Is alcohol a sin?

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Alexandra Spears:
I stopped drinking it when my husband and I were trying to conceive a child.

Ironically, alcohol leads to a lot of children being conceived.

 

[RaptureReady]

Originally posted by Baptist Believer:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by HomeBound:
To answer your original question, yes it is SIN!

Then Jesus is a sinner and we have no hope. </font>[/QUOTE]Since Jesus did not drink any alcoholic liquids, He did not SIN, so hope still remains in Him.

 

[RaptureReady]

Originally posted by Mike McK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Alexandra Spears:
I stopped drinking it when my husband and I were trying to conceive a child.

Ironically, alcohol leads to a lot of children being conceived. </font>[/QUOTE]True, mostly out of wedlock. I wonder if that would be an appearance of evil?

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

Originally posted by HomeBound:
Since Jesus did not drink any alcoholic liquids, He did not SIN, so hope still remains in Him.

I am curious as to how you have deduced that Jesus did not drink. How can you make this statement?

 

[RaptureReady]

Originally posted by Baptist in Richmond:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by HomeBound:
Since Jesus did not drink any alcoholic liquids, He did not SIN, so hope still remains in Him.

I am curious as to how you have deduced that Jesus did not drink. How can you make this statement? </font>[/QUOTE]First, alcohol is nothing but a trouble maker.

Second, wine in the Bible refers to "fermented" and "unfermented" grape juice, aka wine.

Third, it would not be the character of Jesus to give nor drink this SIN.

Fourth,

To retort: NO, it is NOT a sin.
Consider the first miracle: water into wine. The water was not merely turned into wine, it was the very best wine. I too have read the claim that the wine was in fact grape juice. I have yet to attend a Jewish wedding where "grape juice" has been served, and I have been to several.

The wine in canal was grapejuice and just because you have not been to a Jewish wedding were they did not serve alcohol does not mean that the wine at canal was fermented.

 

[Baptist Believer]

 

[Alexandra Spears]

Well you know what...if you think drinking is a sin and you do it you're sinning.

For the record, my husband and I had been married for 8 years when our son was born....

 

[Ulsterman]

If Jesus turned the water into alcoholic wine, then it stands to reason that when the text says they were "well drunk" it should mean just that, that is, they were intoxicated. Now Christ allegedly contributes to their drunken state further, thus becoming a partaker in other men's sins, and raising the condemnation of Habakkuk 2:15 "Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!" (Habakkuk 2:15). Therefore His Messianic credentials are in question.

I think you had better think twice before indicting the Saviour with this one.

 

[KrispyKritter]

No alcohol purchases on Sunday is about as absurd as a "dry" county. We live in a dry county and we have the alcoholics to proove it. From our house if I drive 5 miles north to Food Lion I can not buy alcohol... if I drive 5 miles south to Food Lion in the next county, I can. I've probably had two beers in the last 12 months, so it's not like I really care... I just cant stand laws that make no sense.

 

[RaptureReady]

Originally posted by Baptist Believer:
Jesus drank (alcoholic) wine and it was certainly not sinful. He said it Himself:

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber...'"

Jesus enjoyed food (eating) and they falsely called Him a glutton (one who eats to excess). Jesus enjoyed wine (or some other alcoholic beverage) and they falsely called Him a drunkard (one who drinks to excess).

Here the key word is "they." "They" said. Who are "they?" "They" are the Pharisees and Sadducees. The same people that in Matthew 3:7 Jesus called "vipers." "They" would have said anything toward Jesus, just like they did against John, saying he hath a devil. Jesus may have came eating and drinking, but drinking was NOT an alcoholic drink.

His words make no sense if the wine of his day is not alcoholic. If you drink grape juice to excess, you simply get too many calories in your system. Drunkeness is caused by the alcoholic content.

True, but Jesus never drunk so therefore, he never got drunk.

Do you condemn Jesus for His proper use of alcohol? If so, then He is not your Lord. If not, then why condemn your brothers and sisters? You have no right to declare something sinful that the Bible does not declare sinful.

I have presented this information to you on at least two other occasions. Why do you reject the clear teaching of scripture?

and you have no right to call Jesus an gluttonous drunkard. One question, if alcohol were to be banned, would that cause more deaths or fewer deaths?

 

[BrianT]

Yes, the Bible does say a lot of negative things about drinking. All of these negatives are in the context of *abuse*.

The Bible also says a lot of *postive* things, if it is *not* abused. Here's just a few:

- Isa 25:6 says the LORD himself will give a feast that includes wine.
- In Gen 14, the priest Melchizedek (a 'type' of Christ according to the NT) gave Moses bread and wine.
- Deut 14 says if the Israelites differentiate between clean and unclean animals (v2-31), tithe (v22) and live obediently (v23), they may spend their money on livestock, wine and strong drink, and eat and drink and rejoice before the LORD.
- Psalm 104:14-15 says God causes grass to grow for cattle, causes plants to grow for man, and that God gives man wine to make man's heart glad, and oil for his face, and bread to sustain him.
- Ecc 9:7 says the righteous can "Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works."
- Judges 9:13 says wine brings cheer to both man *and God*.
- Isa 55:1 compares God's mercy to free water, milk and wine.
- 1 Chr 12:40 and 2 Chr 31:5 includes wine in the list of abundance and joyful things for Israel
- Amos 9:13-15 prophesies about restoring Israel, when then can rebuild their cities and plant vineyards and drink wine.
- Deut 28 talks about God removing good things because of disobedience. The list of good things includes wine (v39)
- Song of Songs 5:1 talks of drinking wine as a celebration of love.
- Gen 27:28 speaks a blessing from God of dew from heaven, fatness from the earth, and an abundance of grain and wine.
- Deut 7:13 speaks of a blessing from God of children, grain and wine.
- Deut 11:14 speaks of a blessing from God of grain and wine and oil.
- Prov 3:9-10 says if we give to God, he will give to us, overflowing us with grain and wine.

If wine is so evil, how do you explain all these (and similar) verses? Or do you just ignore them? Clearly, if one is to consider ALL the passages on wine, you'll see that it is the *abuse* of wine that is condemned. When used in a non-abusive way, not only is wine "allowed", it is a blessing from God. Why are some many here trying to rob others of a blessing? Why are so many here trying to avoid plain scriptures?

Let scripture speak for itself. God gave wine. Don't abuse it. Simple.

 

[timothy 1769]

is there any scriptural support for the idea of multiple kinds of wine (some non-alcoholic?)

 

[RaptureReady]

Here's a good website for not drinking.

http://www.touchet1611.org/Wine.html

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by HomeBound:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Baptist Believer:
Jesus drank (alcoholic) wine and it was certainly not sinful. He said it Himself:

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber...'"

Jesus enjoyed food (eating) and they falsely called Him a glutton (one who eats to excess). Jesus enjoyed wine (or some other alcoholic beverage) and they falsely called Him a drunkard (one who drinks to excess).

Here the key word is "they." </font>[/QUOTE]No. It is not the key word – it is one of the key words. It is improper to isolate one part of a statement from its context.

"They" said. Who are "they?" "They" are the Pharisees and Sadducees. The same people that in Matthew 3:7 Jesus called "vipers."

Yes. They opposed Jesus and accused him of abusing food and alcohol.

"They" would have said anything toward Jesus, just like they did against John, saying he hath a devil.

No. The accusers of Jesus took elements of truth and wove lies around it. For instance, John the baptizer was a very unusual man, who had an unusual diet, living alone in the wilderness. John (like many of the Old Testament prophets) came across as someone who seemed a little mentally unbalanced because of his message and his manner. His accusers noted his unusual manner and began to falsely claim he was demonized because that was a lie that some might believe.

The accusers of Jesus noted His enjoyment of food and wine and began to circulate stories that He abused both (a glutton and a winebibber).

Jesus may have came eating and drinking, but drinking was NOT an alcoholic drink.

You have presenting nothing to substantiate your claim. I have shown you scripture. The clear meaning of Jesus’ comparison (eating--&gt;glutton / drinking--&gt;drunkard) demonstrates that Jesus clearly states He drank alcoholic beverages.

But if you won’t believe Jesus, I guess I shouldn’t be surprised if you don’t believe me.

His words make no sense if the wine of his day is not alcoholic. If you drink grape juice to excess, you simply get too many calories in your system. Drunkeness is caused by the alcoholic content.

True, but Jesus never drunk so therefore, he never got drunk. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Repeating it over and over doesn’t make it so.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Do you condemn Jesus for His proper use of alcohol? If so, then He is not your Lord. If not, then why condemn your brothers and sisters? You have no right to declare something sinful that the Bible does not declare sinful.

I have presented this information to you on at least two other occasions. Why do you reject the clear teaching of scripture?

and you have no right to call Jesus an gluttonous drunkard. </font>[/QUOTE]I have not. And if you are suggesting I have then you need to repent of your lies immediately!

I realize that accepting what the scripture says about Jesus drinking alcoholic beverages might seem like a rejection of your religious heritage. Unfortunately, sometimes our religious heritage has some errors and man-made additions to it that must be rejected so that we can embrace God’s truth.

One question, if alcohol were to be banned, would that cause more deaths or fewer deaths?

Probably about the same. Those who want to abuse alcohol would find a way to do it and those who have previously used alcohol responsibly would likely obey the law. Furthermore, those who had previously obtained health benefits from their proper use of alcohol would be less healthy and would likely die at a higher rate.

But this is a false argument. If we eliminated automobiles, fewer people would die in traffic accidents – but that doesn’t mean that automobiles are sinful.

 

[RaptureReady]

Since you believe drinking is okay, take you a beer and a tract, go up to someone and say here, let me share the truth with you about Jesus and see what reaction you get. You may be amazed that a lost person knows more than you do about drinking.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by HomeBound:
Since you believe drinking is okay, take you a beer and a tract, go up to someone and say here, let me share the truth with you about Jesus and see what reaction you get.

I can’t stand the taste/smell of beer, so I won’t drink it. Also, I don’t often use tracts, so I doubt I’d take one. But yes, I’ve sat down with people over the past few years and talked to them about spiritual things over a glass of wine.

Every time I have shared about Christ in those circumstances – relaxed and on comfortable terms – I have received a positive reception.

You may be amazed that a lost person knows more than you do about drinking.

Many lost people drink in order to get drunk. Many other lost people drink responsibly – in moderation – and avoid getting drunk. Many lost people do not drink at all.

Lots of people know more than I do about drinking. But fortunately I know what the Bible says about it and have made it my guide to life.

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

Originally posted by HomeBound:
&gt;&gt;The wine in canal was grapejuice and just because you have
&gt;&gt;not been to a Jewish wedding were they did not serve alcohol
&gt;&gt;does not mean that the wine at canal was fermented.

First of all, I find it amazing that you state with absolute certainty that the wine was actually "grapejuice." [sic]
This Miracle is found in John 2. It makes no sense whatsoever that the "Governor of the Feast" (verse 9) was upset that the best "grapejuice" was saved for last.
By the way, I showed this discussion to a Jewish friend of mine, and he would like to know, since you are seemingly holding yourself out as a scholar on Judaica, when exactly did the custom change from "grapejuice" to wine? He too has never heard of serving "grapejuice" at a Jewish wedding, and he has been to even more than I have. Additionally, he is going to check with his grandmother to see if she has ever heard of this custom.....

Did you see the movie/play Fiddler on the Roof? At Tzeitel's wedding, are they dancing with bottle of "grapejuice" on their heads?

 

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by HomeBound:
Since you believe drinking is okay, take you a beer and a tract, go up to someone and say here, let me share the truth with you about Jesus and see what reaction you get. You may be amazed that a lost person knows more than you do about drinking.

What a minute... the response that you would get from an unbeliever in this instance would be based upon their pre-conception (and misconception) of what a Christian is. Not on their Biblical knowledge. I submit to you that most unbelievers have a hard time understanding why a Christian would totally abstain from alcohol. The argument you're trying to present by this statement is weak... to say the least.

If we use your logic, then we should go out of our way to be exactly like what unbelievers think we are in order to witness to them... judgemental, hateful, sour faced, wearing a starch white shirt and a tie...

[ July 16, 2003, 01:01 PM: Message edited by: KrispyKritter ]

 

[RaptureReady]

Originally posted by Baptist Believer:
I can’t stand the taste/smell of beer, so I won’t drink it. Also, I don’t often use tracts, so I doubt I’d take one. But yes, I’ve sat down with people over the past few years and talked to them about spiritual things over a glass of wine.

So it is okay to drink ONLY wine? Why not share a tract, we are commanded to go out and spread the Gospel?

 

[KrispyKritter]

Why not share a tract, we are commanded to go out and spread the Gospel? [/QB]

Tracts arent nearly as effective as people think they are. Why not try talking to people, getting to know them... and letting them see and hear you live out your walk with God?