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I will pretend for a minute that I an a Calvinist
- Thread starter seekingthetruth
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So, are you saying that those who lean on their own understanding and don't trust in the Lord and thus have the truth hidden from then are lost because of that, but you did not lean on your own understanding and trusted in the Lord and were then saved?
If so doesn't that mean there IS a difference between you and your neighbor? You did something he didn't. Right?
Okay, but you still have not answered the question. Why? Why did you trust in the Lord and your neighbor trusted only in his own understanding? What is the difference between you and him?
psalms109:31
Active Member
You can see a difference between you and them, but i don't. They can have the same hope as me, because God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.
They have nothing and no one to blame but them selves.
I desire for them to know this there is no difference at all.
They can come.
God desires for them to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, so I can only blame them, but I know there is no difference between me and them.
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Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
You must not have done it right.
I first began to become aware of Sovereign Grace from reading 'The Living Bible', Romans 9; the guy's a Methodist preacher who goes out of his way to promote the Arminian view, but for some reason at that time it couldn't hide the truth of it from me.
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preacher4truth
Active Member
You must not have done it right.
Way to treat a lady.
Amy's theological acumen is spot on enough to explain TULIP, I'm sure she did it perfectly, and her friend responded appropriately.
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preacher4truth
Active Member
:thumbsup:
But you still fail to explain WHY you came and they didn't. If, as you say, there was no difference between you and him (You said: You can see a difference between you and them, but i don't.). So, if there was no difference WHY did you believe and they didn't?
That was the original question: "WHY?" And, so far, you have not been able to articulate the difference between you and them. So, again I ask, WHY did you believe and they didn't?
psalms109:31
Active Member
Jeremiah 23:
21 I did not send these prophets,
yet they have run with their message;
I did not speak to them,
yet they have prophesied.
22 But if they had stood in my council,
they would have proclaimed my words to my people
and would have turned them from their evil ways
and from their evil deeds.
Not all prophets are sent by God they come on their on with their own message.
When you figure out God's love for the world with His sovereignty, His Justice, Him being just instead lifted up one attribute higher than all the rest like the greatest of these is love, for God is love.
I am not afraid of arminian that i have to turn 180 degrees from them with the message that drew me to God in the first place.
What God convinced me off.
God loved the world that He sent His Son.
Mark
15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
21 I did not send these prophets,
yet they have run with their message;
I did not speak to them,
yet they have prophesied.
22 But if they had stood in my council,
they would have proclaimed my words to my people
and would have turned them from their evil ways
and from their evil deeds.
Not all prophets are sent by God they come on their on with their own message.
When you figure out God's love for the world with His sovereignty, His Justice, Him being just instead lifted up one attribute higher than all the rest like the greatest of these is love, for God is love.
I am not afraid of arminian that i have to turn 180 degrees from them with the message that drew me to God in the first place.
What God convinced me off.
God loved the world that He sent His Son.
Mark
15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
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psalms109:31
Active Member
But you still fail to explain WHY you came and they didn't. If, as you say, there was no difference between you and him (You said: You can see a difference between you and them, but i don't.). So, if there was no difference WHY did you believe and they didn't?
That was the original question: "WHY?" And, so far, you have not been able to articulate the difference between you and them. So, again I ask, WHY did you believe and they didn't?
The oppuritunity is there for them God loved the world that He sent His Son. He wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.
I can only tell you what the scripture says my own understanding isn't the answer for i live by every word that comes from God my understanding leads to death. There is no difference as Jesus said.
Luke 13
Repent or Perish
1 Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2 Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4 Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”
6 Then he told this parable: “A man had a fig tree growing in his vineyard, and he went to look for fruit on it but did not find any. 7 So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, ‘For three years now I’ve been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven’t found any. Cut it down! Why should it use up the soil?’
8 “‘Sir,’ the man replied, ‘leave it alone for one more year, and I’ll dig around it and fertilize it. 9 If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not, then cut it down.’”
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Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
But you still fail to explain WHY you came and they didn't. If, as you say, there was no difference between you and him (You said: You can see a difference between you and them, but i don't.). So, if there was no difference WHY did you believe and they didn't?
That was the original question: "WHY?" And, so far, you have not been able to articulate the difference between you and them. So, again I ask, WHY did you believe and they didn't?
What you are asking is, "What determines their choice?" Right?
Don't you realize that you are begging the question by assuming that a deterministic response is necessary? This is a fallacy.
We believe in FREE will, not a deterministic will, so if we answered your question by telling you what we think determined the choice we would be conceding that man doesn't have free will. A chooser determines his choice, period. As soon as you can explain how God makes his free choices then we'll explain to you how the free moral creatures He made in His image make their free choices. Ok?
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So you are saying that you DID something (believed, repented, had faith, submitted) that your neighbor, who had the same opportunity you did, DIDN'T do?
psalms109:31
Active Member
So you are saying that you DID something (believed, repented, had faith, submitted) that your neighbor, who had the opportunity to do, DIDN'T do?
They need to know they can, they have the opportunity.
If you believe they can't and i can then you are saying i am better than them.
So I can't tell you that since I do not believe that am better than them.
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psalms109:31
Active Member
My minister is to tell people they can not that they can't so I can't go against my ministry.
God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth and I don't see why they can't or I am better than them when they can do what I did.
God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth and I don't see why they can't or I am better than them when they can do what I did.
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We are commanded to preach the gospel to everybody.
No, that is what you are saying. You heard the same gospel and got saved. They heard it and did not get saved. My question to you is "Why?" You have gone around and around and around but have avoided answering the question.
Then why did you believe and other other guy didn't? We keep coming back to the same question, don't we? So, if all else is equal, why did you believe and the other guy didn't?
psalms109:31
Active Member
We are commanded to preach the gospel to everybody.No, that is what you are saying. You heard the same gospel and got saved. They heard it and did not get saved. My question to you is "Why?" You have gone around and around and around but have avoided answering the question.Then why did you believe and other other guy didn't? We keep coming back to the same question, don't we? So, if all else is equal, why did you believe and the other guy didn't?
I told you that they can and they are doing what they are doing on their own i am not better than them and they can come I do not see no reason why they don't come, because God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.
The best way is to ask them and tell them they can, because they can.
I am trying to see what makes us different there isn't any, so they can come but they don't. Ask them that is the only way to find out.
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Now you sound like you are saying that God wants to save them but is too weak to save them?
If that is not what you are saying, then why did you get saved and they didn't?
I have been asking you why you believed many many times in this thread but you refuse to tell me. If you refuse to give an answer to every man that asks you the reason for the hope that is in you with fear and trembling why would you assume they will be any more forthright than you?
I have asked you several times why you believed but you continue to refuse to tell me. Why is that?
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
If you really wanted to know the answer that scholarly Arminians would give you, then you would have answered my post, but clearly you'd rather stick to your pat answers...
psalms109:31
Active Member
God doesn't need to save us, we need God to save us.
God said He is going to save believers and He wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. It doesn't matter who is better than another. Our feelings, our understanding doesn't matter, what matters is the word of God.
I can't trust my feeling, I can trust in the word of God
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