I'm a Calvinist. Change My Mind.

[thatbrian]

I often wonder if Calvinists actually understand what they believe!

I've found, on average, a Calvinist understands and can state his positions on matters of soteriology better than most.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Because God uses these means to call in His sheep.

Your misunderstanding is common. People think that Calvinism means that men are robots. No, God works in and through men's intellects and wills. Yes. Calvinists also believe that men possess wills.

Do you really understand what "election" in Calvinism really is? It is very simply this. God, before the world was created, "chose" (elected) some to salvation, not based on any good that they have done, but His own mercy and good-pleasure. This "transaction" was completed before creation and without the "will" of that elect person, as they were not even born when this takes place! Show where I am wrong in this? You are also wrong about men's "wills", which again in Calvinism is in "bondage", as a dead person who can do nothing, they can do nothing! Your understanding is very faulty!

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

I've found, on average, a Calvinist understands and can state his positions on matters of soteriology better than most.

you are obviously speaking to the wrong people!

 

[JohnDeereFan]

I've found, on average, a Calvinist understands and can state his positions on matters of soteriology better than most.

Hey, come on, now! The Finneyists have all the great theologians! Joel Osteen, Ed Young, Jr, Paula White, etc.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Hey, come on, now! The Finneyists have all the great theologians! Joel Osteen, Ed Young, Jr, Paula White, etc.

...T D Jakes, Rick Warren...

 

[thatbrian]

Hey, come on, now! The Finneyists have all the great theologians! Joel Osteen, Ed Young, Jr, Paula White, etc.

Don't forget Charles Stanley.

 

[thatbrian]

you are obviously speaking to the wrong people!

No. I've read many of your posts.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Incidentally, as I'm here, I also have another window open and am on Facebook. I just got blocked by a church for asking questions about their church.

Surprise, it was a Finneyist church.

Any church that is afraid to answer some basic questions about their church is not a healthy church.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

No. I've read many of your posts.

I hope you have learned some truths? If not, then can you show me where I am wrong?

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Don't forget Charles Stanley.

Now, I know that his son Andy is into heresy, but I thought that CS was ok?

 

[thatbrian]

Incidentally, as I'm here, I also have another window open and am on Facebook. I just got blocked by a church for asking questions about their church.

Surprise, it was a Finneyist church.

Any church that is afraid to answer some basic questions about their church is not a healthy church.

What did you ask?

 

[HeirofSalvation]

First, I didn't start this thread because I literally thought that someone would change my mind.

I know.
Hence, why I expressed some confusion about what exactly your purpose was.

Second, Calvinists do believe that men can be convinced by arguments.

More accurately, arguments can be used as means.

Calvinism is not fatalism.

Yes, it is.
I realize that Calvinists deny this; often by appealing to the notion that God's will (in lieu of "fates" or pagan entities) are behind the determination of all things. But, that's an irrelevant point, which, while it can be happily conceded (and usually is) still renders Calvinism fatalism in the most important sense. It's like denying that Christmas trees are trees, because they are no longer associated with paganism, which, while true, doesn't render them not trees.

 

[thatbrian]

Now, I know that his son Andy is into heresy, but I thought that CS was ok?

I wasn't intending to make the case that Charles Stanley was a heretic. I just meant that he, although a hero and highly esteemed leader of Evangelicals, is also not a very good theologian.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

What did you ask?

I asked horribly offensive questions like "Imagine I was a lost person. How would you evangelize me?", "Does your pastor preach expositionally or topically?" "How are your Sunday School teachers vetted in regard to their doctrine?" "How would you deal with a member who was found to be in ongoing sin?" and...and I'm almost ashamed to admit that I would ask such a thing but...and, please don't judge me too harshly for this, but I asked them what kind of music they use in worship.

To be honest, it reminded me of back when Aaron was a moderator. Can't answer the question? Just ban 'em!

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

I wasn't intending to make the case that Charles Stanley was a heretic. I just meant that he, although a hero and highly esteemed leader of Evangelicals, is also not a very good theologian.

where is he wrong in his theology?

 

[thatbrian]

I asked horribly offensive questions like "Imagine I was a lost person. How would you evangelize me?", "Does your pastor preach expositionally or topically?" "How are your Sunday School teachers vetted in regard to their doctrine?" "How would you deal with a member who was found to be in ongoing sin?" and...and I'm almost ashamed to admit that I would ask such a thing but...and, please don't judge me too harshly for this, but I asked them what kind of music they use in worship.

To be honest, it reminded me of back when Aaron was a moderator. Can't answer the question? Just ban 'em!

Fair questions, but the average Evangelical doesn't even consider those things, which very difficult to believe. Even the leaders don't think about what they are doing. They aimlessly "do" church.

I guessed I wasn't active here when people were being banned for no good reason, but I'm glad it isn't that way now.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

I wasn't intending to make the case that Charles Stanley was a heretic. I just meant that he, although a hero and highly esteemed leader of Evangelicals, is also not a very good theologian.

Yeah, and I don't recall him always being that way. But what he's been teaching in the last few years has been troubling.

And don't get me started on his kid.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Fair questions, but the average Evangelical doesn't even consider those things, which very difficult to believe. Even the leaders don't think about what they are doing. They aimlessly "do" church.

I went to their website and it looks like I dodged a bullet. Their statement of faith was pretty good except for they explained that they wanted to make their church a place where unbelievers would have a home.

But, coming out of the Word of Faith movement, I learned the hard way that what a church says they believe on paper, and what they believe in practice are often not the same thing.

The good news is that I dodged a bullet with that church. The bad news is, I'm still without a church.

I guessed I wasn't active here when people were being banned for no good reason, but I'm glad it isn't that way now.

I wouldn't be too sure about that.

 

[thatbrian]

where is he wrong in his theology?

He is not Reformed in his soteriology, which makes all else he teaches errant.

 

[thatbrian]

Yeah, and I don't recall him always being that way. But what he's been teaching in the last few years has been troubling.

And don't get me started on his kid.

His kid is just carrying on the family tradition: bad theology. Only, yes, the kid is much worse.

Reminds me of a song. . .