I will pretend for a minute that I an a Calvinist

[TCassidy]

It is because of pride

Okay. So you are saying that your neighbor had pride but you did not, so, in the matter of pride, you were better than your neighbor so God saved you?

Daniel is awesome

Dan 10:12 Then he continued, "Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them.

We are responsible, not what we do saves us but what God did.

So God did something for you but He did not do the same thing for your neighbor? Why not? Why did God treat you differently than your neighbor if you were not better than your neighbor?

 

[Skandelon]

Exactly.

Only two possible answers exist.

1. The one who "accepts" Christ is better in some way than the one who does not.

2. God did the choosing.

And by the way, even if option 1 were viable, the problem would still remain- why is he better? How did he get better? Who made him better?

Are those the same answers to the question as to who accepts the 'truth' of Calvinism?

1. The one who accepts Calvinism is better in some way than the one who does not.

2. God did the choosing.

If #1 then Calvinists have room for boasting while affirming LFW; and if number 2 they are fighting God...and they must speculate as to why God would choose for some of his children to have the truth and not others.

 

[Winman]

Psalms is correct about the humble.

2 Chron 34:27 Because thine heart was tender, and thou didst humble thyself before God, when thou heardest his words against this place, and against the inhabitants thereof, and humbledst thyself before me, and didst rend thy clothes, and weep before me; I have even heard thee also, saith the LORD.

Jam 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

1 Pet 5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

You cannot be saved unless you genuinely humble yourself before God and confess you are a sinner that cannot save himself. You must cast yourself solely on Jesus and depend upon him alone to save you. Our faith does not save, we simply come to Jesus in dependence, but Jesus has promised to save all that come to him and cast no one out (John 6:37).

 

[Luke2427]

Are those the same answers to the question as to who accepts the 'truth' of Calvinism?

1. The one who accepts Calvinism is better in some way than the one who does not.

2. God did the choosing.

If #1 then Calvinists have room for boasting while affirming LFW; and if number 2 they are fighting God...and they must speculate as to why God would choose for some of his children to have the truth and not others.

Number 2- unequivocally.

 

[psalms109:31]

Okay. So you are saying that your neighbor had pride but you did not, so, in the matter of pride, you were better than your neighbor so God saved you?

So God did something for you but He did not do the same thing for your neighbor? Why not? Why did God treat you differently than your neighbor if you were not better than your neighbor?

God wants all men to be save and come to the knowledge of the truth so your premise has nothing to do with it, it is that all men have the opportunity to come to Jesus. It has nothing to do with who is better than anyone, God show no favoritism to anyone any one who comes to Jesus will be saved it doesn't mater if one is better than another, don't worry about them.

When Jesus calls you, you come and you will be saved.

I got to take care of stuff, talk later.

 

[TCassidy]

God wants all men to be save and come to the knowledge of the truth so your premise has nothing to do with it, it is that all men have the opportunity to come to Jesus. It has nothing to do with who is better than anyone, God show no favoritism to anyone any one who comes to Jesus will be saved it doesn't mater if one is better than another, don't worry about them.

When Jesus calls you, you come and you will be saved.

I got to take care of stuff, talk later.

So, it seems to me that you are saying that when Jesus calls you, you come and are saved. But that seems to imply that Jesus does not call to some. If Jesus calls to all, but only some come, why didn't they all come? How are the ones that come more deserving of salvation than the ones who didn't come?

 

[TCassidy]

Number 2- unequivocally.

I disagree. Those who understand and champion monergism are theologically much more informed than those who champion the cause of synergism.

 

[Skandelon]

Number 2- unequivocally.

I disagree. Those who understand and champion monergism are theologically much more informed than those who champion the cause of synergism.

Was this intended to be a joke, or is this a sincere disagreement? I seriously think the answer to this question speaks volumes regarding the nature of choice as it relates to our discussion.

Luke, why do you suppose God has chose to grant the 'truth' of Calvinistic soteriology to some of his elect and not all?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I disagree. Those who understand and champion monergism are theologically much more informed than those who champion the cause of synergism.

Yes because now your viewing everything from the absolute sovereignty of God

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Was this intended to be a joke, or is this a sincere disagreement? I seriously think the answer to this question speaks volumes regarding the nature of choice as it relates to our discussion.

Luke, why do you suppose God has chose to grant the 'truth' of Calvinistic soteriology to some of his elect and not all?

See that right there is at the heart of what really irks you.....correct. You add your humanistic logic to what is Gods right to do as He pleases & then cry injustice when the Calvinist accepts it.

 

[TCassidy]

See that right there is at the heart of what really irks you.....correct. You add your humanistic logic to what is Gods right to do as He pleases & then cry injustice when the Calvinist accepts it.

I don't think God has withheld His truth from any of His children. Rather, some of us have laid aside our presuppositions and allowed the Spirit of God to lead us into all truth.

I have to admit that God's Spirit was brutal. My pride wanted to hang on to my synergism. I was sure I had to do something. Some part of my salvation had to rest in me. My pride refused to allow the fact that in me dwelt no good thing. Not my humility, not my spiritual sensitivity, not my anything. It was hard for me to come to the point where I understood there was nothing good about me. Nothing at all. But once I got to that point I could rejoice in the fact of God's love for me, His forgiving me, His comforting me because now I knew that it was all of grace. I deserved nothing but a sinner's hell, but God chose me for His own purposes. Not because of any merit of mine, but according to the good pleasure of His will. I don't know what that good pleasure is. I may never, even in heaven, be able to understand it, but I will always rejoice in my Savior first then in my Salvation so freely given.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

And Tom, there is something to be said for the element of PRIDE. I find that Election is very humbling. God tells us that He has chosen some by grace entirely apart from merit or even the ability to receive grace, precisely so that pride will be eliminated .... "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith---and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God---not by works, so that no one can boast" (Eph. 2:8-9).

 

[kyredneck]

Paul was the most arrogant, non-humble man on the planet when Jesus knocked him off his high horse.......

How do you know that? You say it with such assurity.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I think we are on the same page brother:laugh:

 

[preacher4truth]

I don't think God has withheld His truth from any of His children. Rather, some of us have laid aside our presuppositions and allowed the Spirit of God to lead us into all truth.

This is where I was taken...when confronted by a brother about "election, predestination" but prior to this God confronted me with the fact He is Sovereign.

 

[Skandelon]

I don't think God has withheld His truth from any of His children. Rather, some of us have laid aside our presuppositions and allowed the Spirit of God to lead us into all truth.

So, non-Calvinistic believers, like CS Lewis, could have done the same thing? In that nothing was preventing them from adopting Calvinistic 'truth?' So, you are affirming LFW for believers in that they had the ability to willingly do otherwise?

 

[quantumfaith]

The False antithesis between Monergism and Synergism

http://evangelicalarminians.org/node/184

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

In all humility brothers, there is another element that our sin natures find it hard to swallow.... that is that all human beings deserve hell, not heaven. I will use emphasis again "deserve."

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The False antithesis between Monergism and Synergism

http://evangelicalarminians.org/node/184

Another website treasure we have here!

 

[quantumfaith]

Take from it what you will, or nothing at all.