Insincere gospel offer Part 2

[Strannik]

Meaty like the Book of Mormon, you mean. And don't call me brother.

Why shouldn't he call you brother?

 

[Strannik]

There will still be some who will say that God always knew it was possible, but wasn't for certain man would fall.

Aaron, I can tell you a great secret, but the fact that people will be tempted and even sin, in fact, all people know and easily make such prophecies.
Give any child freedom and put some delicious things in his field of vision, while forbidding him to touch them, but he will still find a way to take them. Especially if you know that the Tempter is walking and crawling in Your Garden.
Here again, just as children can be obedient to their parents to the end, so Adam and Eve could be completely obedient to the end.
They made their own choice and were punished for it.

 

[Iconoclast]

As was predestinated of God. Come on bro'. You know Calvinism. Be consistent.

You are suggesting God forced Adam to sin.
The bible does not say that anywhere.
There is no verse using predestination in such a way.

 

[Iconoclast]

It was God who in his sovereignty set the parameters of the effects of the fall.

So?when He said dying thou shalt surely die do you think He was kidding?
You blame God. That is your answer?
When God has the angels cast unbelievers into hell you blame Him for their rebellion.
In rev.19:1-4 the saints in Heaven sing alleluia true and righteous are His Judgments.

 

[Hark]

Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. 7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. KJV

Then explain why the Holy Spirit led these disciples to not preach to certain areas but yet come to Macedonia instead?

Acts 16:6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia, 7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not. 8 And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas. 9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. 10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them. KJV

Do you want to be exposed to the PERSONAL intentions of a REASONABLE Person? We can only speculate.
1) Someone was already a Christian there and worked quite well.
2) Remembering that Paul himself was a native of Asia Minor or simply Asia at that time, it is likely that the Holy Spirit simply saved Paul himself from unnecessary persecution and / or attempts.

About the fact that God simply wished death to those about whom He also said that it was necessary to preach for them, so that everyone would hear and believe... It's kind of weird, don't you think?

Thank you for sharing your speculation.

If someone was already a Christian there, then that Christian would be able to endorse Paul by offering the right hand of fellowship as Peter & James & john had done.

Galatians 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. KJV

If Paul was a native to the actual area where the natives would not listen to Paul being his actual countryman & former neighbor, as far as outreach goes because of Mark 6:4, that may be understandable, but I do not see that as limiting him also from fellowship.

Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him. 4 But Jesus, said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house. 5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. ~ KJV

Also, Timothy was with Paul as this was the pair travelling that the Holy Spirit had forbade them to go to those nations but instead gave Paul a vison to go to Macedonia.

Acts 16:1Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father was a Greek: 2 Which was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium. 3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek. 4 And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem. ~ KJV

I believe God foreknew those who would receive Jesus from those that would not per Matthew 7:6-8 for why He forbade Paul & Timothy through the Holy Spirit in them to go to those foreign nations but gave Paul a vision to go to Macedonia instead because at that time the Father knew they were seeking Him to receive His Son.

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day...44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. KJV

Thank you again for sharing your speculation anyway. I believe this is the answer for the 2 questions I had asked that other poster about for why that poster has not responded yet since it is contrary to that poster's personal belief & theology.

 

[Strannik]

Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. 7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. KJV

Then explain why the Holy Spirit led these disciples to not preach to certain areas but yet come to Macedonia instead?

Acts 16:6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia, 7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not. 8 And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas. 9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. 10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them. KJV



Thank you for sharing your speculation.

If someone was already a Christian there, then that Christian would be able to endorse Paul by offering the right hand of fellowship as Peter & James & john had done.

Galatians 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. KJV

If Paul was a native to the actual area where the natives would not listen to Paul being his actual countryman & former neighbor, as far as outreach goes because of Mark 6:4, that may be understandable, but I do not see that as limiting him also from fellowship.

Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him. 4 But Jesus, said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house. 5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. ~ KJV

Also, Timothy was with Paul as this was the pair travelling that the Holy Spirit had forbade them to go to those nations but instead gave Paul a vison to go to Macedonia.

Acts 16:1Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father was a Greek: 2 Which was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium. 3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek. 4 And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem. ~ KJV

I believe God foreknew those who would receive Jesus from those that would not per Matthew 7:6-8 for why He forbade Paul & Timothy through the Holy Spirit in them to go to those foreign nations but gave Paul a vision to go to Macedonia instead because at that time the Father knew they were seeking Him to receive His Son.

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day...44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. KJV

Thank you again for sharing your speculation anyway. I believe this is the answer for the 2 questions I had asked that other poster about for why that poster has not responded yet since it is contrary to that poster's personal belief & theology.

You have piled up a lot of things that do not matter in this text. Provided that there were already Christians there, and Paul was not preaching in the place where someone had already preached, but was looking for completely new places, then it is clear that the Holy Spirit forbade him to go to Asia,but sent him on.

 

[Hark]

You have piled up a lot of things that do not matter in this text. Provided that there were already Christians there, and Paul was not preaching in the place where someone had already preached, but was looking for completely new places, then it is clear that the Holy Spirit forbade him to go to Asia,but sent him on.

I do not understand why you are wanting to hold to that speculation when nothing in the text explains why they were forbidden to go to Asia & suffer them not to go to Bithynia.

Acts 16:6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia, 7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not. 8 And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas. 9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. 10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

So it is best to address your speculation that Paul was a native of Asia Minor or simply Asia at that time for why he was forbidden to go there.

We know Paul was a Roman citizen;

Acts 16:37 But Paul said unto them, They have beaten us openly uncondemned, being Romans, and have cast us into prison; and now do they thrust us out privily? nay verily; but let them come themselves and fetch us out. 38 And the serjeants told these words unto the magistrates: and they feared, when they heard that they were Romans. KJV

We know Paul is of Tarsus which is south central Turkey is today. And since Turkey is south western part of Asia minor; hence Turkey is considered ancient Asia Minor, Paul is only a native to Tarsus.

'Paul was a Greek-speaking Jew from Asia Minor. His birthplace, Tarsus, was a major city in eastern Cilicia, a region that had been made part of the Roman province of Syria by the time of Paul's adulthood."

Where is Tarsus located today?.

Acts 9:11And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth, KJV

Acts 11:25 Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul: 26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch. KJV

Since Paul has founded churches in several parts of Asia Minor since Antioch is in Asia Minor also, per Acts 11:25 which is an event before Acts 16:6-10, then it should be discerned that there were no more seeking Him at this time anywhere in Asia nor in Bithynia, but the people in Macedonia were.

So there were believers in different parts of Asia minor but not in all of Asian Minor and so to say because Paul was a native, as if that was the reason for the Holy Spirit forbid him not to go there is not sound.

But also saying because there were already believers there when obviously church planting was done only in several cities of Asia & not in all of Asia and in the case of Bithynia; "Bithynia (/ bɪˈθɪniə /; Koine Greek: Βιθυνία, Bithynía) was an ancient region, kingdom and Roman province in the northwest of Asia Minor, adjoining the Sea of Marmara, the Bosporus, and the Black Sea., "..... thus a region larger than a city, indicating no church there & neither was any one seeking Him yet at that time, but in Macedonia, there were. Macedonia. is "Ancient Macedonia, in stark contrast to the age of the Greek city-states, was a regional Greek (Macedonian ethnicity, not necesarily Greek) kingdom. It was located north-east of the Greek mainland and northwest of Asia Minor. Macedonians were the Greeks who had to contend with all of the many war-like European tribes."

So Paul's dream was to represent a people seeking Him in the region of Macedonia since Paul & Timothy preached the gospel unto "them" so as to not take the dream literally as if it was one man seeking Him in Paul's dream. And since it was more than one man seeking him in Macedonia, it goes to show how in all of Asia & Bithynia, no one was seeking Him at that time. .

Would that not be rightly dividing the word of truth in that regards?

 

[Yeshua1]

You're the one suggesting that by Calvinism.
We don't believe God condemns people for not believing when he makes them unable to believe.

God didn't they chose to reject Jesus themselves!

 

[Yeshua1]

Exactly. That's exactly the Calvinist position, although some Calvinists, here and there, especially high Calvinists, will kind of say it while also stating that somehow God remains sinless.

We do not find fault with God, but non cals do see Him as being "not fair/puppet master"

 

[Yeshua1]

I do not understand why you are wanting to hold to that speculation when nothing in the text explains why they were forbidden to go to Asia & suffer them not to go to Bithynia.

Acts 16:6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia, 7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not. 8 And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas. 9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. 10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

So it is best to address your speculation that Paul was a native of Asia Minor or simply Asia at that time for why he was forbidden to go there.

We know Paul was a Roman citizen;

Acts 16:37 But Paul said unto them, They have beaten us openly uncondemned, being Romans, and have cast us into prison; and now do they thrust us out privily? nay verily; but let them come themselves and fetch us out. 38 And the serjeants told these words unto the magistrates: and they feared, when they heard that they were Romans. KJV

We know Paul is of Tarsus which is south central Turkey is today. And since Turkey is south western part of Asia minor; hence Turkey is considered ancient Asia Minor, Paul is only a native to Tarsus.

'Paul was a Greek-speaking Jew from Asia Minor. His birthplace, Tarsus, was a major city in eastern Cilicia, a region that had been made part of the Roman province of Syria by the time of Paul's adulthood."

Where is Tarsus located today?.

Acts 9:11And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth, KJV

Acts 11:25 Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul: 26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch. KJV

Since Paul has founded churches in several parts of Asia Minor since Antioch is in Asia Minor also, per Acts 11:25 which is an event before Acts 16:6-10, then it should be discerned that there were no more seeking Him at this time anywhere in Asia nor in Bithynia, but the people in Macedonia were.

So there were believers in different parts of Asia minor but not in all of Asian Minor and so to say because Paul was a native, as if that was the reason for the Holy Spirit forbid him not to go there is not sound.

But also saying because there were already believers there when obviously church planting was done only in several cities of Asia & not in all of Asia and in the case of Bithynia; "Bithynia (/ bɪˈθɪniə /; Koine Greek: Βιθυνία, Bithynía) was an ancient region, kingdom and Roman province in the northwest of Asia Minor, adjoining the Sea of Marmara, the Bosporus, and the Black Sea., "..... thus a region larger than a city, indicating no church there & neither was any one seeking Him yet at that time, but in Macedonia, there were. Macedonia. is "Ancient Macedonia, in stark contrast to the age of the Greek city-states, was a regional Greek (Macedonian ethnicity, not necesarily Greek) kingdom. It was located north-east of the Greek mainland and northwest of Asia Minor. Macedonians were the Greeks who had to contend with all of the many war-like European tribes."

So Paul's dream was to represent a people seeking Him in the region of Macedonia since Paul & Timothy preached the gospel unto "them" so as to not take the dream literally as if it was one man seeking Him in Paul's dream. And since it was more than one man seeking him in Macedonia, it goes to show how in all of Asia & Bithynia, no one was seeking Him at that time. .

Would that not be rightly dividing the word of truth in that regards?

The Holy Spirit redirected Paul in his travels, as He did say stop going your way and now go My way!

 

[Alan Gross]

It is sincere for God to Point Out that all are condemned.

All were lost and some of the religiously lost always will be:

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you:
depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:23

...unless God Makes them Alive, Spiritually.

…20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God?
Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it,
“Why did You make me like this?”

21 Does not the potter have the right
to make from the same lump of clay one vessel
for special occasions and another for common use?

22 What if God, intending to show His wrath
and make His power known,
bore with great patience the vessels of His wrath,
prepared for destruction?…




1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,

2 in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience.…
Berean Study Bible · Download


Genesis 8:21
When the LORD smelled the pleasing aroma, He said in His heart, "Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from his youth. And never again will I destroy all living creatures as I have done.

Luke 15:24
For this son of mine was dead and is alive again! He was lost and is found!' So they began to celebrate.

Ephesians 2:5
made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved!

Ephesians 4:18
They are darkened in their understanding and alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardness of their hearts.

Ephesians 5:14
So it is said: "Wake up, O sleeper, rise up from the dead, and Christ will shine on you."

Colossians 2:13
When you were dead in your trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our trespasses

 

[George Antonios]

You are suggesting God forced Adam to sin.

No sir, you are, by teaching Calvinism.

 

[Strannik]

Well, you yourself have found the fact that God here did not just predestine the inhabitants of Asia to perdition, but Paul simply acted in accordance with the vision and his act was an answer to the prayers of the Macedonians.
---------------------------------
1 After passing through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a Jewish synagogue.
2 Paul, as was his custom, went in to them and spoke to them three Sabbaths from the Scriptures,
3 revealing and proving to them that Christ was to suffer and rise from the dead, and that this Christ is Jesus, whom I preach to you.
4 And some of them believed and joined Paul and Silas, both of the God-worshipping Greeks a great multitude, and of the noblewomen not a few.
5 But the unbelieving Jews, being jealous, and taking some wicked men out of the square, gathered together in a crowd, and stirred up the city, and came to the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.
6 But when they could not find them, they dragged Jason and some of the brothers to the city leaders, shouting that these all-world troublemakers had come here also,
7 and Jason has received them, and they are all acting against the decrees of Caesar, saying there is another king, Jesus.
8 And they alarmed the people, and the magistrates of the city, who heard this.
9 But these men, having received a certificate from Jason and the others, let them go.
10 But the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas by night to Berea, where they arrived and went to the synagogue of the Jews.
11 The people here were more thoughtful than the people of Thessalonica: they received the word with all their zeal, examining the Scriptures daily to see if this was true.
12 many of them therefore believed, with not a few Greek women and men.
13 But when the Jews of Thessalonica learned that the word of God had also been preached by Paul in Berea, they also came there, stirring up and stirring up the people.
14 Then the brethren immediately dismissed Paul, as if he were going to the sea; but Silas and Timothy remained there.
15 Those who accompanied Paul accompanied him as far as Athens, and having received orders from Silas and Timothy to come to him as soon as possible, they set out.
16 While waiting for them in Athens, Paul was filled with indignation at the sight of this city full of idols.
17 So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews, and with those who worship God, and daily in the square with those who meet.
18 Some of the epicurean and stoic philosophers began to dispute with him; and some said: `what he wants to say this sheslow?', and others: 'it seems that he preaches about foreign deities', because he preached to them the gospel of Jesus and the resurrection.
19 And they took him, and brought him to the areopagus, and said, " Can we know what this new teaching is that you are preaching?"
20 For you are putting something strange in our ears.
21 But all the Athenians, and the foreigners who live with them, were more willing to spend their time in nothing than in talking or listening to something new.
22 And Paul stood in the midst of the areopagus, and said, Athenians! I can see from everything that you are, as it were, particularly devout.
23 For as I went through and examined your holy places, I also found an altar on which it is written, `To an unknown God.' Therefore, the one Whom you worship without knowing, him I proclaim to you.
24 The God who created the world and all that is in it, He, being the Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in man-made temples
25 and he does not require the service of the hands of men, as if he had need of anything, and he himself gives life and breath to all things, and all things.
26 From one blood He brought forth the whole human race to dwell on all the face of the earth, and He appointed appointed times and limits for their habitation.,
27 that they may seek God, whether they will not feel Him, and whether they will not find Him, though He is not far from each of us:
28 for by Him we live and move and exist, as some of your poets have said, ' We are His kind.'
29 We, therefore, being of the race of God, must not think that the Deity is like gold, or silver, or stone, which has received an image from the art and invention of man.
30 So, leaving the times of ignorance, God now commands all men everywhere to repent.,
31 For he has appointed a day in which he will judge the world justly, by means of a man whom he has ordained, by giving a certificate to all, by raising him from the dead.
32 When some heard of the resurrection of the dead, they scoffed, and others said, " Let us hear about this at another time."
33 So Paul went out from among them.
34 But some of the men who came to him believed; among them was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damar, and others with them.
(Acts II.17:1-34)
--------------------------------------
6 Phrygia and Galatia, having been forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia.
7 When they came to Mysia, they tried to go to Bithynia; but the Spirit would not let them.
8 And when they had passed through Mysia, they went down to Troas.
9 And there was a vision to Paul in the night: a certain man, a Macedonian, appeared, asking him, and saying, Come into Macedonia, and help us.
10 After this vision, we immediately decided to go to Macedonia, concluding that the Lord had called us to preach the gospel there.
11 So we set out from Troas, and came straight to Samothrace, and the next day to Naples.,
12 Thence to Philippi, which is the first city in that part of Macedonia, a colony. We stayed in this city for several days.
13 And on the Sabbath day we went out of the city to the river, where, as usual, there was a house of worship, and we sat down and talked with the women who were gathered there.
14 And a certain woman of the city of Thyatira, whose name was Lydia, who sold scarlet, and worshipped God, listened; and the Lord opened her heart to hear what Paul had said.
15 But when she and her household were baptized, she asked us, saying, " If you have recognized me as faithful to the Lord, then come into my house and live with me." And she convinced us.
(Acts II.16:6-15)
---------------------------

5 And when Silas and Timothy came from Macedonia, Paul was moved by the spirit to testify to the Jews that Jesus was the Christ.
6 But when they resisted and cursed, he shook off his clothes and said to them, " Your blood is on your heads; I am clean; from now on I go to the Gentiles."
7 And he went thence, and came to a certain man who worshipped God, whose name was Justus, whose house was near the synagogue.
8 But Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the Corinthians, hearing, believed and were baptized.
9 But the Lord said to Paul in a vision by night, " Do not be afraid, but speak, and do not be silent.",
10 For I am with you, and no one will harm you, because I have many people in this city.
11 And he remained there a year and six months, teaching them the word of God.
(Acts II.18:5-11)

----------------------------------

 

[Strannik]

I do not understand why you are wanting to hold to that speculation when nothing in the text explains why they were forbidden to go to Asia & suffer them not to go to Bithynia.

Acts 16:6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia, 7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not. 8 And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas. 9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. 10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

So it is best to address your speculation that Paul was a native of Asia Minor or simply Asia at that time for why he was forbidden to go there.

We know Paul was a Roman citizen;

Acts 16:37 But Paul said unto them, They have beaten us openly uncondemned, being Romans, and have cast us into prison; and now do they thrust us out privily? nay verily; but let them come themselves and fetch us out. 38 And the serjeants told these words unto the magistrates: and they feared, when they heard that they were Romans. KJV

We know Paul is of Tarsus which is south central Turkey is today. And since Turkey is south western part of Asia minor; hence Turkey is considered ancient Asia Minor, Paul is only a native to Tarsus.

'Paul was a Greek-speaking Jew from Asia Minor. His birthplace, Tarsus, was a major city in eastern Cilicia, a region that had been made part of the Roman province of Syria by the time of Paul's adulthood."

Where is Tarsus located today?.

Acts 9:11And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth, KJV

Acts 11:25 Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul: 26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch. KJV

Since Paul has founded churches in several parts of Asia Minor since Antioch is in Asia Minor also, per Acts 11:25 which is an event before Acts 16:6-10, then it should be discerned that there were no more seeking Him at this time anywhere in Asia nor in Bithynia, but the people in Macedonia were.

So there were believers in different parts of Asia minor but not in all of Asian Minor and so to say because Paul was a native, as if that was the reason for the Holy Spirit forbid him not to go there is not sound.

But also saying because there were already believers there when obviously church planting was done only in several cities of Asia & not in all of Asia and in the case of Bithynia; "Bithynia (/ bɪˈθɪniə /; Koine Greek: Βιθυνία, Bithynía) was an ancient region, kingdom and Roman province in the northwest of Asia Minor, adjoining the Sea of Marmara, the Bosporus, and the Black Sea., "..... thus a region larger than a city, indicating no church there & neither was any one seeking Him yet at that time, but in Macedonia, there were. Macedonia. is "Ancient Macedonia, in stark contrast to the age of the Greek city-states, was a regional Greek (Macedonian ethnicity, not necesarily Greek) kingdom. It was located north-east of the Greek mainland and northwest of Asia Minor. Macedonians were the Greeks who had to contend with all of the many war-like European tribes."

So Paul's dream was to represent a people seeking Him in the region of Macedonia since Paul & Timothy preached the gospel unto "them" so as to not take the dream literally as if it was one man seeking Him in Paul's dream. And since it was more than one man seeking him in Macedonia, it goes to show how in all of Asia & Bithynia, no one was seeking Him at that time. .

Would that not be rightly dividing the word of truth in that regards?

As we can see, Paul just skipped through Asia to preach according to his vocation in Macedonia.

 

[Hark]

The Holy Spirit redirected Paul in his travels, as He did say stop going your way and now go My way!

No. He did not say it like that.

 

[Hark]

It is sincere for God to Point Out that all are condemned.

All were lost and some of the religiously lost always will be:

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you:
depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:23

Matthew 7:13-27 is directed towards saved believers that have gone astray by an iniquity of broadening the way they approach God the Father by adding the Holy Spirit as another way to approach God the father by & to honor the father that way too when no scripture can support this but scripture does oppose it in John 14:6 & John 5:22-23 It applies towards thinking they can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation by a sign of tongues or other sensational signs in the flesh, ( 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 & Matthew 24:23-26 ) even healings & casting out of devils per Matthew 7:21-23 where many saints fall down in these so called movement of what they assume was the Holy Spirit visiting the worship place ( Matthew 7:24-27 & Matthew 24:23-26 ) in complete hypocrisy that He is in us always in according to our faith ( 2 Corinthians 13:5 & 1 Timothy 4:1-2 & 1 John 4:1-6 )

That said, Him denying them for being in iniquity is not Him saying they are not saved. Titus 1:15-16 cites why He would deny them and that is for being in iniquity. So although saved believers can deny Him for why He would deny them, any saved believer living in unrepentant iniquity will be denied by Him, but even if they became former believers, He still abides per 2 Timothy 2:11-13.

...unless God Makes them Alive, Spiritually.

…20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God?
Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it,
“Why did You make me like this?”

21 Does not the potter have the right
to make from the same lump of clay one vessel
for special occasions and another for common use?

22 What if God, intending to show His wrath
and make His power known,
bore with great patience the vessels of His wrath,
prepared for destruction?…

Compare that reference in the KJV with 2 Timothy 2:18-21 for how those whom are vessels unto dishonor are still in His House and why. Note in 2 timothy 2:18 how Paul addresses one kind of former believers & yet "nevertheless... they are still called to depart from iniquity so they can be received as vessels unto honor to be received as firstfruits at the pre great tribulation rapture event when the Bridegroom comes & not later on after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor for being disqualified and thus reprobate, but still in His House ..

Romans 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, ~ KJV

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. KJV

 

[Hark]

As we can see, Paul just skipped through Asia to preach according to his vocation in Macedonia.

As led by the Holy Spirit to do; not in according to his vocation.

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. KJV

 

[Strannik]

Genesis 8: 21-This does not mean, however, that a sinful person is completely ignorant of good. It is even life itself that tells us that even the evil are good. -----------------
9 Woe and distress to every soul of a man who does evil, first the Jew, then the Greek! 10 On the contrary, glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, first to the Jew, then to the Greek! 11 For there is no face-to-face with God. 12 Those who have sinned without the law are outlaws and will perish; and those who have sinned under the law, the law shall be judged 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: 14 for when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature legitimate, then, having no law, are a law unto themselves: 15 which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, as evidenced by their conscience and their thoughts accusing it, then excuse them) 16 in the day when according to my gospel, God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ. (Rom. 2: 9-16)
++++++++++++++++
---------------------------
And concerning those who were drowned in the waters of the Great Flood Peter said:

17 For if it pleases the will of God, it is better to suffer for good works than for evil ones;
18 For Christ also, in order to bring us to God, once suffered for our sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, being put to death according to the flesh, but quickened by the spirit,
19 by which he also came down and preached to the spirits in prison,
20 They were once disobedient to the longsuffering of God that awaited them, in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved from the water.
(1 Peter 3: 17-20)

5 They will give an answer to Him who has the right to judge the living and the dead.
6 For for this reason it was also preached to the dead, that when they were judged according to man in the flesh, they should live according to God in the spirit.
(1 pet.4:5,6)
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24 for this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found. And they began to have fun.
25 And his eldest son was in the field; and as he returned, when he came near to the house, he heard singing and rejoicing.;
(Luke 15: 24,25)-
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You miss the fact that the prodigal son decided to return to his father.:

17 When he came to himself, he said, " How many of my father's hirelings are full of bread, and I am dying of hunger;
18 I will get up and go to my father and say to him, " Father! I have sinned against heaven and before you
19 And I am no longer worthy to be called your son; accept me as one of your hirelings.
20 He got up and went to his father. And when he was still far away, his father saw him, and had pity on him; and he ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
21 But the son said to him, " Father! I have sinned against heaven and before you, and I am no longer worthy to be called your son.
22 And the father said to his servants, " Bring the best clothes, and put them on him, and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet.";
23 and bring the fatted calf, and kill it; let us eat and be merry.
24 for this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found. And they began to have fun.
(Luke 15: 17-24)

4 God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love, with which He loved us,
5 and made us alive with Christ, who were dead in trespasses - by grace you are saved -
6 and raised us up with him, and set us in heaven in Christ Jesus,
7 That he may manifest in the ages to come the exceeding riches of His grace in his goodness to us in Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not of you, but a gift from God.:
9 not of works, that no one should boast.
(Eph. 2: 4-9)

Again, this passage does not say a word about predestination and that we cannot again come to the loss of salvation ourselves. It actually says that God saves us for nothing. Just out of Your Great Mercy.
==================================================
17 Therefore I say and adjure the LORD, that you no longer do as other nations do, because of the vanity of your mind,
18 Being darkened in your understanding, alienated from the life of God, because of their ignorance and the hardness of their heart.
19 When they came to insensibility, they gave themselves up to debauchery, so that they do all uncleanness with insatiability.
20 But this is not how you came to know Christ;
21 Because you have heard of him, and have learned in him, for the truth is in Jesus,
22 to put aside the former way of life of the old man, who is decaying in the lusts of deceit.,
23 but be renewed by the spirit of your mind
24 and to put on a new man, created according to God, in the righteousness and holiness of the truth.
25 Therefore, rejecting falsehood, speak the truth every man to his neighbor, for we are members of one another.
26 When you are angry, do not sin: let not the sun go down in your anger;
27 and give no place to the devil.
28 Whoever steals, do not steal ahead, but rather work hard, making useful things with your own hands, so that there is something to give to the needy.
29 Let no rotten word come out of your mouth, but only good words for the edification of faith, that it may bring grace to those who hear.
30 And do not offend the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you are sealed on the day of atonement.
31 All anger, and wrath, and wrath, and shouting, and evil-speaking, with all malice, let them be removed from you.;
32 But be kind to one another, compassionate, and forgive one another, just as God in Christ has forgiven you.
(Eph. 4: 17-32)
--------------------------------
Here simply the whole passage calls for the exercise and application of the personal will
===================================
14 Therefore it is said, " Arise, you who sleep, and rise from the dead, and Christ will shine upon you."
15 Therefore, take heed, and walk carefully, not as the foolish, but as the wise.,
16 cherishing the time, for the days are evil.
17 Therefore, do not be foolish, but know what the will of God is.
18 And do not be drunk with wine, which causes debauchery; but be filled with the Spirit,
19 edifying yourselves with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and singing in your hearts to the Lord,
20 Always giving thanks for all things to God and the Father, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,
21 obeying one another in the fear of God.
22 Wives, obey your husbands as the Lord,
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, just as Christ is the head of the church, and He is the Saviour of the body.
24 But as the Church obeys Christ, so do wives obey their husbands in all things.
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for her,
26 to sanctify it by cleansing it with a bath of water by the word;
27 and to present her to Himself a glorious Church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be Holy and without blemish.
28 So husbands should love their wives as they love their bodies: he who loves his wife loves himself.
29 For no one has ever hated his own flesh, but he feeds and warms it, just as the Lord does the Church.,
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh and of his bones.
31 Therefore a man will leave his father and mother, and will cleave to his wife, and the two will be one flesh.
32 This mystery is great; I speak in relation to Christ and to the Church.
33 So let every one of you love his wife as himself; but let the wife fear her husband.
(Eph. 5: 14-33)
---------------------------------------
Here it is also said that, first, the sinner must respond to the call of Christ, by standing up to His call and thereby showing a reciprocal action, implying the presence of will, and then Christians must also show an effort of their will so as not to lose salvation.
11 In Him you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the sinful body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;
12 Being buried with him in baptism, in him you were also raised up by faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.,
13 And he revived you, who were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, together with him, forgiving us all our sins.
14 He destroyed by teaching the handwriting that was against us, which was against us, and he took it from the midst and nailed it to the cross.;
15 Having taken away the strength of the principalities and authorities, He has powerfully put them to shame, and has triumphed over them.
(Col. 2: 11-15)
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And here it is said that we were spiritually raised with Christ in baptism, but there is also the fact that in order to receive baptism, we need to realize it ourselves and wish for it, which again is a manifestation of personal will.
======================================================
Whatever you say, but you have not proved the complete absence of people (even non-believers) of personal will.

 

[Strannik]

As led by the Holy Spirit to do; not in according to his vocation.

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. KJV

So what? How could this prevent God from using the Apostle Paul as an evangelist?

 

[Hark]

So what? How could this prevent God from using the Apostle Paul as an evangelist?

Just going on what is written in Acts 16:6-10 , brother.