Interracial Marriage

[Ransom]

thjplgvp said:

Brother Scott,

Without hijacking the thread I would offer this question to your response. "God's purpose for the races is to reconcile and unite them in Christ:" Why then did God allow the races in the first place?

What's the problem? God allowed for diversity in everything else he created, didn't he? Why would he not give man the inherent capacity for variety as well?

I am simply saying that the races were part of God's plan to delay the end times. Do you think that God created the races or created man?

He created them male and female (Gen. 1:27), not red and yellow, black and white. That is the product of man's own procreation.

If God created man (and he did) then he also knew that when he confounded the languages that race would result and contribute to keeping man from bringing their cognitive imaginations together.

God accomplished his purpose at Babel. Nothing in the Bible suggests that racial intermarriage can or will undo that.

 

[mnw]

It surprised me recently that the Mormons teach that if someone black or dark skinned becomes a Mormon then they will turn white. So if a black Mormon ever comes to the door...

Here is an excerpt from www.carm.org

"The book of Mormon says in 2 Nephi 5:21, "And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, and they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."
3 Nephi 2:15 says, "And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites." This is obviously a reference to skin color.
Until 1981 2 Nephi 30:6 in the Book of Mormon taught that dark-skinned Lamanites (Indians) would eventually experience a change in the color of their skin should they embrace the Book of Mormon. This passage of Mormon scripture read:
"...their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white and a delightsome people."
Brigham Young, the second prophet of the Mormon church said, in 1859, "You may inquire of the intelligent of the world whether they can tell why the aborigines of this country are dark, loathsome, ignorant, and sunken into the depths of degradation ...When the Lord has a people, he makes covenants with them and gives unto them promises: then, if they transgress his law, change his ordinances, and break his covenants he has made with them, he will put a mark upon them, as in the case of the Lamanites and other portions of the house of Israel; but by-and-by they will become a white and delightsome people" (Journal of Discourses 7:336)."

If nothing else it shows that much of the teaching that used to be around concerning black skin being a curse from God actually stemmed from racism. And as someone has pointed out, some still believe it.

Now, I believe some Christians were wrongly influenced and in subsequent generations the position was justified by twisting Scripture. Every generation must be careful about worldly wisdom and philosophy creeping into the church.

 

[Rachel]

mnw, you read my mind. Thanks for posting that. I couldn't remember where I saw that in the mormon book so I didn't post it. But I grew up hearing black people were cursed and they said "it says so in the Bible". But really it was from that book. I didn't know that till I became a Christian. That's one of the first things I looked into.
Crazy.

 

[bapmom]

Im on another board where this is being discussed today as well. A KJVO board, btw, and the consensus is the same as here Im glad to see. There is nothing Biblically wrong with inter-racial marriage. I was also happy to see FilmProducer's post that confirmed my belief that the societal problems are not as bad as they used to be.

 

[mnw]

Those Google Ads are sharp! Since I mentioned the Mormons there are three ads for the LDS/Mormons at the bottom of the page... just checked and all the ads on the page are Mormon related.

Let's see if we can change them to ads about diamond rings, gold, silver, diamonds!

 

[Rippon]

I'm a white guy who has no idea about his racial heritage other than it had to be largely ( or all ) European . When Alex Haley's Roots miniseries was all the rage in the 70's I asked my father what our roots were . He said : " Probably nothing but a bunch of old horse thieves . " No pretense to having blue blood , that's for sure .

 

[thjplgvp]

Scott,

“What's the problem? God allowed for diversity in everything else he created, didn't he? Why would he not give man the inherent capacity for variety as well?”


God did not allow for diversity through those things being different to mate with one another. An Oak will only bear an Oak a pig will only give birth to a pig. When is the last time a black man and black woman gave birth to a white or oriental child? When is the last time a white woman and a white man brought into this world a black or a brown child? It does not happen and the reason it does not happen is because their genes are different.

My original point is that not only were the languages disrupted at Babel but the upsetting/overturning of the gene pool also occurred and this is what created the races.

There is no mention of race or nation until after the fall. At Babel when God called Abraham to separate himself from the Ur Chaldea and Abram was to bring out his family only God told him I will make a nation of thee an ethnic race hence the Jewish nation came into being after the tower fell.
Look now to the history of Babylon every nation they conquered they transplanted people from other cultures, languages and races in order to blend those conquered nations into one people. The more intermarriage occurred the less a people retained their individual nationality and the easier to unite people under one cause hence the end times comes back into play because when the final leader comes on the scene he will rule all people as one people. God told the Jews not to intermarry (race or religion) interestingly Israel is the subject in the end times. But he told the believer only to marry in the Lord excluding paganism and false religions only.

I never said intermarriage was or is wrong but I do say that it among many other things will hasten the end times.

 

[mnw]

Actually, there have been times when children have dramatically differed from their parents skin colour/features. I do not know the exact reasons. Terms like latent genes come to mind, but it is not quite my field. But I do know of instances where, as I said, children have been very different to their parents.

Not being difficult, just wanted to bring this out.

 

[thjplgvp]

thanks MNW.

In all honesty I would consider those mutations (not that they are less than). And I am not a scientist, bio chemist or those other things either. But I can reason (sometimes) :smilewinkgrin: and I don't believe that in God's scheme of life race can be attributed to happenstance. And I doubt this thread will be the end of this type of discussion at least I hope not. :laugh: :laugh:

 

[Ransom]

thjplgvp said:

God did not allow for diversity through those things being different to mate with one another. An Oak will only bear an Oak a pig will only give birth to a pig. When is the last time a black man and black woman gave birth to a white or oriental child?

Sorry, but your argument just flopped because of a major categorical error.

A pig and a dog cannot mate and produce a pig-dog hybrid, but two different varieties of pig or dog will bear offspring that shares characteristics of both its parents.

A black man and a white woman are not like a pig and a dog. They are both members of Homo sapiens, being children of Adam, and their offspring will be fully Homo sapiens as well.

My original point is that not only were the languages disrupted at Babel but the upsetting/overturning of the gene pool also occurred and this is what created the races.

The gene pool wasn't "upset." Every distinct pocket of humanity had the same 46 human chromosomes. There was never any biological barrier to intermarriage.

There is no mention of race or nation until after the fall.

That's because before the fall, there were only Adam and Eve.

And that's about as much time as I care to waste on your ignorance.

I never said intermarriage was or is wrong but I do say that it among many other things will hasten the end times.

*snigger* Whatever.

 

[thjplgvp]

How about instead of fall I use flood, sorry for the mistake, snicker indeed. I have tried to be civil but at least one of us does not wish to. My response is ended.

 

[Ransom]

How about instead of fall I use flood, sorry for the mistake

Same problem. The Bible doesn't mention race because prior to the flood it only concerns itself with a single family line. You're arguing from silence.

 

[bapmom]

thjpglv,

a caucasian's genes are no more different from a black person's genes than mine are different from any other white person who I am not closely related to.
Families have familial characteristics. Italians tend to have an olive complexion and dark hair. Irish might be more prone to red hair, and Swedes usually have blonde hair. It's family characteristics. It's not a racial difference.

BTW, there are times when family characteristics that are dormant crop up in later generations. There are cases where 2 white folk have given birth to a black child......because in their background the gene for darker skin existed. How about a "black" person who's skin is so light they can pass for Caucasian? It is NOT like a pig and a dog, because those are not of the same "race". Humans are all one race.

 

[mnw]

The genes are the same but there are stereotypes of white guys wearing cowboy style and black guys using the more rapper like style of letting them hang down...

Sorry, wrong genes...

 

[John of Japan]

The genes are the same but there are stereotypes of white guys wearing cowboy style and black guys using the more rapper like style of letting them hang down...

Sorry, wrong genes...

:laugh: :laugh:

 

[faithgirl46]

I don't see interracial maraiagesas wrong. My faither, on the other hand does. Like I told him at least it is a marriage between a man and a woman.
Faithgirl

 

[eyeball]

It is interesting to note the number of responses which follow this pattern:

"Interracial marriage is not Biblically wrong, though it is doubtful I would practice it myself, nor would I recommend it to my children, for [logistical, social, children's sake] reasons."

Interesting, indeed.

 

[Filmproducer]

Sorry Faithgirl, maybe I am nitpicking, but "at least" nothing. Those in interracial relationships are not second class citizens. There is nothing innately wrong with our marriages. Any social or cultural stigmas we may feel, do not come from the majority of people, they come from close-minded, ridiculous people. If your father, or anyone else, for that matter, does not like it, oh well they can get over themselves. I did not get married to please anyone, but myself, my husband, and God. I am not forcing my marriage on anyone, but I will not live in a bubble to protect the sensitivities of bigots. Let them isolate themselves, or be uncomfortable in my presence.

 

[faithgirl46]

Sorry Faithgirl, maybe I am nitpicking, but "at least" nothing. Those in interracial relationships are not second class citizens. There is nothing innately wrong with our marriages. Any social or cultural stigmas we may feel, do not come from the majority of people, they come from close-minded, ridiculous people. If your father, or anyone else, for that matter, does not like it, oh well they can get over themselves. I did not get married to please anyone, but myself, my husband, and God. I am not forcing my marriage on anyone, but I will not live in a bubble to protect the sensitivities of bigots. Let them isolate themselves, or be uncomfortable in my presence.

I didn't say that I thought people in interracial marriages were second cclass citizens. Where did you get that from?
Faithgirl46

 

[faithgirl46]

I also said that my dad doesn't approve of interraicial marriages. I also said that I told him at least it is a marraiage between a man and a woman. In other words I was telling dad that these are marriages that God does not frown on.
Faithgirl