I'm a Calvinist. Change My Mind.

[TCassidy]

Now, now, Teddy. Compassion and grace, remember?

Who is this directed to and what does it have to do with the discussion?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Correct.
It's the fact that it isn't actually true which makes it untrue.

You've already admitted to lying about me several times now.

This is no different.

Now, we see that your "apology" was just bovine skubulon.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Who is this directed to and what does it have to do with the discussion?

The name in the quote box is "TCassidy", so I would assume that would be you.

By the way, did you notice that your buddy is back at his old tricks? Now you see why I didn't fall for his bovine skubulon "apology".

 

[TCassidy]

The name in the quote box is "TCassidy", so I would assume that would be you.

But you address somebody named "Teddy." I don't know of any "Teddy" on the forum, so who were you addressing?

 

[TCassidy]

By the way, did you notice that your buddy is back at his old tricks?

What buddy of mine? The only person on the forum I would call a "buddy" is one I have met in person at least a couple times. And as far as I know that is limited to just a couple people. Dr. Bob, and Van.

 

[tyndale1946]

By your own admission what "transpired" is, that God has so Sovereignly chosen at this point in time to not reveal for his own glorious purposes his marvelous works of sanctifying grace upon him. It is God's most wise counsel, and for his glory that your friend remain ignorant of the glorious doctrines of Grace which he has chosen to reveal to you. You have now admittedly expressed a desire which is (at least to date, and possibly forever) contrary to his greatest glory....his blessing.
God reserves the right to bless and condemn only in the secret places which belong to him alone, and to which you are not privy what is most suitable for his purposes. It might very well be that God, in his most perfect will has absolutely contrary desires than that which you admittedly express. You "wish" something God might very well have, in his own counsel decided against...
Happily, you fight against the pricks.
Those are according to his most mighty and perfect will, and, you, by definition, are wishing that which is contrary to his perfect will in grace.

Don't get mad at me.

It's your doctrine, not mine.

Yes it is... And apparently you do not understand the concept of Sovereign Grace... He is a Christian... And he HAS been changed... All the evidence is there... He's a chosen vessel... He belongs to Christ!... Is that plain enough for you from a Calvinist?... This Calvinist anyway!... Brother Glen

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Yes it is... And apparently you do not understand the concept of Sovereign Grace... He is a Christian... And he HAS been changed... All the evidence is there... He's a chosen vessel... He belongs to Christ!... Is that plain enough for you from a Calvinist?... This Calvinist anyway!... Brother Glen

I understand the concept just fine.
My initial post was really meant to be more tongue-in-cheek and not taken particularly seriously.
My apologies that it didn't come off that way.
Certainly, there is nothing wrong with you well-wishing your friend.
blessings

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

So you are saying that Paul made a mistake in 1 Cor 15?

Neither Paul here, or Luke on Judas and the Lord's Supper, are mistaken, as what they record are the Infallible, Perfect, Word of Almighty God. In both instances, you my friend are the one mistaken! It is you who holds on to your complete misunderstanding of John chapter 13, which is an account of the Passover Meal, and refusal to accept the account in Luke 22, which clearly shows (as the Greek says) that Judas was part of that Lord's Supper. Likewise, it is you who will hang on to one passage in First Corinthians, and assume that it is the be-all-and-end-all on salvation!You need to let the WHOLE of Scripture speak to you, and not only pick out that which suites your fancy!

 

[utilyan]

This passage points to someone calling God a Liar.

1 John 5
10The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son.11And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.


The reason the unbeliever makes God a Liar is because the unbeliever doesn't believe Jesus died for him.

Calvinist would have to say that the man who says that Jesus did not die for them is TELLING THE TRUTH.

 

[thatbrian]

Did God cause Adam's sin?

Cause? No. Ordain? Yes.

Consider the alternative. Was He taken by surprise by the Fall? Was Christ not "slain before the foundations of the earth"?

 

[thatbrian]

Read Thatbrian's statement:
He is being consistent here by believing this, which makes one ponder why he would even start such a thread.

You've got it completely backward. I did not say that was the Calvinist position. What I meant was that in HIS worldview, that is the case. If HE is consistent then that's the view HE should be espousing. I was urging HIM to be consistent with HIS view, not explaining mine.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Cause? No. Ordain? Yes.

Consider the alternative. Was He taken by surprise by the Fall?

so what do you think "ordain" means? If God "ordains" our sins, He is the CAUSE of them!

"formal (of God or someone in authority) to order something to happen" Cambridge English dictionary

 

[thatbrian]

Brian... I'm not here to change your mind but I thought you and the other brethren of our ilk would get a kick out of this encounter I had... I was discussing scripture with a non-cal when he threw up his arms and said:... I don't know about you CALVINIST!... You're Contrary!... Pigheaded!... Hardheaded!... Bullheaded!... Cantankerous!... Ornery and Argumentative!... And I'm done talking to you!... As he was swiftly walking away, I hollered... GOD BLESS YOU!... Brother Glen

Funny!

My very semi-Pelagian friend introduced me to his pastor, and to my surprise, right after we shook hands, my friend said to his pastor, "he's a Calvinist" (referring to me). The pastor, with a very disapproving look on his face, said, "well, all we can do is pray that God changes him". I replied, oh, you are a Calvinist too!

 

[thatbrian]

Which is an example of you "kicking against the pricks" if that is not God's will.
God may have absolutely no desire in his Sovereign and perfect plan to "bless" him with the sanctifying grace he has bestowed upon you and therefore you have simply admitted that you have audibly wished and repeated what might be absolutely contrary to God's perfect Holy Will, which he has decreed for his glory.

It might very well be that God is most magnified by your friends ignorance such that he may demonstrate his glory to us at his eschaton.....as he sits in corrective judgement against his foolhardiness.

And yet...
Contrary to God's revealed word, you have well-wished an heretic Godspeed:
II John 1: 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

...Good to know that Calvinists are as staunch on defying Scripture as ever

If someone curses you, bless him.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

You've got it completely backward. I did not say that was the Calvinist position. What I meant was that in HIS worldview, that is the case. If HE is consistent then that's the view HE should be espousing. I was urging HIM to be consistent with HIS view, not explaining mine.

I don't have it backwards.
I must not have explained myself sufficiently.
It is only consistent for a non-Calvinist to attempt to "convince" a Calvinist of his position.
It is inconsistent for a Calvinist to insist on being "convinced". Hence my puzzlement that you would start such a thread.
I'm pretty sure we are saying the same thing Brian.
Relax.

 

[thatbrian]

I don't have it backwards.
I must not have explained myself sufficiently.
It is only consistent for a non-Calvinist to attempt to "convince" a Calvinist of his position.
It is inconsistent for a Calvinist to insist on being "convinced". Hence my puzzlement that you would start such a thread.
I'm pretty sure we are saying the same thing Brian.
Relax.

First, I didn't start this thread because I literally thought that someone would change my mind.

Second, Calvinists do believe that men can be convinced by arguments. Calvinism is not fatalism. Men preach, teach, persuade, pray. . .

 

[JohnDeereFan]

It is only consistent for a non-Calvinist to attempt to "convince" a Calvinist of his position.
It is inconsistent for a Calvinist to insist on being "convinced".

And that way, you have a convenient excuse for not being able to back up your claims or defend your position.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Funny!

My very semi-Pelagian friend introduced me to his pastor, and to my surprise, right after we shook hands, my friend said to his pastor, "he's a Calvinist" (referring to me). The pastor, with a very disapproving look on his face, said, "well, all we can do is pray that God changes him". I replied, oh, you are a Calvinist too!

I would have said, "God did change me. I used to be a Finneyist who believed God was my little puppy on a leash just like you. Maybe we should pray that you repent of your Finneyist heresies."

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

First, I didn't start this thread because I literally thought that someone would change my mind.

Second, Calvinists do believe that men can be convinced by arguments. Calvinism is not fatalism. Men preach, teach, persuade, pray. . .

If all the "elect" have been predestined to their salvation even before the foundation of this world, how can any arguments or reasoning ever mean anything? The whole system of the Calvinistic "election" is basically fatalistic, in that whatever had been predetermined by an all powerful God, will indeed come to pass! Since according to Calvinism, man does not possess a "free will", he is reduced into a robot which is pre-programmed to simply follow the dictates of the Master. This is NOT what the Holy Bible says about God, nor His Wonderful plan of salvation, which has been much distorted by this man-made system known as "Calvinism". I often wonder if Calvinists actually understand what they believe!

 

[thatbrian]

If all the "elect" have been predestined to their salvation even before the foundation of this world, how can any arguments or reasoning ever mean anything?

Because God uses these means to call in His sheep.

Your misunderstanding is common. People think that Calvinism means that men are robots. No, God works in and through men's intellects and wills. Yes. Calvinists also believe that men possess wills.