Improvement of the NIV

[Van]

Van, Van, Van. You never learn.

You claim that 30 translations have "love for mankind" in Titus 3:4. I counted 9.
You need to improve your skills in arithmetic. Of those 9 only 4 are commonly known.

In Romans 12:10 the NIV doesn't use the words "brotherly love." Six commonly known versions use your preferred rendering. Some commonly known versions which do not use your wording :CSB, CEB, ISV, NABRE, NET, NLT and NRSV.

In Acts 28:2 you would prefer it to be rendered as "The islanders showed us love for humankind." That's a crazy translation. And it doesn't make any sense grammatically. Besides, the word "humankind" is ungainly. Not once does the NIV use it. And that's a plus for the NIV.

And may I point out that not a single translation has your rendering, of course. In previous posts you try to buttress your case by citing other versions which use your desired reading. But in this case, nada, nothing, zilch comes up to your defense.

As with Acts 28:2, Acts 13:48 comes to mind. I have asked you before, from what source is your preferred reading? It doesn't occur in any translation. Your errant theology is the likely source.

Mr Rippon posts falsehoods to hide the flaws of the NIV. He may never repent.

I claimed more that twenty had words to the effect of indicating love for humankind, so Mr. Rippon provides a false claim. See last paragraph of post # 19.

Note Mr. Rippon thinks the issue is how many versions use a particular rendering, rather than using a rendering that presents the meaning of the word being translated. His efforts present hogwash.

The Greek word meaning (philanthrōpia) according to Thayer's is "love of mankind." Thus love of humankind is accurate, whereas a different Greek word means "kindness." (chrēstotēs G5544)

Thus the NIV translates two different Greek words as "kindness," mistranslating the one meaning love of humankind. The more you look, the more you find.

 

[Van]

You might wonder how many more Greek words the NIV translated using "kindness?"
Lets see:

Acts 4:9 G2108 euergesia (refers to a good deed or benefit)

Acts 14:17 G15 agathopoion (refers to showing beneficent)

Acts 27:3 G5364 philanthrōpōs (refers to acting philanthropically)

Acts 28:2 G5363 philanthrōpia (refers to love of humankind)

Romans 2:4 G5544 and G5543 (both words refer to kindness)

The more you look and more you find.

 

[Rippon2]

I claimed more that twenty had words to the effect of indicating love for humankind, so Mr. Rippon provides a false claim. See last paragraph of post # 19.

Nine is not 20 Van-man. Only 5 of those 9 translations are in common use. Again check your arithmetic.

 

[Rippon2]

You might wonder how many more Greek words the NIV translated using "kindness?"
Lets see:

Acts 4:9 G2108 euergesia (refers to a good deed or benefit)

Acts 14:17 G15 agathopoion (refers to showing beneficent)

Acts 27:3 G5364 philanthrōpōs (refers to acting philanthropically)

Acts 28:2 G5363 philanthrōpia (refers to love of humankind)

Romans 2:4 G5544 and G5543 (both words refer to kindness)

The more you look and more you find.

If you are trying to make a point, you have failed. Give examples and compare them with other versions.

 

[Van]

Nine is not 20 Van-man. Only 5 of those 9 translations are in common use. Again check your arithmetic.

All the twenty I found can be "commonly" found on line.

Mr. Rippon like all liberals seems to what to define translation versions to only refer to a subset less than twenty. I kid you not.
The NIV is one of the worst versions as far consistently translating a Greek word meaning with a unique English word or phrase. According to one analysis the NIV erred 15% more than the most consistent verses and ranked near the bottom.

 

[Van]

If you are trying to make a point, you have failed. Give examples and compare them with other versions.

Below are according to Mr. Rippon non-examples of the NIV translating words with different meanings all as having one meaning.

Acts 4:9 G2108 euergesia (refers to a good deed or benefit)

Acts 14:17 G15 agathopoion (refers to showing beneficent)

Acts 27:3 G5364 philanthrōpōs (refers to acting philanthropically)

Acts 28:2 G5363 philanthrōpia (refers to love of humankind)

Romans 2:4 G5544 and G5543 (both words refer to kindness)

The more you look and more you find.

Lets take Acts 4:9 and the word euergesia: the NIV translates it as "kindness" in Acts and "welfare" in 1 Timothy 6:2. The NASB uses "benefit" in both verses.

 

[Van]

The Greek word (G15) agathopoion appears about 9 times in the NIV, and in eight of those times it is rendered "do good" or words to that effect (do right, doing good, etc) but apparently could not bring itself to be consistent, thus in Acts 14:17 we get "kindness." The NASB went with do good or words to that effect all nine times.

 

[Van]

The Greek word (G5364) philanthrōpōs refers to acting philanthropically and so kindly is not far from the mark, but humanely better reflects the word meanings distinctiveness. So while we find the flaw of translating an adverb as a noun, "in kindness" rather than kindly, the NIV has lots of company in the flawed choice brigade.

 

[Rippon2]

All the twenty I found can be "commonly" found on line.

I told you I was using Bible Gateway. I found just nine. That's less than half of your estimate. Only five are commonly used versions.

According to one analysis the NIV erred 15% more than the most consistent verses and ranked near the bottom.

What's your source?

 

[Van]

I told you I was using Bible Gateway. I found just nine. That's less than half of your estimate. Only five are commonly used versions.

What's your source?

All the twenty I found can be "commonly" found on line.
BSB, BLB, ISV, GWT, ERV,
NASB, CSB, HCSB, NET, WEB,
KJV, NKJV, KJ2000, AKJV, YLT,
GWT, ASV, NAS77, Darby, WBT, and WNT. I count 21

Once again Mr. Rippon, your claim has been falsified.

And once again the NIV flaws are exhaustive. Here again is my statement of fact from post #19:
Many translations render it as meaning love for mankind in Titus 3:4, at least 20 versions have words to that effect.

 

[Rippon2]

Romans 2:4 G5544 and G5543 (both words refer to kindness)

Nearly all the translations, including the NIV have kindness. So I don't see a problem. What is your problem?

Lets take Acts 4:9 and the word euergesia: the NIV translates it as "kindness" in Acts and "welfare" in 1 Timothy 6:2. The NASB uses "benefit" in both verses.

Regarding Acts 4:9, an overwhelming number of translations have good deed. The NIV has act of kindness. In the footnote of the NET it says for an act of kindness.

Concerning Romans 6:2 most translations have benefit. The NIV has devoted to the welfare. The footnote says benefit from the service.

Again, I don't see anything harmful in the rendering of the NIV. You are making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[Van]

Nearly all the translations, including the NIV have kindness. So I don't see a problem. What is your problem?

Regarding Acts 4:9, an overwhelming number of translations have good deed. The NIV has act of kindness. In the footnote of the NET it says for an act of kindness.

Concerning Romans 6:2 most translations have benefit. The NIV has devoted to the welfare. The footnote says benefit from the service.

Again, I don't see anything harmful in the rendering of the NIV. You are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Note Mr Rippon claims he does not "see the problem" as if personal incredulity was not a logical fallacy.

If readers think it is just dandy to translate different Greek words with differing meanings into the same English word, then they ignore the translation goals of correspondence and transparency.

The NIV suffers from systemic mistranslation, as can be found nearly everywhere you look. Four of the five words translated as "kindness" or words to that effect are "commonly" translated according to their actual meanings. But if you do not see translating a word that means love for humanity as "love" you need glasses if you do not want to hide the inspired message.

 

[Rippon2]

The Greek word (G15) in the NIV, in Acts 14:17 we get "kindness."

Most translations have doing good while the NIV has shown kindness. Goodspeed has kindnesses. Could you please tell me any material difference in meaning there is between "doing good" and "shown kindness."?

 

[Rippon2]

Once again Mr. Rippon, your claim has been falsified.

I had told you several times that I was using Bible Gateway. So please don't display ignorance Van.

 

[Van]

Most translations have doing good while the NIV has shown kindness. Goodspeed has kindnesses. Could you please tell me any material difference in meaning there is between "doing good" and "shown kindness."?

Everyone knows no matter the evidence, you will claim you do not see it. Words, Sir, have meaning, and if the translators alter the meaning, they corrupt the translation. Full Stop

Since the NIV fails completely the test for correspondence, I think we can agree it is incoherent.

 

[Van]

I had told you several times that I was using Bible Gateway. So please don't display ignorance Van.

Note folks, Mr. Rippon made a false claim, and lacks the character to even admit it. And so it goes with this gentleman.

 

[Rippon2]

I had asked you a direct question in post #33. Please answer it if it is in your limited skill set.

 

[Van]

Biblegateway did not list several of the versions I listed, but in addition to the 21 from my source, Biblegateway listed 13 additional versions, bring the total where words to the effect of love of humanity were found, totaling 34.

 

[Van]

I had asked you a direct question in post #33. Please answer it if it is in your limited skill set.

Lets see, have you posted falsehood upon false in this thread and never acknowledged your errors? That is a direct question.
You said you only found 9 on biblegatway and I found way more than 20 from your source.

Pay no attention to the unsupported claims of this poster, they may not be valid.

 

[Van]

In this thread we have presented multiple examples of translating different Greek word meanings into the same English word and translating the same Greek word meaning into multiple English words. Thus the NIV is very flawed when it comes to the goals of correspondence and transparency.