I was sad when they hanged Saddam

[tragic_pizza]

"We" as in whom? Christians are always in the minority, and we don't make the laws. In fact Christians are to submit to the authorities that are above us, whatever those authorities may be. In Paul's day it was the government of Nero. Paul never complained or said anything against the governmental form of execution. He knew his fate. He was about to be beheaded for his faith. "I know that my departure is at hand," he said. "No one stood with me," at my last trial, he testified. He knew what lied ahead, and yet never said anything against capital punishment.
We are to submit to the government we have--we deserve. God, for the most part--gives us the government that we deserve. We are commanded to submit to it--whether that means captial punishment or not. Personally, I believe that capital punishment is Biblical, and that the principal set forth in Gen.9:6 has never been rescinded.

Genesis 9:6 Whoever sheds man's blood, by man will his blood be shed, for in the image of God made he man.

So we support the government when we agree with it?

 

[Gershom]

I was praying to the very last hour before he was hanged that God would touch him and he would accept Jesus as his personal Saviour. I know he did alot of horrible things but sin is sin and I would not wish Hell to anyone.

He was an unrepentant heathen murderer who deserved what he got.

 

[DHK]

So we support the government when we agree with it?

No, you have obviously missed my point.
We support our government whether we agree with it or not.
Paul submitted to the government, as did Peter, even though Nero was committing atrocities against the Christians. God was still on the throne. He sets up governments and he throws them down. All government is ordained of God. We are commanded of God to be good citizens and obey the ruling authorities over us. Support the government whether you agree with it or not. The only case where you may conscientiously disagree is when the government goes directly against the Word of God, and even then it must be a clear cut precedent, not just an opinion. Paul and Peter submitted to the government even though they were putting Christians to death.

 

[Gershom]

An unborn child has done nothing to be punished for. Saddam has done much...

There is no comparison between abortion and the death penalty except an aborted baby was given the death penalty without a trial.

Bingo. Pretty simple, ain't it?

 

[Alcott]

God passed the sentence and carried it out.

If God wants someone to die, does God need our help? Not so far.

Why did he order the Israelites to commit genocide against the Amalekites, isntead of striking them all dead himself?

As for our help, he doesn't need it for anything, yet he orders it. He could feed every hungry person, heal every disease, prevent every accident from happening. But let's just let HIM take care of all that and make no efforts; he doesn't need our help.

 

[JonC]

The Israelites must have rewritten history, and it found its way into the Bible. They were playing God.

 

[Marcia]

The Israelites must have rewritten history, and it found its way into the Bible. They were playing God.

 

[JonC]

Being sarcastic……sorry.

It’s late and I can’t sleep.
:BangHead:

 

[Claudia_T]

Jon,

I thought that what you said was funny


Claudia

 

[tragic_pizza]

No, you have obviously missed my point.
We support our government whether we agree with it or not.
Paul submitted to the government, as did Peter, even though Nero was committing atrocities against the Christians. God was still on the throne. He sets up governments and he throws them down. All government is ordained of God. We are commanded of God to be good citizens and obey the ruling authorities over us. Support the government whether you agree with it or not. The only case where you may conscientiously disagree is when the government goes directly against the Word of God, and even then it must be a clear cut precedent, not just an opinion. Paul and Peter submitted to the government even though they were putting Christians to death.

I think the death penalty goes against the Word. You don't.

Oh, well.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Killing is a stupid thing to do in any circumstance.

So you are saying that God is stupid? Because God commanded killing in a number of circumstances, including the extermination of Israel's enemies in Canaan, capital punishment under the Law, etc.

 

[tragic_pizza]

Larry, please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks.

 

[Pastor Larry]

I am not putting words in your mouth. I am asking (notice the question mark). I am asking how you reconcile your statement that all killing is stupid with God's command to kill.

Did God command stupidity? Is God stupid for killing people (e.g. Uzzah)?

I am curious as to how you reconcile this.

 

[tragic_pizza]

I am not putting words in your mouth. I am asking (notice the question mark). I am asking how you reconcile your statement that all killing is stupid with God's command to kill.

Did God command stupidity? Is God stupid for killing people (e.g. Uzzah)?

I am curious as to how you reconcile this.

Who has God told you to kill?

 

[Pastor Larry]

Nobody, but that's not the point. You said "Killing is a stupid thing to do in any circumstance." So I am asking how you reconcile that with what God said and does.

 

[tragic_pizza]

Nobody, but that's not the point. You said "Killing is a stupid thing to do in any circumstance." So I am asking how you reconcile that with what God said and does.

Well, when humans are able, from nothing, to create life, then I'll have a problem reconciling.

Y'see, you assume that my statement encompassed all of creation and the Creator. This is a wildly unlikely scenario under any circumstances. One would infer from such an unlikely interpretation of a single sentence that you were trying to win an argument, not support any real belief.

 

[DHK]

Who has God told you to kill?

Abortion is wrong. It is murder.
Revenge is wrong. It often is murder.
Other forms of murder result from an evil heart full of anger and hate.
Still others result from a warped sense of values such as euthanasia and assisted suicide.

Thus murder is wrong. No one has commanded anyone to kill in this day and age except for the government. Justice is in the hands of the government. It is the Muslim in an Islamic nation that thinks he has the right to kill such as in an "honor killing" where someone has defiled his sister. Though that is wrong, it takes place and often the government turns a blind eye. Here the government turns no blind eye, and justice is meterd out, and the culprit pays for his murder. It is the government that metes out justice.

However we live by the law of the land. If you live in Singapore you may be fined or jailed for spitting on the sidewalk or littering. You live according to the law. You will also face the death penalty for bringing in illicit drugs. You live by the law of the land whether you agree with it or not. You have no choice in this debate whether you agree with capital punishment or not. You must live by the law of the land. The only choice some of you have is that you are able to change that law by electing your government officials in your state, and repealing some of your laws. Most nations don't have that choice.
Saudia Arabia will cut off fingers for those who steal. You live and face the consequences for the crimes done in the land that you live. God sets up governments and brings them down. We live under them and are to obey them, no matter what the law is. Nero's law wasn't very pretty in Paul and Peter's day; but the submitted themselves to it.

 

[tragic_pizza]

Abortion is wrong. It is murder.
Revenge is wrong. It often is murder.
Other forms of murder result from an evil heart full of anger and hate.
Still others result from a warped sense of values such as euthanasia and assisted suicide.

Thus murder is wrong. No one has commanded anyone to kill in this day and age except for the government. Justice is in the hands of the government. It is the Muslim in an Islamic nation that thinks he has the right to kill such as in an "honor killing" where someone has defiled his sister. Though that is wrong, it takes place and often the government turns a blind eye. Here the government turns no blind eye, and justice is meterd out, and the culprit pays for his murder. It is the government that metes out justice.

However we live by the law of the land. If you live in Singapore you may be fined or jailed for spitting on the sidewalk or littering. You live according to the law. You will also face the death penalty for bringing in illicit drugs. You live by the law of the land whether you agree with it or not. You have no choice in this debate whether you agree with capital punishment or not. You must live by the law of the land. The only choice some of you have is that you are able to change that law by electing your government officials in your state, and repealing some of your laws. Most nations don't have that choice.
Saudia Arabia will cut off fingers for those who steal. You live and face the consequences for the crimes done in the land that you live. God sets up governments and brings them down. We live under them and are to obey them, no matter what the law is. Nero's law wasn't very pretty in Paul and Peter's day; but the submitted themselves to it.

Well, someone needs to ingform the Founding Fathers that they were going against the law of the land, and thus were against God. Someone needs to tell the women of the Sufferage movement to get back in the kitchen and stop voting, because they're against God. Someone needs to tell all of the Civil Rights activists that their work was an abomination against God, because it was going against the law of the land and thus against God.

This is, DHK, exactly what you are saying.

 

[JonC]

Jon,

I thought that what you said was funny


Claudia

Thanks, that's two of us. (I'll stick to my day job).:smilewinkgrin:

 

[DHK]

Well, someone needs to ingform the Founding Fathers that they were going against the law of the land, and thus were against God. Someone needs to tell the women of the Sufferage movement to get back in the kitchen and stop voting, because they're against God. Someone needs to tell all of the Civil Rights activists that their work was an abomination against God, because it was going against the law of the land and thus against God.

This is, DHK, exactly what you are saying.

No, it is not what I am saying.
Do Civil Rights actiivists take the law into their own hands and go and murder those that they think are guilty?
Do the women of the Suffrage movement and other such movements go out and kill to push their agenda?
I think not? Lawful means are used, are they not?
We abide by the laws of our government to bring about the change that we deem is necessary. Civil disobedience is wrong.