In Defense of Social Justice

[Zog Has-fallen]

Zog, Covenanter is an Englishman. CofE is the abbreviation for Church of England aka the Anglican Church aka (here in the States) the Episcopalians.

So Anglicans and Episcopalians have accused anabaptists of being communists? On what basis?

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Christian communalism is the thesis that the purpose of government is to restrain evil (Romans 13:1-7) and that the best government actually attainable by mortals would be guided by Christian principles. Christian communalists openly declare that paying taxes to maintain the essentials of a fair society is a moral requirement. Additionally, the laws of a just society would mandate that everyone is to be treated equally and fairly.

I understand you might imagine this, but it is beyond the pale of responsibility or ability for a worldly government, especially from a biblical perspective. However, I suspect you actually mean something other than fair, in other words something very unfair. Most socialists and communists do.

If the Christian principles of a Christian communalist government could be respected, then the golden rule would guarantee that widows and orphans would be helped.

And this is precisely where your fantasy world falls apart. You have no worldly Christian nation founded on strictly Christian principles governing a strictly Christian populace, do you? No, you don’t, and you will never have one, especially that prerequisite third item.

Nevertheless, that said, if you ever do happen to convert everyone to Christ, I will reconsider.

 

[Zog Has-fallen]

And this is precisely where your fantasy world falls apart. You have no worldly Christian nation founded on strictly Christian principles governing a strictly Christian populace, do you?

I never said or implied that the entire populace had to be Christian. Furthermore, I'm the first to confess that true social justice as defined by Scripture is purely academic because mighty Babylon the Great isn't going to allow it. Consequently, you're not addressing the right audience. Explain it to the Christian fascists that lust for war and a share in world control and believe at the same time that this is a Christian nation.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

I believe that you have been victimized by a fear that is all imaginary. Why do you imagine that the endtime world order (Revelation 18) is socialist?

What can I say? You are a master at ignoring posts and providing non sequitur. I think anyone reading the exchange can understand the disconnect, if he wants. As I’ve indicated before, it would be far better to first focus on 1 John, then keep it in mind while delving into Revelation.

By the way, I do agree that the world system is corrupt, and lament that the free world has so enriched communist China, when there is still such persecution of believers. And it is not the only such place.

 

[Zog Has-fallen]

I think anyone reading the exchange can understand the disconnect, if he wants.

I'm very happy with that and hopefully the forum administrators will overlook your defamatory statements and encourage the exercise of individual judgment.

2 Corinthians 3:17
Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

I never said or implied that the entire populace had to be Christian.

But to be accurate you should have.

Furthermore, I'm the first to confess that true social justice as defined by Scripture is purely academic because mighty Babylon the Great isn't going to allow it. Consequently, you're not addressing the right audience. Explain it to the Christian fascists that lust for war and a share in world control and believe at the same time that this is a Christian nation.

I'm not controlling the audience. This is all publicly viewable. And this discussion is not purely academic.

There is worldwide mass murder of babies in the womb and many Christians are speaking out against it. However, other Christians seem so concerned with satisfying their own greed or that of others that they actually encourage such slaughter in the name of "progress" and "social justice." Their priorities are backward.

 

[Zog Has-fallen]

There is worldwide mass murder of babies in the womb and many Christians are speaking out against it. However, other Christians seem so concerned with satisfying their own greed or that of others that they actually encourage such slaughter in the name of "progress" and "social justice." Their priorities are backward.

Yes, but let's not focus on the sins of Seventh-day Adventists exclusively. There are many other sanctimonious enablers of genocide.

 

[OnlyaSinner]

For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Seventh-day Adventist leadership, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

My own righteousness is at absolute zero, but by God's grace I am cloaked in the righteousness of my Savior. What SDA leaders think or do is irrelevant to my spiritual standing. Not sure what the purpose was in your above post; comparing ourselves in spiritual matters to anyone but Christ will lead us astray.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

true social justice as defined by Scripture

I find your statement intriguing. Please provide scriptural references to support it.

 

[Zog Has-fallen]

I find your statement intriguing. Please provide scriptural references to support it.

The link points to my Scriptural defense. And I've said this many times: All conclusions depend upon presuppositions. I take it as an axiom that the Scriptures are true and define social justice accordingly. Those who let the enemies of God take the high ground and accept their definitions of social justice are free to compromise with the world all they like. I believe their course is a traitorous strategy. I am not willing to betray Jesus Christ by making counterproductive concessions to the enemies of the gospel who unquestionably distort a Scriptural definition of true social justice. As for me and my fellowship, we will serve the Lord.

 

[Zog Has-fallen]

What SDA leaders think or do is irrelevant to my spiritual standing.

Are you saying that you oppose Christ's warning in Matthew 5:20 and any application of that warning by a Spirit-filled prophet-trainee whenever that true Christian encounters an obvious likeness to modern day Pharisees and teachers of the law?

 

[Zog Has-fallen]

And there are proponents of so-called “social justice” movements that wail loudly, bitterly, incessantly, vilifying others and misusing the Word of God to promote a socialist world order

I believe that you have been victimized by a fear that is all imaginary. Why do you imagine that the endtime world order (Revelation 18) is socialist?

How does the "socialist world order" that you dread in your unquestionably unfounded fantasies compare to the real endtime world order in Revelation 18?

 

[Zog Has-fallen]

it is beyond the pale of responsibility or ability for a worldly government, especially from a biblical perspective.

The issue here, I believe, is that you seem to repudiate modus ponens. Either the principles of all logically admissible governments are equally righteous/(unrighteous) or some governing principles are better than others. If you don't believe that the best government actually attainable by mortals would be guided by Christian principles (as I assert), then please define the governing principles of your ideal fantasy government that would most effectively restrain our sinful race in our present circumstances. Perhaps you secretly believe that Sharia law or the Noahide laws are just as good as the Christian principles I cited from Scripture. Shame on you.

 

[Acts1:8not4me]

Luke 10:25-37
And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How do you read it?” And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” And he said to him, “You have answered correctly; do this, and you will live.”

But he, desiring to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” Jesus replied, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who stripped him and beat him and departed, leaving him half dead. Now by chance a priest was going down that road, and when he saw him he passed by on the other side. So likewise a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he journeyed, came to where he was, and when he saw him, he had compassion. He went to him and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he set him on his own animal and brought him to an inn and took care of him. And the next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper, saying, ‘Take care of him, and whatever more you spend, I will repay you when I come back.’ Which of these three, do you think, proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell among the robbers?” He said, “The one who showed him mercy.” And Jesus said to him, “You go, and do likewise.”

There are enemies of social justice that wail loudly, bitterly, incessantly, vilifying and misusing the word "socialism", because their hearts are at enmity against God and consequently, not surprisingly, they’re very inclined to approve of theft and murder for profit.

Has anyone noticed the use of the swastika in the previous video?

I stand with the independent Baptist pastor Dr. Chuck Baldwin and his very probable understanding of the protest hinted at here:

 

[Acts1:8not4me]

The OT Law is filled with righting social injustices well as the NT.

However the biggest difference between the world's version of correcting social injustice is that the world's version is under the auspices of the EVIL ONE while God's version is to come in the kingdom of God on earth (now, millennium, eternity) under the reign of Jesus Christ.

1 John 5:19 We know that we belong to God, and the whole world is under the power of the evil one.

You seem to overlook the fact that in the NT Books written to the Church we are NOT told to correct social injustices!. Instead, we are to live transformed lives -- full of the Holy Spirit -- and care for fellow believers, NOT the anti-God world of sinners.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

The link points to my Scriptural defense. And I've said this many times: All conclusions depend upon presuppositions. I take it as an axiom that the Scriptures are true and define social justice accordingly. Those who let the enemies of God take the high ground and accept their definitions of social justice are free to compromise with the world all they like. I believe their course is a traitorous strategy. I am not willing to betray Jesus Christ by making counterproductive concessions to the enemies of the gospel who unquestionably distort a Scriptural definition of true social justice. As for me and my fellowship, we will serve the Lord.

I am disappointed that you offer no scripture references to validate your statement.

 

[Acts1:8not4me]

Why is it that the Apostle Paul never commends "the Good Samaritan" or tells his readers to do anything similar to what Jesus told His audiences? Could it be that Jesus "came unto His own" (Jn 1:1) and ministered to them as their Messiah? When the Jews rejected Him, things changed when the gospel of God's grace was preached to Jews but also (mainly) to Gentiles.

 

[HankD]

You seem to overlook the fact that in the NT Books written to the Church we are NOT told to correct social injustices!. Instead, we are to live transformed lives -- full of the Holy Spirit -- and care for fellow believers, NOT the anti-God world of sinners.

Where did I say to "correct social injustices!".

You have falsely accused me.

 

[Zog Has-fallen]

I am disappointed that you offer no scripture references to validate your statement.

Let me guess: You're on the same side with those Seventh-day Adventist leaders in post #5 that teach that social justice is some sort of diabolical satanic plot? Where is your Scripture for that?

 

[Acts1:8not4me]

Where did I say to "correct social injustices!".

You have falsely accused me.

Forgive me if I read you wrong. I did not intend to misrepresent you.
Do you, then, believe that Bible-believers today are to try to correct social injustice -- or not? Personally, I don't see Paul commanding or commending that or anything similar -- or rebuking believers for not doing it.