SheepWhisperer
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[Edit[God IS love; [Edit]
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If God Decided To Save No One Would He Be Unjust?
- Thread starter Calv1
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I don't suggest that at all.
I suggest anyone who wants to be saved can be saved.
The problem with the orange illustration is that God does not have a wife limiting Him to choosing 5 oranges.
So, is Macarthur holding back to be nice, or is he confused?
SheepWhisperer,
SW...pause right here...while the Son is Ordained as the elect servant the scripture is clear on who he was to die for;
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Here we are told...He took hold of those given to Him by the Father.....the Seed of Abraham....not the seed of Adam as you suggest....you need to show how this is not true or your statement as posted is false.
SW...pause right here...while the Son is Ordained as the elect servant the scripture is clear on who he was to die for;
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Here we are told...He took hold of those given to Him by the Father.....the Seed of Abraham....not the seed of Adam as you suggest....you need to show how this is not true or your statement as posted is false.
"If God Decided To Save No One Would He Be Unjust?"
"Just" as Satan who has also decided to save no one.
Obligating God/"Justice" to evil is absurd.
Justice/Judgement is not regulated to having to cause suffering and revenge. Perfect Judge leaves all parties smiling fulfilling the proper purpose of the Law. The Law is a tool made for man.
Penalties need not be regulated to selfish point of view of suffering. The NORM of Justice has to be from a divine perspective. Not from a perspective of a selfish animal.
Good people are not satisfied killing anyone or making any suffer.
Evil people chose POWER above LOVE.
"Just" as Satan who has also decided to save no one.
Obligating God/"Justice" to evil is absurd.
Justice/Judgement is not regulated to having to cause suffering and revenge. Perfect Judge leaves all parties smiling fulfilling the proper purpose of the Law. The Law is a tool made for man.
Penalties need not be regulated to selfish point of view of suffering. The NORM of Justice has to be from a divine perspective. Not from a perspective of a selfish animal.
Good people are not satisfied killing anyone or making any suffer.
Evil people chose POWER above LOVE.
Praise Him for his Mercy. It is not our right to question Him regarding who He saves and who He doesn't. Romans 9:21 Or hasn’t the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel for honor, and another for dishonor?
Unless he wants to save everyone in the same way he does not want you to sin.
it was just an illustration ...dont press it if you want to come to truth....the others were passed over....
try this one....you next week inherit a fortune...you decide to adopt10 children.....you select 10, pass by the rest...
Can you be blamed for passing by the others? You did not have to select any?
listen...I have no idea why JM presents what he does why he does, his motives etc.
I just know what I see take place and offer an opinion on it.
When you hear JM preach on particular redemption texts, he is quite clear.
I will present some very direct sermons on the topic if you want them...
I have the means and ability to adopt them and I know that if I pass them by, they burn in white hot fire for eternity. How loving am I to pass them by?
I am sure I have heard them. He in some of his sermons comes within a razors edge of outright embracing full double predestination. My point is if he will say quite often "I don't understand that," it is logical that people like me would not understand it either. You honestly are helpful and try to explain. I truly appreciate that. I can't say the same of a few others.
Now you are taking it from an illustration to more of the biblical model of judgment...
Reynolds....keep in mind...God explained to Adam,,,,dying thou shalt surely die....the consequences were clear
All died in Adam...so we are already born with a death sentence hanging over us....
It keeps getting repeated, God was not under any obligation to save anyone....except..those who he obligated himself to save;
12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
13 For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,
14 Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.
15 And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.
16 For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.
17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
It was a Covenant death...the High Priest dies as Surety[guarantee} for His people;
22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
I have heard him say that...I always take it to mean...he cannot begin to fathom the great love of God in the cross!
he cannot get his mind around it, and truthfully we as created beings, cannot surpass the wisdom and knowledge of God. We are totally dependant on Him to reveal truth to us.
We are to help each other...remove obstacles...If some one is sincere, I will spend much time as it takes with them.God is patient with me, and I have been helped much by others who invested time in me.
here is site for you;
Sovereign Grace Audio Treasures - MP3 Reformed/Calvinistic Sermons
I would recommend these messages for starters;
William Downing Audio Sermons
1) Human Inability
2) Unconditional Electing Grace
3) Particular Redemption
4) Efficacious Grace
5) (last message missing)
listen to these 4..then;
listen to these 7;
Albert N. Martin Sermons on the Doctrines of Grace
Titles: / 16kbps files:
1) Introduction
2) The Covenant of Redemption
3) Union With Christ, Part 1
4) Union With Christ, Part 2
5) Christ's Priestly Activity
6) Major Biblical Categories
7) Major Objections to this Doctrine
Sovereign Grace Audio Treasures - MP3 Reformed/Calvinistic Sermons
I would recommend these messages for starters;
William Downing Audio Sermons
1) Human Inability
2) Unconditional Electing Grace
3) Particular Redemption
4) Efficacious Grace
5) (last message missing)
listen to these 4..then;
listen to these 7;
Albert N. Martin Sermons on the Doctrines of Grace
Titles: / 16kbps files:
1) Introduction
2) The Covenant of Redemption
3) Union With Christ, Part 1
4) Union With Christ, Part 2
5) Christ's Priestly Activity
6) Major Biblical Categories
7) Major Objections to this Doctrine
All sinners deserve hell as the wages of sin is death. But predestination, in the bible, is never negative but always positive. God predestines us to be conformed to the image of Christ. He predestines all believers to heaven. Never, anywhere in the bible, do we see God predestines anyone for hell. He doesn't have to. They are already destined to hell because of their sin.
R.C. Sproul did not write my bible. He is a Presbyterian, not a Baptist.
Gibberish.
So, God is unloving (or at least less loving than you) because some people God to hell?
SheepWhisperer
Active Member
That scripture is telling us that Jesus was born of flesh and blood, as a Jew, so that He could die, defeat death, and free men from the same. Then we also see in another scripture that the Gospel was sent to the Gentiles. Matter of faxt, Jesus Himself saved Gentiles during His ministry. So I don't know what your point is but back up just four(4) verses above and you will find this.......
Hebrews 2: 9 "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
No, He would not be unjust. All are sinners and all deserve condemnation.
That's a non reply and avoidance of my questions. Please answer both questions.
Would President Obama or President Trump be unloving if they only pardon a few and not all criminals?
Is God unloving if he only chooses to pardon a few sinners and not all sinners?
Well let me clarify it for you;
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
literally...everyone...now we know not everyone is saved, so we go to the text and see if the context tells us who is the everyone in view...it does watch;
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Everything bolded is speaking of the elect children,
the church,
the brethren,
the seed of Abraham,
His brethren,
the captain of their salvation,
many sons,
to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Does this look like everyman who ever lived,or the church, the children given by the Father???
They are convicted lawbreakers. How loving are you to ignore justice?
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