you don't think I really meant that anyone should obey a command to be immoral or, that anyone in a time of peace should remain in a perilous situation. "We must obey God rather than man" applies to everyone. You and I know that.

What I do think you're doing is trying to take exceptions that apply only to extreme situations and use them to rationalize the normal, everyday sin of an independent, self-willed spirit that all those under authority tend to display. Almost every time the subject of a woman's role and duty in marriage is discussed, someone will try to mitigate those commands by saying that the man is commanded to love his wife. They want to put conditions on the command to the woman and say that before she must obey, the man must be doing certain things. More than that, they try to make the command to mean that the man must be obedient to the woman. Hence your use of Eph. 5:21.

The interesting thing is, that you almost never hear the reciprocal when the command for a man to love a woman is being discussed. I find it very telling that though in my post I put the same onus on the command to the man as I did on the command to the woman, you did not list any situations where a man may justly abdicate his duty to the woman.

But God's commands aren't conditional. The woman is to obey, and the man is to love, reciprocity not withstanding.

It's with the same definition that a Christian should obey Christ.

 

Great post, Scarlett. I absolutely agree.

 

I agree too Scarlett...
And Aaron, I think that we agree too.
I realized that the one example was extreme that I gave above, but the other one wasn't.

There are thousands of women that are being abused by their husbands.
This is not an extreme case, it happens everyday.
And then the husbands command their silence.

Before I agreed with you whole heartidly, I just wanted to make sure that you didn't advocate this type of submission.

Which you appear not to.

 

Wow, scarlett beautifully said. We do want to be loved and cherished for who we are. The whole cycle reciprocates itself, I think, when it is done the way intended.

 

Your post summed up is simply this, if men were as perfect as Christ, women would find it easier to obey them.

The problem is that isn't true. (Not only that, you've raised an unattainable standard of faultless perfection, the slightest infraction of which justifies in the minds of many their disobedience and self-will.) All people everywhere find it difficult to trust and obey God, and what loutish behavior has He been guilty of lately? You see, the real problem with obedience isn't that one finds herself married to a jerk, the real problem is a sinful heart.

And the lack of trust? It really isn't the man that isn't trusted, it's God. Who was it that commanded the woman to be subject to her husband? God did, and if a woman can't do that, it's not because she can't trust the man, it's because she can't trust the God who gave her that command, and who gave her the man to whom she must submit.

 

Aaron, in your mind, what constitutes a woman not being in subjection to her husband?

Does she have to agree 100% of the time with him?
If he says he wants chicken for dinner, and she fixes turkey, is she sinning?

Marriage is a beautiful thing when both love each other enough to sacrifice for each other. I think that is what submitting to each other really means. The man should be willing to sacrifice his wants for the woman, and the woman should be willing to sacrifice her wants for the man.

Neither should be bossy.

 

Here's my 2 cents for what it's worth. I think God gave us each specific commands based on our needs as He created us. In my 29 years of marriage, I have learned that a man needs respect from his wife and perceives it as love. A woman needs to feel loved and special. Husbands and wives have different needs and we each need to be sensitive to these needs. This is how we show our love for one another and why God gave different commands to husbands and wives.

 

:thumbs: :thumbs:

 

Oh c'mon! That's exactly what you said. And I quote..."It's the fear of letting go and allowing yourself to be loved by a man who may or may not love you the way that Christ loved the church. Trusting a man that much takes deep, deep courage on a woman's part."

In other words, it would be so much easier if the woman had assurrance that her husband was a Prince Charming. But she's not supposed to trust a man. She's supposed to trust the God who gave her the command, to believe that He knows what He's doing, and can fulfill the promise He gave in 1 Pet. 3:1.

 

Why? Is fixing turkey less work? You judge. What does the Scripture say?

 

Aaron, you seem to consider yourself the boss and your wife the servant. That is an insult to her and to the God who created her.

A marriage is meant to be a team -- the two become one. Differences of opinions, when minor, are nothing to worry about. When major, are matters for prayer, so God can let you know which way to go.

Jesus said He did nothing apart from obedience to the Father. Men need to be that way, too. So do women. If both are obeying the Holy Spirit, then there will not be a problem with 'submission', for they are both submitting to God first and then, in caring for each other, to each other.