I was sad when they hanged Saddam

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: If your convictions are against the law; then change your convictions for they are against God's law.

HP: In China it is my understanding that they have a one child law. I believe they apply extreme pressure to abort the child if you already have one.

My question to you is, is it wrong or unscriptural to have more than one child? If the government tells you that you can only have one child or face a forced abortion, are you in violation of God's law concerning obedience to the government to have a second child or to refuse to abort if the government tells you can only have one or face an abortion?

 

[DHK]

HP: In China it is my understanding that they have a one child law. I believe they apply extreme pressure to abort the child if you already have one.

My question to you is, is it wrong or unscriptural to have more than one child? If the government tells you that you can only have one child or face a forced abortion, are you in violation of God's law concerning obedience to the government to have a second child or to refuse to abort if the government tells you can only have one or face an abortion?

This is quite the thread on Biblical ethics.

Acts 4:19 But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.

Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Abortion is always wrong; for it is murder.
One has to be prepared, if called as a missionary to China: "Am I willing to adopt to the laws of the land that God is calling me to even if it means limiting my family to one child?" That in itself is not unbiblical.
Certain measures of birth control are not unbiblical IMO either, though there may be some controversy on that topic as well.

As a Biblical precedent one might do an indepth study on the birth of Moses. Pharaoh was limiting the births of the children of Israel at that time also.

Exodus 1:22 And Pharaoh charged all his people, saying, Every son that is born ye shall cast into the river, and every daughter ye shall save alive.

It seems that inasmuch as the parents of Moses went to great efforts to hide Moses that one may deduce that other families were having fewer children because of the command of the Pharaoh.

 

[Claudia_T]

DHK

well what are you going to do when the government forces you to accept the Mark of the Beast? accept it joyfully? and thinking by doing so that you are serving God?


Claudia

 

[JonC]

The law says "Fasten your seatbelts; it is the law." There is a $100.00 fine now if you are caught without it being fastened. Why? Because you are breaking the law.
But yet I know some hard-headed stubborn, red-necked preachers that say I'm not letting the government trample on my rights, and then break the law by violating the seat-belt law. They say: "It is against their convictions."
If your convictions are against the law; then change your convictions for they are against God's law.

I didn’t mean civil disobedience for rights. I mean that if you feel you will be sinning to pledge to a flag, and you pledge to a flag against your conscience, you are sinning. I don’t think you’d be correct in your conviction, but that isn’t the point.

 

[DHK]

DHK

well what are you going to do when the government forces you to accept the Mark of the Beast? accept it joyfully? and thinking by doing so that you are serving God?
Claudia

He won't Claudia, I won't be here. I will be in heaven; caught up forever to be with the Lord before the Antichrist is even revealed.

 

[Claudia_T]

He won't Claudia, I won't be here. I will be in heaven; caught up forever to be with the Lord before the Antichrist is even revealed.

Now how can that be true if the passage that talks about those who receive the mark of the beast also talks about the saints in contrast who are keeping the commandments of God?

 

[hillclimber1]

Killing is a stupid thing to do in any circumstance.

Tell that to God. Also are you a vegetarian?

Num 32:15 For if ye turn away from after him, he will yet again leave them in the wilderness; and ye shall destroy all this people.

Jos 9:24 And they answered Joshua, and said, Because it was certainly told thy servants, how that the LORD thy God commanded his servant Moses to give you all the land, and to destroy all the inhabitants of the land from before you, therefore we were sore afraid of our lives because of you, and have done this thing.

Lev 4:33 And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay it for a sin offering in the place where they kill the burnt offering.

Eze 9:8 And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?

 

[DHK]

I didn’t mean civil disobedience for rights. I mean that if you feel you will be sinning to pledge to a flag, and you pledge to a flag against your conscience, you are sinning. I don’t think you’d be correct in your conviction, but that isn’t the point.

1 Corinthians 9:20-21 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

Why would it be a sin to pledge allegiance to another flag. That's silly. I am a Canadian, and while attending college in America I had no problem pledging allegiance to the American flag. Do you have a chip on your shoulder. If you are going to be a missionary to another nation you have to become as one of them, not distance yourself from them.
I don't see your point.
1. Keep the law. Obey them that are over you.
2. Obey the Bible. The Bible is the supreme law. If the law says (for example), you must have an abortion, then God's law comes first.
3. Cause no unnecessary offence to anyone. Paul said:
"If meat cause my brother to offend I will eat no flesh while the world stands lest I make my brother to offend."
Many are too quick to demand their rights and in doing so trample on the rights of others and cause unnecessary offence and do damage to the cause of Christ.

 

[DHK]

Now how can that be true if the passage that talks about those who receive the mark of the beast also talks about the saints in contrast who are keeping the commandments of God?

Not here. Start another thread on eschatology or the Antichrist, etc.

 

[Claudia_T]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]What about the example of Daniel and his friends. They were in captivity and were supposed to submit to the Ruler of Babylon but to what extent? [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]What decree did King Nebuchadnezzar make to all the people of his kingdom?
"That at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of music, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up: And whoso falleth not down and worshippeth shall the same hour be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace." Daniel 3:5,6.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]How did Daniel and his friends answer?
"Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter. If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king. But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up." Daniel 3:16-18.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]And so what did King Nebuchadnezzar do?
"And he commanded the most mighty men that were in his army to bind Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, and to cast them into the burning fiery furnace." Daniel 3:20.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]What did Nebuchadnezzar then declare to everyone after Daniel and his friends were delivered by God?
"Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God." Daniel 3:28.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]What was the complaint about Daniel?
"Then said these men, We shall not find any occasion against this Daniel, except we find it against him concerning the law of his God." Daniel 6:5.[/FONT]


...and so Daniel and his friends put the Law of God above the Law of the Kingdom when they were told to do something against God.



[FONT=Times New Roman, Times][/FONT]​

 

[Pastor Larry]

"In any circumstance" is not too strong, if we are communicationg as normal human beings communicate, and not in some philosophical netherworld where God is immediately invoked as a crutch or a club.

Then you clearly live in a different world. I take your words for what they normally mean. I didn't invoke God as a crutch or club. You said what you said.

You can show me nowhere in the piece of phrase that you nitpicked at where I said or implied God.

So God is outside of "any circumstance"? Israel invading Canaan was not one of "any circumstance"? If not, then pray tell, what was it? What category does it fit in if not in "any circumstance." Language seems to mean nothing to you.

Yet you insisted I was calling God stupid

Where? I never insisted any such thing. You are simply being dishonest. I asked a question.

accused me of not answering you when I repeatedly had,

You had not answered.

and now are whinging about being called on provoking an argument.

What does it mean to "whing"? Before I answer that, I want to know what it means. I didn't provoke an argument. I asked a question. You refused to answer. And now you have resorted to dishonesty for some inexplicable reason.

Part of conversing about theology is that theology plays a role. And when you say "any circumstance" the Bible must of necessity be included in that. You should have spoken better what you meant. That would have clarified this from the beginning.

Honestly, don't stick it out there if you fear gettin' it cut off.

 

[tragic_pizza]

I'm not being dishonest. And to "whinge" is equivalent to "whining."

I know God is not stupid. I'm not so sure about everyone else.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

'zactly, and that, my brother, is why I stay away from most discussions with you. Your attitude stinks.

 

[tragic_pizza]

'zactly, and that, my brother, is why I stay away from most discussions with you. Your attitude stinks.

I'm accused of thinking God is stupid. Why wouldn't that affect my attitude?

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Like it or not, you said to everyone that following one of his commands was stupid. You offered no words to indicate it was an opinion. You just said it was stupid. And you now are insinuating that you may be the only smart one among us.


Your attitude stinks. Now, I think I'll enjoy some of that fresh air you were telling me about a few pages ago.

See ya, TP.

 

[Helen]

I'm accused of thinking God is stupid. Why wouldn't that affect my attitude?

We cannot help what others say to us, rightly or wrongly, but we are responsible for our reactions. None of us should blame others for our own quick tempers or nasty words or lack of self-control.

 

[hillclimber1]

You know TP; you require me to account for every word, and maybe a little diligence on your part would ameliorate your difficulty. It's hard to address what you think, when all we have to go on is what you write.

I don't pretend to be the sharpest pencil in the box, so sometimes you folks with the thinkiest thoughts leave me behind. But I know what I think to be true, and welcome kudos's and criticisms.

 

[tragic_pizza]

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to limit a person's words to what that person actually said.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I sense some inconsistency here.

Do you want us to take your posts for what they say, or what we think is implied ?

 

[tragic_pizza]

I sense some inconsistency here.

Do you want us to take your posts for what they say, or what we think is implied ?

How do you treat the posts of people you agree with?