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I was sad when they hanged Saddam
- Thread starter TaliOrlando
- Start date
tragic_pizza
New Member
Then here's hope for you yet!
:tongue3:
:tongue3:
Can you give me any scriptural basis for this statement?I Am Blessed 16 said:We ARE the government. We need more Christians running the country and making laws - not less.
Pastor Larry said:Not at all. God instituted capital punishment as an indication of the value of the image of God in man. If we do not call for capital punishment in clear and undisputed cases of murder (stamping out the image of God) we show both disrespect for life, and more importantly disrespect for God whose image we are not protecting and whose command we are not obeying.
Witnessing to someone is not the be all and end all of life. We should proclaim the gospel faithfully to all. But we must also obey God and leave people's souls in his hand.
Capital punishment is not the purview of individuals, but of civil government. It is commanded by God, and therefore, in answer to the question TP refuses to answer, all killing is not stupid. It serves a purpose, particularly in capital punishment.
Capital punishment is not about forgiveness. Forgiveness does not remove the consequences of sin. We can forgive Saddam (although he didn't sin against me), and still seek the death penalty against him.
How do you know he wasn't properly evangelized (whatever that means)? The Bible tells us that he knew the existence and nature of God, and if he died without God, he did so in willfull rebellion (cf. Romans 1:18ff.)
We'll have to disagree in regards to God commanding the death penalty. He at one time commanded it to a specific people for a specific time, but if we look at the teachings of Christ, we see an entirely different picture.
It's hard to love our enemies while dropping bombs on them or injecting them with a lethal cocktail of chemicals in the name of man's justice.
tragic_pizza
New Member
Citizaen wins 3 Internets.
I'm a Christian. (I know that question wasn't likely directed at me.)tragic_pizza said:I think I agree with you, to a surprising extent.
Are there Liberal SDA's?
I'm liberal on some things (as Christ was) and conservative on others, (as Christ was). I belong to no party and have no interest in voting. My kingdom isn't of this world. I know that sounds a bit Jehovah's Witness of me, but on this one point I'll have to agree with them on.
If Christians spent more time feeding the poor, healing the sick, caring for the lost and evangelizing (as we are called to do) and less time worrying about earthly governments, this world would be turned upside down.
tragic_pizza
New Member
Wow, Citizen wins all available Internets.
Citizen said:I'm a Christian. (I know that question wasn't likely directed at me.)
I'm liberal on some things (as Christ was) and conservative on others, (as Christ was). I belong to no party and have no interest in voting. My kingdom isn't of this world. I know that sounds a bit Jehovah's Witness of me, but on this one point I'll have to agree with them on.
If Christians spent more time feeding the poor, healing the sick, caring for the lost and evangelizing (as we are called to do) and less time worrying about earthly governments, this world would be turned upside down.
Thats a great attitude I think
Citizen said:I belong to no party and have no interest in voting. My kingdom isn't of this world. I know that sounds a bit Jehovah's Witness of me, but on this one point I'll have to agree with them on.
But what I don't understand in not voting, how can your voice be heard? How do you help to keep religious liberties? How to you make sure that the right people get into our positions of leadership (or atleast try)? I can't begin to imagine what would happen if all Christians just sat down and never voted - never let their voice be heard about issues! I just can't fathom that.
these guys who run for president, etc just tell you what you want to hear and do you really want to be responsible for voting them in and then having them do whatever they want to do behind the scenes and you lent your influence to it?
I wont vote.
In my opinion, they've got the Liberals who dont believe in Christianity, then they have the Christian type President who the Church is going to use to enforce her will upon everyone else.
They are using the abortion issue to get the Christians all riled up so that they will all stick their noses in the government then the next step is to try to persecute everyone else
But abortion isnt going to be the issue at that time.
I wont vote.
In my opinion, they've got the Liberals who dont believe in Christianity, then they have the Christian type President who the Church is going to use to enforce her will upon everyone else.
They are using the abortion issue to get the Christians all riled up so that they will all stick their noses in the government then the next step is to try to persecute everyone else
But abortion isnt going to be the issue at that time.
Last edited by a moderator:
tragic_pizza
New Member
Well, for the record, I vote. For the most part, my votes are in protest; that is, votes against a party or platform.
I don't delude myself into thinking either party has "all the answers" or is, at their core, different from the other.
I don't delude myself into thinking either party has "all the answers" or is, at their core, different from the other.
annsni said:But what I don't understand in not voting, how can your voice be heard? How do you help to keep religious liberties? How to you make sure that the right people get into our positions of leadership (or atleast try)? I can't begin to imagine what would happen if all Christians just sat down and never voted - never let their voice be heard about issues! I just can't fathom that.
Why does my voice need to be heard by any other than who I am commanded to speak to? Where does the Bible indicate that I should be fighting for my religious liberties? Can the government make you stop reading your Bible and praying? Where has the Bible indicated that you should be concerned with anything other than evangelizing and worshiping God?
Why should I care who is in control of this country? Can you name a president that has never lied? When you vote for someone, you give an endorsement of that person. You are therefore partially responsible for their actions while in office.
I'd just as soon as concern myself with heavenly things.
Claudia_T said:these guys who run for president, etc just tell you what you want to hear and do you really want to be responsible for voting them in and then having them do whatever they want to do behind the scenes and you lent your influence to it?
I wont vote.
In my opinion, they've got the Liberals who dont believe in Christianity, then they have the Christian type President who the Church is going to use to enforce her will upon everyone else.
They are using the abortion issue to get the Christians all riled up so that they will all stick their noses in the government then the next step is to try to persecute everyone else
But abortion isnt going to be the issue at that time.
People should really wake up if they think either party has any intentions of ending abortion. The issue gets too many people to the polls from both sides of the aisle for it to ever be changed.
I have spiritual problems with Bush, but I'll save that for the politics forum. Suffice it to say however, that if we can judge a Believer by his fruit, we should weigh conversions vs. deaths of lost souls.
Citizen said:I have spiritual problems with Bush, but I'll save that for the politics forum. Suffice it to say however, that if we can judge a Believer by his fruit, we should weigh conversions vs. deaths of lost souls.
I would like to hear what you think of Bush, if you would tell us, and I dont understand what you mean by the part about judging a believer by his fruit and weighing conversions verses deaths of lost souls
Why are you trying to imagine that? Start your own thread on that topic if you want to discuss it. That's not the topic here.I'm just trying to imagine why God would tell you or I to kill someone.
But God has given the state authority.God is not the state, and capital punisment/war are state operations.
I have never heard Bush say this. I would doubt it as well.However much W claims to talk to God, I find no evidence that God told him to kill Saddam or anyone else.
There's nothing rhetorical about it. It is a straightforward question with a simple answer. It's not anything like the Dalai Lama anything. If you think it is, then something is wrong.There is no "simple answer" because it's a wildly rhetorical question. It's like asking, "what if the Dalai Lama offered you a carrot?"
tragic_pizza
New Member
I answered you honestly, Larry. I can't help it if it doesn't match up with the script you had prepared.
No on both counts. He commanded it to all people in Gen 9, not to a specific people. And Christ never says anything different.He at one time commanded it to a specific people for a specific time, but if we look at the teachings of Christ, we see an entirely different picture.
If it is in the name of man's justice, then I agree. However, we are talking about God and his justice here.It's hard to love our enemies while dropping bombs on them or injecting them with a lethal cocktail of chemicals in the name of man's justice.
Claudia_T said:I would like to hear what you think of Bush, if you would tell us, and I dont understand what you mean by the part about judging a believer by his fruit and weighing conversions verses deaths of lost souls
Well I believe the man is a wolf in sheep's clothing. He successfully hogtied the Evangelical vote the first time around, and barely kept it the 2nd. I can only believe so much of the imaginary friend that is the "liberal media." Which is what we're told is responsible for everyone's low approval of Bush.
If we take into account what we know of Bush--his fruit if you will, what kind of picture do we have? Dead Iraqis. Dead Afghanis. Sure, some of them were terrorists, but a lot of them were innocents. He just bombed them straight to hell. He repayed evil with evil and evil is the result. It's just heartbreaking to think about.
Well we're reading a different Bible then. I'm not bound by the old covenant or the old law, are you? I agree that God commanded the death penalty during that time. But he also commanded that we put our wives outside of the village during their menstral cycle. I dare say neither of us are following that one.Pastor Larry said:No on both counts. He commanded it to all people in Gen 9, not to a specific people. And Christ never says anything different.
Christ's teachings DO say entirely different.
1. Love your enemies.
2. Bless those who curse you.
3. Love your neighbor as yourself.
4. Forgive others so that the Father will forgive you.
Peter continues that line of teaching by instructing us to not repay evil with evil.
To call the death penalty or the bombing of the unsaved as God's justice is to just completely ignore the Scriptures in my opinion. You believe differently obviously and I respect that.If it is in the name of man's justice, then I agree. However, we are talking about God and his justice here.