Infants in hell

[Agent47]

Yes Arminianism holds on to total depravity but not Calvinistic dead body variety. The dead in sins don't need regeneration to respond to the Gospel...in that state God draws them by His Grace, they hear,believe,are regenerated and saved. But this grace is resistible, and resisting is what sends some to hell.

So Jesus calls ALL and died for ALL, but only those who reject are damned.

Please study Arminianism before distressing in utter ignorance

Arminians also belive that sinners cannot come to Christ on their own efforts, correct?

And total depraived mans the sinner cannot come to Christ for salvtion alone,as their sin nature precludes that from happening!

 

[Agent47]

He 'allows' only what He Wills, right?

For is it even logical for God to 'allow' what is contrary to His Will while His Will always prevails?

God directly determined, direct caused some things to happen, and allowed others to make decisions/do tihings that still fit into His planGod ordained that Jesus would have one of His own be a traitor, and Judas willfully accepted that role!

 

[Yeshua1]

Jonathan Edwards, The "Miscellanies," Entry Nos. a–z, aa–zz, 1–500

n. DAMNATION OF INFANTS.
One of these two things are certainly true, and self-evidently so: either that it is most just, exceeding just, that God should take the soul of a new-born infant and cast it into eternal torments, or else that those infants that are saved are not saved by the death of Christ. For none are saved by the death of Christ from damnation that have not deserved damnation
http://edwards.yale.edu/archive?pat...nZXRvYmplY3QucGw/Yy4xMjo0OjEud2plby41NjQ4NTI=

He believed in infant reprobation hence the careful distinction between Elect and non-Elect infants. The former are saved from damnation by Christ implying they are worthy of damnation to start with.

If you subscribe to Augustine's inherited corruption and guilt theories, as Calvin and his disciples did, this is the only inescapable logical conclusion.

We agree with Calvin that Infants deserve Hell, as all of us do being found in Adam, but we hold that Jesuspaid for the sins of all babies, and God will not hold their sins against them due to the Cross!
Is God not free to have Grace and mercy on them, doing for them what they cannot do themselves!

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes Arminianism holds on to total depravity but not Calvinistic dead body variety. The dead in sins don't need regeneration to respond to the Gospel...in that state God draws them by His Grace, they hear,believe,are regenerated and saved. But this grace is resistible, and resisting is what sends some to hell.

So Jesus calls ALL and died for ALL, but only those who reject are damned.

Please study Arminianism before distressing in utter ignorance

I understand it well, and they do indeed hold to being dead in sins and still need Grace of God applied to save them, just they believ God applies that saving grace to all, not just some!

 

[Yeshua1]

He 'allows' only what He Wills, right?

For is it even logical for God to 'allow' what is contrary to His Will while His Will always prevails?

God has a permissiveWill alowing for things in this Age of Grace, but once Jesus returns, all htings shall be done always in His will here!

God never would murder, but Babies keep being murdered still in abortions. That ends whe Jesus returns!

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I will state my position first, then ask for yours.

After this, I will be convinced you are no troll out to derail me, and I will try my best to back it with scriptures.


All infants dying in infancy are in heaven.

So Martin, what's your position?

I gave my position in a reply I made to you in Post #30 and to which you made no reply.
So now, please give some Scriptural authority for your position.

 

[Agent47]

Sorry, I had not seen it.

Must say it is terribly ambiguous. Can you in a single short sentence state your position?

I gave my position in a reply I made to you in Post #30 and to which you made no reply.
So now, please give some Scriptural authority for your position.

 

[Agent47]

So according to what you know of Arminianism, why do some perish seeing God 'applies saving grace to all'?

I understand it well, andthey do indeed hold to being dead in sins and still need Grace of God applied to save them, just they believ God applies that saving grace to all, not just some!

 

[Agent47]

So 'permissive' will is what God wills to be done?

God has a permissiveWill alowing for things in this Age of Grace, but once Jesus returns, all htings shall be done always in His will here!

God never would murder, but Babies keep being murdered still in abortions. That ends whe Jesus returns!

 

[Agent47]

Why do infants 'deserve hell'?

And on what basis do you conclude their sins paid and not for adults?

We agree with Calvin that Infants deserve Hell, as all of us do being found in Adam, but we hold that Jesuspaid for the sins of all babies, and God will not hold their sins against them due to the Cross!
Is God not free to have Grace and mercy on them, doing for them what they cannot do themselves!

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Sorry, I had not seen it.

Must say it is terribly ambiguous. Can you in a single short sentence state your position?

It seems perfectly clear to me.

Now, about your Scriptural justification for your view..........

 

[Agent47]

It matters only if it is clear to those you are writing for not yourself. That's why this is a forum, not your prayer closet or study room

Once again, what is your position?

It seems perfectly clear to me.

Now, about your Scriptural justification for your view..........

 

[Yeshua1]

So according to what you know of Arminianism, why do some perish seeing God 'applies saving grace to all'?

They would say God honors free will choice to reject Jesu!

 

[Yeshua1]

So 'permissive' will is what God wills to be done?

What He allows to be done!

 

[Yeshua1]

Why do infants 'deserve hell'?

And on what basis do you conclude their sins paid and not for adults?

Adults have tthe capacity to reject Jesus, but babies do not have tha means!
ALL are sinnrs, so sin debt needs to be paid, and Jesus did for sake of infants...

 

[Martin Marprelate]

It matters only if it is clear to those you are writing for not yourself. That's why this is a forum, not your prayer closet or study room

Once again, what is your position?

I will give no further reply until I have received your Scriptural reasons for your view.
I think you may be a troll and unless I receive a proper response from you I will be reporting your posts with a view to having you removed from the board.

My understanding is that all sorts of views are tolerated here, but one is not permitted continually to ask questions without setting forth one's own position. So get on with it.

 

[Agent47]

You are incoherent.

If infants have no capacity to reject Jesus why are they sinners?

Adults have tthe capacity to reject Jesus, but babies do not have tha means!
ALL are sinnrs, so sin debt needs to be paid, and Jesus did for sake of infants...

 

[Agent47]

I have given my position and I await yours before substantiating mine. You have dithered yet you demand obedience? You are funny. I don't owe you an explanation anyway. Nevertheless, I won't hesitate to share my understanding with honest members, not shadow boxers as I am not in the least ashamed or embarrassed of my beliefs

Once again Martin, could you briefly state your position in the fewest and clearest terms as I have done mine?

Here's my view
All infants dying in infancy end up in heaven

PS
I perceive a subtle threat to ban me. Go right ahead and make my day.

I will give no further reply until I have received your Scriptural reasons for your view.
I think you may be a troll and unless I receive a proper response from you I will be reporting your posts with a view to having you removed from the board.

My understanding is that all sorts of views are tolerated here, but one is not permitted continually to ask questions without setting forth one's own position. So get on with it.

 

[Yeshua1]

You are incoherent.

If infants have no capacity to reject Jesus why are they sinners?

ALL have sinned in Fall of Adam, so sin debt still needs to be paid to God!

 

[Yeshua1]

I have given my position and I await yours before substantiating mine. You have dithered yet you demand obedience? You are funny. I don't owe you an explanation anyway. Nevertheless, I won't hesitate to share my understanding with honest members, not shadow boxers as I am not in the least ashamed or embarrassed of my beliefs

Once again Martin, could you briefly state your position in the fewest and clearest terms as I have done mine?

Here's my view
All infants dying in infancy end up in heaven

PS
I perceive a subtle threat to ban me. Go right ahead and make my day.

I agree with you, but why are they allowed into Heaven then?