1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Idioms

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Van, Oct 19, 2015.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,742
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Its both. Personal incredulity contributes little light but much heat.

    Ephesians 1:23 could be translated idiomatically as "Now the church is His body, the spiritual deity of Him fills every individual within the church." Or "Now the church is His body because the spiritual deity of Him fills every individual within the body." But even if that is what it means, shouldn't we stick to a literal translation and leave the commentary to the study notes?
     
    #81 Van, Nov 9, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2015
  2. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    585
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Isn't that the truth! Van is the guy who complains about what he declares about "messed-up versions." Yet he uses phraseology here that distorts the Word of God and the English language at the same time.
     
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,742
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    More disinformation. The point is that translations should translate literally and put their interpretation in footnotes or study notes. Good Grief.
     
  4. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    585
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I'm glad that translations like the NASU do exactly the opposite of what you constantly drone on about.
     
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,742
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, it is better to put the literal translation in the main text and put the interpretation and commentary in the notes. Here is an idiomatic translation of Ephesians 1:23, "Now the church is His body because the spiritual deity of Him fills every individual within the body." But is that the actual meaning? Thus providing the literal translation in the main text, and then footnoting the possible idiomatic meaning is the best way to go.
     
  6. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    585
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I already referred to your constant droning on about that. I am glad that the vast majority of translations --including the NASU, do exactly the opposite of what you want. ;-)
     
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,742
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Lets see, the NASB usually puts the literal translation in the main text, and occasionally puts the literal translation in a footnote. And this is how the word for word translation philosophy versions operate. But is this obvious fact accepted or denied? Go figure.
     
  8. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    585
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The NASU does not "occasionally" put the "Lit." in the margins. Just take a gander at my thread on the subject. As anyone with eyes to see --it regularly puts the idiomatic in the text.
     
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,742
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Folks, all the text not in the "Lit" footnotes represents the vast majority of the text, and represents the literal translation. Apparently Mr. Rippon believes that all the places where the NASB footnotes literal, represent idiomatic renderings. No kidding.

    Take a look at Galatians 2:2 The literal rendering is "It was according to revelation that I.... "
    The NASB chose to put "It was because of revelation that I...." Again the premise that according to revelation is an idiom whose meaning cannot be discerned is hogwash.
     
  10. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    24,988
    Likes Received:
    2,268
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Eighty-nine posts about an issue that must be considered trivial by almost everyone. Carry on.
     
  11. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,633
    Likes Received:
    1,832
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Actually, it's pretty important to us Bible translators. But I don't see enough expertise in the OP or elsewhere to bother much with this thread, and those on the BB who actually know Greek and Hebrew are also not contributing, so like you say, "Carry on." :cool:
     
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,742
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I guess ITL plans to continue casting disparagement after posting "full stop." Maybe "full stop" is an ITL idiom for "non-stop." :)

    Yes, it is better to put the literal translation in the main text and put the interpretation and commentary in the notes. Here is an idiomatic translation of Ephesians 1:23, "Now the church is His body because the spiritual deity of Him fills every individual within the body." But is that the actual meaning? Thus providing the literal translation in the main text, and then footnoting the possible idiomatic meaning is the best way to go.​
     
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,742
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    People who claim expertise but post only disparagement are afraid to test their skill in the market place of ideas. Dictatorial elitists use credentials to censor ideas, just as the church did in the dark ages. The mass was in a foreign language so only the select few could know the scriptures, and those who translated it were burned at the stake.
     
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,742
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    One of the possible idiomatic meanings of eat and drink is to comprehend and understand. So if we translated John 6:53 idiomatically it would read, "So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man (unless you comprehend the Son of Man) and drink His blood (and understand His life sacrifice) you have no spiritual life within you.

    This view may be right or maybe wrong, but certainly should be consigned to the notes and not inserted into the text.
     
  15. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    24,988
    Likes Received:
    2,268
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The thread has devolved into a repetitious "am too!", "are not!" type of dialogue.
     
  16. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    19,633
    Likes Received:
    1,832
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yeah, that's pretty typical of the unqualified opinionators here.:D
     
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,742
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    One of the possible idiomatic meanings of eat and drink is to comprehend and understand. So if we translated John 6:53 idiomatically it would read, "So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you comprehend the Son of Man and understand His life sacrifice you have no spiritual life within you.

    This view may be right or maybe wrong, but certainly should be consigned to the notes and not inserted into the text.
     
    #97 Van, Nov 12, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2015
  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,742
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Have you read the phrase "give glory to God?" See John 9:24 or Acts 12:23. There may be more than one way to give glory to God, but clearly the phrase is used idiomatically to mean to tell the truth. Thus the NET translates the phrase idiomatically (promise to tell the truth) but footnotes the literal translation.
    The NIV puts both the literal and the idiomatic meaning in the main text.

    No wonder God hates all liars, they cover themselves in stolen glory.
     
Loading...