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Hyper-Calvinism

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J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Van said:
Nonsense. It is the false attribute claim that God must know everything imaginable, that denies His attribute of omnipotence, He has the power to choose not to know what He does not want to predestine. Duh
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So your God is not Omniscience, so has limited knowledge, is the false God of Open theism then?
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Hutch said:
Van,
Thanks for your comments. I am neither a Calvinist nor an Arminian. Even the point of C that you hold to. Do you hold to it as C taught it? C taught that if a person died in a backsliden, he wasn't saved to begin with. I have trouble with that.

1) The lost have limited spiritual ability, they can hear and understand and affirmatively respond to "spiritual milk" (which includes the fundamentals of the gospel) but cannot understand spiritual solid food, 1 Corinthians 3:1-3.

I think I would agree with your "1)" statement.

2) Our individual election for salvation occurs during our physical lifetime, not before creation. 1 Peter 2:9-10 clearly says once we were not a people (chosen for God's own possession) so we could not have been chosen individually before we physically existed. The passage also says once we had not obtained mercy, so again we could not have been chosen for salvation before we physically existed.

I'm not sure I can agree with "2)" because you used the phrase "individual election." My position is that God elected the plan for salvation, not the person. But perhaps it is a matter of semantics. If you are saving a person becomes one of the elect once they put their saving faith in Christ, then I would agree. Also, I believe God has a knowledge (because He is omniscient) of who will trust Him, but that His knowledge of that fact is not what determines it.
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You are fully arminian in soteriolgy, more akin to a Wesley view of common and prevalent Grace in salvation
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Van said:
Hi Hutch, I hold to once saved, always saved. Nothing a person can do after salvation will lose his or her salvation. And yes, I agree that those who claimed to believe, then renounced their faith were never actually saved, God never credited their faith as righteousness and transferred them into Christ.

Recall 1 Peter 1:3-5. Once you are saved, God has caused you to be born anew, He protects your future inheritance by His power. Again, my understanding of scripture is that a person can put their faith in Christ and not be "automatically" saved. For example Soil #2 of Matthew 13 put his faith in the gospel, but was not saved. He fell way because he lacked a deep root (deep commitment) to serve Christ no matter the earthly cost.

Election for Salvation is described in 2 Thessalonians 2:13. God chooses individuals for salvation through (1) sanctification by the Spirit and (2) faith in the truth. Thus no individual was chosen for salvation before they had "faith in the truth." Next, only God determines if a person's professed faith is actual living faith and not dead faith. Thus only if God credits a person's faith as righteousness, does God then set the person apart, transferring them from being "in Adam" (the realm of darkness) and into being "in Christ." So I am saying an individual person becomes "elect" or chosen when God credits their faith as righteousness, not when they profess faith in Christ.

Divine Knowledge in another topic that I suspect we hold differing views. But lets stick to discussing our differences on being chosen for salvation.
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Your position of Open theism as God has been noted
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
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JesusFan said:
One must be a 5 pointer to be a Calvinist period, and spiritual milk refers ONLY to babes in Christ, NOT to any lost sinner
And we who are the elect in Christ were indeed chosen in Him by God the father from eternity past period

So you totally misunderstand Calvinism, predestination, and election
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Please stop ranting.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
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Calvinism's doctrine is open theism. If God is not the author of sin, then open theism is being declared. Since Jesus did not know the time of His Return He was not Omniscient. Note how the defenders of false doctrine make charges rather than present explanations.
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Van said:
Calvinism's doctrine is open theism. If God is not the author of sin, then open theism is being declared. Since Jesus did not know the time of His Return He was not Omniscient. Note how the defenders of false doctrine make charges rather than present explanations.
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Jesus choose not to know the timing of His second coming as was exercising the limitations had while in Haman Flesh, but fully knows that date right now in heaven, and God knew the fall from eternity past, always had the Cross of Christ in view, did not need to see them fall before knowing it was happening
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
LOL, Jesus is said to be "all knowing" while in the flesh. Pay no attention to the non-stop unbiblical nonsense being posted to hide false doctrine.
Calvinism is an open theism doctrine, as they believe with many bible scholars, God does not cause us to sin, rather we are responsible for our sin. Exhaustive Determinism is unbiblical nonsense.
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Van said:
LOL, Jesus is said to be "all knowing" while in the flesh. Pay no attention to the non-stop unbiblical nonsense being posted to hide false doctrine.
Calvinism is an open theism doctrine, as they believe with many bible scholars, God does not cause us to sin, rather we are responsible for our sin. Exhaustive Determinism is unbiblical nonsense.
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You are the one that refers to exhaustive determinism in regards to God sovereignty van, no Calvinist here does, as its you keep peddling heresy of Open Theism
 
Hutch

Hutch

New Member
JesusFan said:
One must be a 5 pointer to be a Calvinist period, and spiritual milk refers ONLY to babes in Christ, NOT to any lost sinner
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I would agree with these two statements. Calvin taught a system of theology where it one point hinges upon the other. It's a package deal.
And I interpret the "milk of the Word" to be referring to simple truths of God's Word, as opposed to the deeper things of the Word. Babes in Christ are new believers, mostly untrained in the Word, and need to be carefully fed (discipled) before they can understand the deeper things.
 
Hutch

Hutch

New Member
kyredneck said:
So you still choose to ignore plain pronouns?:

29 For whom he foreknew, he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren:
30 and whom he foreordained, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. Ro 8
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Not ignoring pronouns, just interpreting differently.
29 For whom (the person who trusts Christ as Savior) He foreknew (God knew in eternity past who would respond to his offer of salvation) He also foreordained (what not who). What was foreordained was that those who trust Christ as Savior would be conformed to His image.
30 and whom he foreordained (not to salvation but ref to previous verse), them He also called..., justified..., glorified. In God's plan, those who trust Him for salvation, are called, justified, and glorified! Praise God from Whom all blessings flow!

My understanding of Rom 8:15-21 is that it is talking about service, not salvation.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Calvinism's doctrine is open theism. If God is not the author of sin, then open theism is being declared. Since Jesus did not know the time of His Return He was not Infinitely Omniscient only inherently Omniscient.

Jesus is said to be "all knowing" while in the flesh. Pay no attention to the non-stop unbiblical nonsense being posted to hide false doctrine. Calvinism is an open theism doctrine, as they believe with many bible scholars, God does not cause us to sin, rather we are responsible for our sin. Exhaustive Determinism is unbiblical nonsense.


 
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