Is alcohol a sin?

[RaptureReady]

Originally posted by Baptist in Richmond:
First of all, I find it amazing that you state with absolute certainty that the wine was actually "grapejuice." [sic]

The reason I state with absolute certainty is because Jesus would never give his neighbour a drink of an alcoholic beverage.

Also, just because your friend and their grandmother and their great, great, great, great grandmother has never seen a Jewish non-alcoholic wedding does not mean that it has never happened.

Drinking does nothing but please the flesh. Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Do you please the flesh more than God?

 

[RaptureReady]

Originally posted by KrispyKritter:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Why not share a tract, we are commanded to go out and spread the Gospel?

Tracts arent nearly as effective as people think they are. Why not try talking to people, getting to know them... and letting them see and hear you live out your walk with God? [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Getting to know them personally may be better than just giving them a tract and leaving, but, God's word will never return void.

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by HomeBound:
The reason I state with absolute certainty is because Jesus would never give his neighbour a drink of an alcoholic beverage.

Since you were not present, your certainty cannot be absolute.

Scripture says "wine". Words have meaning. It amazes me that "Bible believers" give new meanings to words so they can change what the Bible says. If "wine" doesn't really mean wine, maybe "rose from the dead" doesn't really mean rose from the dead, eh?

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by HomeBound:
Since Jesus did not drink any alcoholic liquids, He did not SIN, so hope still remains in Him.

Not only did Jesus drink wine with everyone at the Last Supper, but he would have done so at every Sabbath and Passover meal. Bread and Wine were and still are a staple of every Sabbath and Passover meal. Had Jesus abstained from either at one of these meals, this would have been a significant event, and would have been recorded in the Gospels.

 

[BrianT]

One comment about when the Pharisees called Christ a "winebibber" (given to much drinking of wine), carefully consider Christ's response: he points out the Pharisees' hypocrisy by contrasting with their comments about John the Baptist. John *didn't* drink (Matt 11:18), and the opposed him for that. Christ *did*, and the opposed him for that. If *both* John and Christ didn't drink, Jesus' response to them makes no sense, and his point is empty and worthless.

 

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by HomeBound:

Originally posted by Baptist in Richmond:
Drinking does nothing but please the flesh.

This is weak logic as well... If my wife and I are not trying to conceive a child, then sex is pleasure of the flesh.

 

[Jim1999]

The thinking in the 40's and 50's was the notion that wine was non-alcoholic. This thinking has long gone, and it is common knowledge that all wine, including biblical wine, contained alcohol.

When wine is mentioned in the scriptures, it must also be noted that the good and evil affects of wine is mentioned in the same context. Paul tells Timothy to take some wine for his stomach's sake,,,,in the same letter, Paul warns about the evil affects of excessive wine. He also talks about abstention for the weaker brother's sake.

All things are lawful, but not all things are expedient is a good rule to follow in this matter of drinking alcohol. It is easy to pick out all the verses that make imbibing legal, but let's not forget the warnings that go along with it.

Do we need alcoholic beverages? Certainly one can drink them and enjoy them, and never a barrier come between them and the Lord. Try praying during devotionals with a glass of wine in one hand, the Bible in the other, and see where it takes you. I say the same with tobacco in mind or even eating a dinner, whilst praying and having devotionals. Please don't apply this to sex and other ridiculous avenues. I am talking about addressing God and contemplating one's spiritual atmosphere.

I abstain, for reasons I have before mentioned. I do not make it a law. If another believer was enjoying a glass of beer during conversation, it would not trouble me, but it is not for me.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[KrispyKritter]

I dont think applying the other poster's logic about pleasures of the flesh to sex was too far of a stretch... sorry if I made you blush.

I dont think it was "rediculous", as you put it, Jimbo.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by HomeBound:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Baptist Believer:
I can’t stand the taste/smell of beer, so I won’t drink it. Also, I don’t often use tracts, so I doubt I’d take one. But yes, I’ve sat down with people over the past few years and talked to them about spiritual things over a glass of wine.

So it is okay to drink ONLY wine? </font>[/QUOTE]

No. Seems like you’re intentionally trying to put words in my mouth…

I said that I don’t care for beer. Fortunately for everyone, I don’t try to impose my personal preferences on everyone else like you seem to allege.

Why not share a tract, we are commanded to go out and spread the Gospel?

I don’t recall the New Testament teaching that requires us to use tracts.

If I leave printed material with someone else, it is usually my name and phone number and a Bible.

 

[RaptureReady]

Originally posted by Baptist Believer:
No. Seems like you’re intentionally trying to put words in my mouth…

No, I was trying to see if wine is acceptable and all other alcoholic drinks are not. So is having a couple of shots of wiskey okay?

I don’t recall the New Testament teaching that requires us to use tracts.

So, are you saying tracts is a bad ideal?

If I leave printed material with someone else, it is usually my name and phone number and a Bible.

Sounds good to me.

 

[RaptureReady]

Originally posted by KrispyKritter:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by HomeBound:

Originally posted by Baptist in Richmond:
Drinking does nothing but please the flesh.

This is weak logic as well... If my wife and I are not trying to conceive a child, then sex is pleasure of the flesh. </font>

Marriage and sex is honorable in the site of God, drinking is not.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by HomeBound:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Baptist Believer:
No. Seems like you’re intentionally trying to put words in my mouth

No, I was trying to see if wine is acceptable and all other alcoholic drinks are not. So is having a couple of shots of wiskey okay? </font>[/QUOTE]Drinking alcoholic beverages in moderation is acceptable for a believer unless they are under the conviction that it is not appropriate for them.

A couple of shots of whiskey, if consumed within a short period of time, would likely lead to intoxication. One shot of whiskey probably would not. A person would need to take into account their weight, whether they are eating while consuming alcohol and a number of other factors. Drinking in moderation requires responsibility.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />I don’t recall the New Testament teaching that requires us to use tracts.

So, are you saying tracts is a bad ideal? </font>[/QUOTE]No. But I certainly prefer a more relational approach to evangelism.

Also, most tracts seem to promote a quick transactional sort of Christian “faith” that does not stress the call of Christ to follow Him in discipleship. I prefer to leave a person with a more complete message of the gospel.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />If I leave printed material with someone else, it is usually my name and phone number and a Bible.

Sounds good to me. </font>[/QUOTE]I’m glad we agree on something!

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by HomeBound:
Marriage and sex is honorable in the site of God, drinking is not.

Sex is honorable if not abused, and done within certain limits. Wine is the same. Both are a blessing from God, if used properly. Used improperly, both can be sinful and destructive. See all the verses at the top of page 3 of this thread.

 

[RaptureReady]

I see that you have your interpretation and I have mine of the way "wine" is used in the Bible. One of us is correct and the other is wrong. This is my end statement. I believe that the Bible teaches that "wine" has different meanings and using the context shows this. I believe that the character of Jesus would not allow such a thing. I believe the Bible tells us to abstain from the appearance of evil and I believe that all/any alcholic drink is evil.

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by HomeBound:
I believe that the character of Jesus would not allow such a thing.

Do you know what a circular argument is?

I believe the Bible tells us to abstain from the appearance of evil

Jesus appeared evil to the Pharisees. They even called him a winebibber.

and I believe that all/any alcholic drink is evil.

Then why did God give it as a blessing? Does God give evil gifts?

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

Originally posted by HomeBound:
&gt;&gt;The reason I state with absolute certainty is because Jesus
&gt;&gt;would never give his neighbour a drink of an alcoholic beverage.

Oops, there goes credibility......
Kindly provide the Scriptural proof to justify this statement. If you can state this "with absolute certainty," then it shouldn't be that hard.

&gt;&gt;Also, just because your friend and their grandmother and their
&gt;&gt;great, great, great, great grandmother has never seen a Jewish
&gt;&gt;non-alcoholic wedding does not mean that it has never happened.

Response from my friend:
"This is the actual response you received??!! It is obvious to me that this person doesn't know anything about Judaism. Tell them to answer the question."

&gt;&gt;Drinking does nothing but please the flesh.

Legalism, pure and simple.
I suppose that the Apostle Paul was wrong.

Using your logic, I hope you don't enjoy any hobbies, sports, etc.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by HomeBound:
So is having a couple of shots of wiskey okay?

Good point. If we stick to the legalist view that the Bible forbids wine, there's nothing in scripture that forbids other alcoholic beverages, such as beer. In these cases, the bible only forbids drunkenness. Which brings us back to square one.

 

[John Wells]

Is alcohol a sin? - NO!
Is the regular us of it wise? - In my opinion, NO
Should we judge those who use it moderately? - NO

 

[Jesus Fish]

(timothy 1769)
is there any scriptural support for the idea of multiple kinds of wine (some non-alcoholic?)

(Fish)
Yes, there is. But realize that the different kinds of wine actually had different words to describe each of them. We don't have too many words for the different products that come from the grape because our culture doesn't rely on the grape as much as Isreal's did. There are 9 Hebrew words that are translated "wine" in the O.T. There are 2 Greek words, if I remember correctly, in the N.T. I looked up "wine" on dictionary.com and it actually gives the definitions of the 9 Hebrew words. They are towards the middle of the page. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=wine That should help quite a bit.

Also, realize that even what is referred to as "new wine" is still alcoholic. Many claim that new wine is like only days old and not alcoholic, but it is actually wine that has been pressed within a certain amount of time, up to like 8 months i think (don't quote me on that, just trying to remember what i read a while back). Hosea 4:11 says something to the effect of "harlotry and new wine take away the heart." New wine can also intoxicate.

 

[Missionary Wife and Mom]

I can't believe that I'm on the "Fundamental Baptist Forum" Aparently there aren't any here.

This is the very problem with Christians today, wanting to walk so close with the world. What kind of testimony are you to the lost alcoholic who sees you buying that wine cooler and then remebers you telling him about Jesus. YOur no better than him and your testimony has been marred. If we as Christians could all give us there sins of ours, boy what God could do with us.
Think of this, we use "wine" in the Lord supper and many use alcoholic juice. What does this say about the blood of Christ. To get alcoholic juice from pure new juice it has to furment and in essence rot! The blood of Christ is pure not rotten.
Also as the temple of the Holy Spirit, we should in all way strive to be holy and different. Until we seperate ourselves and give God all the "little sins" we harbor, we will be usless for Christ and a beaten Christian with out any victory.
by the way with what kind of people and where do you go to buy this booze?
What bad advice new Christians and young Christians in the Lord are getting on this board.