In What Sense Does The Spirit Enlighten All Mankind

[Zaatar71]

I fear this is faint praise, as you did not tie how I see things with how scripture teaches things.

1) No acknowledgement that the fallen are "made sinners."

2) No acknowledgement that the lost can discern the invisible attributes of God from what He has made, indicating some spiritual ability.

3) No one can believe in Christ, hanging learned from the Father, unless God allows the belief. Thus God may disable some (those hardened) but all the rest, having heard, are able come to faith. Many come to believe with reservations, but God does not credit their faith as righteousness those less than fully committed.

I thanked you for responding and explaining your ideas. You have some things true, and many false ideas. You did not ask me to interact with your views. I just wanted to hear you explain. You do realize you are outside the mainstream of thought, don"t you?

 

[Van]

I thanked you for responding and explaining your ideas. You have some things true, and many false ideas. You did not ask me to interact with your views. I just wanted to hear you explain. You do realize you are outside the mainstream of thought, don"t you?

It does not matter, whether I am in the majority or minority if I am correct.

Is Calvinism the majorly view of Baptists. No Does that stop their posting?

Did 1 Corinthians 2:14 say all things? Nope.

Did Paul speak to "men of flesh" using spiritual milk? Yes. What reason is given by "the mainstream of thought" for Paul speaking to immature believers in the same way he spoke to men of flesh? Answer, none.

Lets take enabling grace, called Irresistible grace by Calvinists. Do the Arminians believe that grace is irresistible? Nope, So "the mainstream of thought" is thought to be wrong by its members. Is there any support in scripture? Nope. No one seeks God is rewritten to claim no one ever seeks God, when verse after verse describes the lost seeking God. It is nonsense.

 

[Van]

John 1:4 NASB
In Him was life, and the life was the Light of mankind.

I expect many understand this verse to indicate Jesus possessed the power to convey life (eternal life with God) to mankind.

And this means Jesus is the means of reconciliation, which then results in those having received the reconciliation, eternal life. So the lost are in darkness, the realm of darkness and Jesus provides the light illuminating the way to eternal life.

So does the Spirit of God, whether in the Person of the Father or Son or Holy Spirit, enlighten mankind. Yes, absolutely yes.
But does this illumination, hearing and understanding the gospel, always result in the person fully embracing the requirements of the gospel? No, some cannot even hear or understand, and others embrace the gospel superficially, without deep root, and still others accept it, but put it among other worldly concerns.

 

[Zaatar71]

It does not matter, whether I am in the majority or minority if I am correct.

Is Calvinism the majorly view of Baptists. No Does that stop their posting?

Did 1 Corinthians 2:14 say all things? Nope.

What if that is exactly what it means? it does not say "only some things "of the Spirit of God as you insert into the text, does it? Huh? What do you say to that? How do you take it upon yourself to rewrite this text?

Did Paul speak to "men of flesh" using spiritual milk? Yes. What reason is given by "the mainstream of thought" for Paul speaking to immature believers in the same way he spoke to men of flesh? Answer, none.

Lets take enabling grace, called Irresistible grace by Calvinists. Do the Arminians believe that grace is irresistible? Nope, So "the mainstream of thought" is thought to be wrong by its members. Is there any support in scripture? Nope. No one seeks God is rewritten to claim no one ever seeks God, when verse after verse describes the lost seeking God. It is nonsense.

 

[kyredneck]

You do realize you are outside the mainstream of thought, don"t you?

@Van is hardcore flaming free willer with severe CDS. They're much more common than you'd think.

 

[Zaatar71]

@Van is hardcore flaming free willer with severe CDS.

What do you think to be the root cause of this CDS?
Did he not have a set of Lincoln Logs as a child? lol
Has he failed to properly examine the texts?
Has he been beguiled by a false teacher?
Is he just an ornery person?
Help us solve this mystery

 

[kyredneck]

What do you think to be the root cause of this CDS?
Did he not have a set of Lincoln Logs as a child? lol
Has he failed to properly examine the texts?
Has he been beguiled by a false teacher?
Is he just an ornery person?
Help us solve this mystery

Good questions.

IMO, a root cause of CDS is refusal to accept the Potter's right over the clay.

 

[Van]

What if that is exactly what it means? it does not say "only some things "of the Spirit of God as you insert into the text, does it? Huh? What do you say to that? How do you take it upon yourself to rewrite this text?

No it does not say, all things, or some of the things. To claim one or the other, without citing another verse supporting one view or the other is unstudied nonsense.

Those that claim one or the other are rewriting the text, but to interpret the text based on context is not a rewrite.

Why did Paul use spiritual milk when talking to immature Christians AND men of flesh? (1 Corinthians 3:1-3) The reason, is some "men of flesh" can understand spiritual milk, like the second, third and fourth soils of Matthew 13. You cannot claim the second and third soils had been compelled to believe via irresistible grace, because they fell away. Thus they were not "enabled" by the Calvinist Irresistible Grace.

You see, I am not rewriting scripture, I am defending my understanding of scripture.

 

[Van]

Good questions.

IMO, a root cause of CDS is refusal to accept the Potter's right over the clay.

Kyredneck makes up false charges and posts them. Do I accept the Potter's right over the clay? Yes. Therefore I accept scripture as written and try not to add or take away. Kyrednect was taught "the things" means "all the things" and so anyone who says "no it does not" is not accepting God's right. Never mind, the right in view is a man-made invention, not of God.

The claim of CDS is an against the person fallacious argument, beneath the dignity of the forum's decorum.

 

[JesusFan]

Once again you do not address what I said, but invent a bogus view, then attribute it might be mine. Deflection.

​

Apart from supernatural enablement alteration, every lost person saved is saved.​

The claim of some is that the Fall made the lost unable to seek God or trust fully in Christ, thus God must supernaturally alter, via "Irresistible Grace" the lost in order to save them. However, scripture indicates the lost are able to understand spiritual milk, thus are able to hear and learn from the Father (via the gospel message) and if they do as determined by God, He saves them.

Spiritual milk and meat refers ONLY to hose having already been saved, never to the spiritual dead and blinded

 

[kyredneck]

Spiritual milk and meat refers ONLY to hose having already been saved,

Correct, they're 'babes in Christ', NOT the 'natural man' of the previous chapter, but @Van's acute CDS and refusal to accept the Potter's right over the clay blinds him to that truth.

 

[Zaatar71]

Good questions.

IMO, a root cause of CDS is refusal to accept the Potter's right over the clay.

So... you are suggesting that God is God, and we fall short of being God?

 

[Van]

Spiritual milk and meat refers ONLY to hose having already been saved, never to the spiritual dead and blinded

Incredible inability to grasp 1 Corinthians 3:1.

 

[Zaatar71]

No it does not say, all things, or some of the things. To claim one or the other, without citing another verse supporting one view or the other is unstudied nonsense.

Well how about we explore the immediate context. I have heard many people suggest that is a good thing to do.
let's look at two verses right before it;
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

II might be unlearned as you say, but it sure looks like it says "all things"

Do you see it now? has it become clear "

Those that claim one or the other are rewriting the text, but to interpret the text based on context is not a rewrite.

Now it looks like you are re-writing, does it not?

Why did Paul use spiritual milk when talking to immature Christians AND men of flesh? (1 Corinthians 3:1-3)

Because they were acting out of character if they were Christians at all, They behaved as if they were yet unsaved?

The reason, is some "men of flesh" can understand spiritual milk,

The text does not say anything close to that. Some would say that is a stretch...do you see it as a stretch now?

like the second, third and fourth soils of Matthew 13. You cannot claim the second and third soils had been compelled to believe via irresistible grace, because they fell away. Thus they were not "enabled" by the Calvinist Irresistible Grace.

Not sure what you are talking about? can we stay on the topic of this text?

You see, I am not rewriting scripture, I am defending my understanding of scripture.

No, you look like a suspect now , so it seems.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

In What Sense Does The Spirit Enlighten All Mankind​

In no sense does the spirit enlighten all mankind.

(Jhn 14:26 KJV) But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The Holy Spirit exists in the redeemed.

(2Co 6:14 KJV) Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
(2Co 6:15 KJV) And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
(2Co 6:16 KJV) And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(2Co 6:17 KJV) Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,

(Jhn 17:9 KJV) I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

"And what concord hath Christ with Belial?" Or, what relation does the Holy Spirit have with the children of satan?

 

[JesusFan]

Incredible inability to grasp 1 Corinthians 3:1.

Apostle paul Van in that chapter clearly stated that spiritual milk and meat only for the saved, as lost sinners cannot discern the spiritual things of God, as milk is foe babes in Christ, while meat for the more mature in Christ

 

[JesusFan]

Well how about we explore the immediate context. I have heard many people suggest that is a good thing to do.
let's look at two verses right before it;
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

II might be unlearned as you say, but it sure looks like it says "all things"

Do you see it now? has it become clear "


Now it looks like you are re-writing, does it not?


Because they were acting out of character if they were Christians at all, They behaved as if they were yet unsaved?



The text does not say anything close to that. Some would say that is a stretch...do you see it as a stretch now?



Not sure what you are talking about? can we stay on the topic of this text?

No, you look like a suspect now , so it seems.

Paul very clear when he stated that only saved can receive either spiritual milk or meat

 

[kyredneck]

let's look at two verses right before it;

The Potter hath mercy on whom He will:

1 Corinthians 2:12
But we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God; that we might know the things that were freely given to us of God.

...and whom He will He hardens:

1` Corinthians 2:14
Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Van]

Well how about we explore the immediate context. I have heard many people suggest that is a good thing to do.
let's look at two verses right before it;
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

II might be unlearned as you say, but it sure looks like it says "all things"

Do you see it now? has it become clear "


Now it looks like you are re-writing, does it not?


Because they were acting out of character if they were Christians at all, They behaved as if they were yet unsaved?



The text does not say anything close to that. Some would say that is a stretch...do you see it as a stretch now?



Not sure what you are talking about? can we stay on the topic of this text?

No, you look like a suspect now , so it seems.

I did not see any attempt to answer why Paul speaks to "men of flesh" using spiritual milk, if they cannot understand spiritual milk.

1 Corinthians 2:10, NASB
For to us God revealed through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.

This verse says the Spirit reveals even the depths of God. Thus, the context points to these people being mature Christians able to understand spiritual solid food. It provides absolutely no support for the fiction that all of the lost cannot understand spiritual milk.

It is not a stretch to say Paul used spiritual milk to talk to "men of flesh" because they could understand spiritual milk. Any other claim is a stretch.

No, I did not add "all" or "some of" but interpreted the things to refer to the spiritual solid food things, per the context.

1 Corinthians 2:12 NASB
Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God.

This verse says we have been indwelt with the Spirit of God so we may know the things freely given to us by God. So again, spiritual solid food can only be understood and "known" by those indwelt, the lost cannot understand spiritual solid food. The verse provides absolutely no support for the idea that the lost cannot understand spiritual milk.

Thus the verses you posted do not even suggest support for Total Spiritual Inability.

The men of flesh were not acting out of character, so why did Paul address men of flesh using spiritual milk.

Matthew 13 is on topic, with 3 of the four types of people being able to understand spiritual milk, the gospel.

I am the one defending my understanding of scripture, you are the one questioning my character.

 

[Van]

Apostle paul Van in that chapter clearly stated that spiritual milk and meat only for the saved, as lost sinners cannot discern the spiritual things of God, as milk is foe babes in Christ, while meat for the more mature in Christ

Just how did Soil #2 receive the gospel with joy, if he could not discern the spiritual milk things of God? You have no answer.