Eric B
I am back. I apologize for taking all this time. This is one of two parts (I hope) in response to the issues you raised.
THE SIGN OF JONAH
Eric, the issue here is not “simply the three days.” Where is the sign in the notion that it is simply the three days?
The Jews asked for a sign, i.e. a miracle, a thing out of the ordinary. And so if the sign of Jonah was that he remained ALIVE against all odds (a fact agreed to by Jews, Christians, and Muslims) then to be as Jonah was, the son of man had to be ALIVE too, just as Jonah was.
Where is the sign in the three days argument you presented? How can the burial be a sign? If you bury someone for one day, or two days, or a million days then this is no sign, Eric. The sign (miracle) is that if you do something as was done to Jonah you expect him to die. Now, if he stays alive, then it is a miracle!
When you throw someone into a raging sea, you expect him to die. If he stays alive, then it is a miracle! If a whale bites (the man left and right) and begins to swallow the man in that same raging sea, you expect him to drawn, be crushed and get killed. If he stays alive, it is yet another miracle! If he stays for three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, you expect him to suffocate and die. If he lives and cries to his God and prays IN SIDE the belly of the whale it is yet another miracle! It is a miracle of miracles! Many times over!
And so staying ALIVE against all odds is the SIGN, Eric. If you hang someone and he dies, then there is no miracle! If you bury him and he dies, it is no miracle! Whether the time is one day or a million days. If he dies (for any number of days) then it is no miracle! However, if he stays ALIVE against all odds, then and only then it becomes a miracle. One like that of prophet Jonah PBUH.
And so, for the son of man to be AS JONAH WAS, he had then to have been ALIVE, just AS JONAH WAS! This is your own language Eric. Christians say that Jesus was as Jonah was NOT! But by believing so they are at odds with the Christ of God! After all these are the words of Christ PBUH. Christians are following some other Christ, Eric, not the biblical Christ PBUH.
WHAT IS A RESURRECTED ENTITY
Ask any language group on this earth: what is a resurrected entity, and they will almost all invariably tell you
a spirit. You know spirits, no? These things you cannot touch, pocket, or feel.
PAUL
(St.) Paul, who never saw Jesus PBUH in the flesh, and who many Muslims blame for all that is upon us now, says concerning the resurrected of Jesus PBUH: "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption;
it is raised in incorruption." (1 Corinthians: 15:42).
He continues: "It is sown a natural body;
it is raised a spiritual body.
There is a natural body, and there is
a spiritual body." (1 Corinthians: 15:44).
And so indeed, even Paul admits that the resurrected are SPIRITS! And he was confirming what Jesus PBUH said concerning the resurrected.
JESUS' DEFINITION OF THE RESURRECTED
You see the learned men of the Jews came to him (Jesus PBUH) once with this riddle (like they used to quite often) and asked about this women who had seven husbands. According to a Jewish custom, a brother of a man who dies and leaves a wife with no children must marry his dead brother's wife. If the second brother dies, the third brother marries her, and the fourth and the fifth, and the sixth, and the seventh. This woman had seven husbands. But since she had her husbands one at the time here, it was no problem. But what happens when all of the brothers and the wife are resurrected simultaneously. Surely if they all want her back they would then fight over her in the Hereafter and there will be war. So what happens? The learned men of Jews asked Jesus.
Jesus replied:
"Neither can they die any more:" (Luke 20:36) Meaning that whatever caused death on earth can't cause death to the resurrected. Lack of food, sex, deadly blows, another hanging on the cross, you name it- nothing will cause another death to the resurrected.
One is resurrected only once. Not only that, but Jesus PBUH continues: "
for they (the resurrected bodies)
are equal unto the angles." Meaning that they will be angelized, i.e.
SPIRITS.
Please note how Christ PBUH says Resurrected = Angles. Indeed if you are unsure what an angel is made of please read:
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104 003 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
104 004
Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
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(Psalms)
Having known what a resurrected entity is (only a spirit, a ghost, or a spook), we must then examine if Jesus Christ PBUH took that form and then decide if he indeed died for anybody's sin and was resurrected shortly thereafter or not.
WHAT DOES "CRUCIFY" MEAN?
Perhaps it is worth noting that "to Crucify" means to kill by means of hanging or impaling on the cross. Do look it up in the dictionary.
And so if a Timothy was hanged on the cross and is brought down a while later still alive walking around and smoking cigarettes, then he was not technically speaking crucified. He was hanged on the cross, yes. But you see because that hanging didn't cause him to die, one cannot say that he was crucified and be telling the truth.
If years later this Timothy dies of Cancer, one cannot say he was crucified (even when he actually was hanged [fastened] onto the cross)-- rather one should say Timothy died of Cancer as this was the cause of his death, not the hanging on the cross.
The deficiency is in the English language which is unable to differentiate between [1] hanging (fastening) on the cross, and [2] dying on the cross.
JESUS WAS NOT CRUCIFIED!
Armed with this definition of the Crucifixion, one must state that if the hanging on the cross didn't cause the death of Jesus, then Jesus was not crucified. The Qur'an and amazingly enough the Bible testify to that-- that Jesus wasn't crucified (i.e. caused to die on the cross).
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"And their saying in boast : Surely we have killed the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so and most surely those who differ therein are full of doubts; they have no knowledge respecting it,
but only follow conjecture, and they surely killed him not."
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(Translation, Holy Qur'an, 4:157).
This is a bold statement that can only come from one who knows the facts, someone like Almighty God. But let's not stop here. Let's study this matter in the Bible.
THEY FORSOOK HIM AND FLED
In the Bible, you will read that at the most crucial juncture of the life of Jesus ALL his disciples forsook him and fled. ALL of them. Read (Mark 14:50) "And they all forsook him, and fled."
So the Bible reports Jesus is hanged on the cross; this is what people were talking about. This is what the disciples had heard from heresy, because they had
"ALL FORSOOK HIM AND FLED."(Mark 14:50) (Emphasis added). Likewise, they had heard from heresy that Jesus had given up the ghost on the cross. This is what people were talking about. This is what the absent disciples assumed then to be the sad end to their Rabbi.
Proof of that is evident in their terror when Jesus goes to the upper room after his alleged crucifixion and resurrection, when he says to them " Peace be unto you." (Luke 24:36). [This is the official Muslim greeting by the way!].
Instead of going to kiss and hug their Rabbi, "they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen
a spirit." (Luke 24:37).
Why were they terrified? They were so because
they thought they had seen a SPIRIT. After all they
had heard (as opposed to witnessed) that Jesus had given up the ghost on the cross.
But did they?
Did they see a spirit?
A SPIRIT HATH NOT FLESH AND BONES!
Listen to Jesus, peace be upon the prophet of God, speaking after his alleged crucifixion and resurrection (when he ought to have been a spirit!):
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"And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
"Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see;
for a S-P-I-R-I-T hath not F-L-E-S-H and B-O-N-E-S, as ye S-E-E me H-A-V-E."
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(Luke 24:38-39) (Emphasis is mine)
Jesus' PBUH answer is an EMPHATIC NO! The Christ of God says that he WAS NO SPIRIT, i.e., not resurrected (and thus was not crucified!), and this according to Jesus' PBUH OWN definition of the resurrected, Eric!
Here feel me, Jesus says: I have F-L-E-S-H and B-O-N-E-S! I'm still
A-L-I-V-E!!!
Jesus IS DENYING that he was a SPIRIT!Can you believe it? Christ EXPLICITLY ASSERTS that he was of FLESH AND BONES--
a form which no resurrected entity (spirit) ought to have.
Jesus is refuting his own resurrection! In the first person, mind you. Must I remind you that a resurrected entity in Jesus' own words is "equal unto the angels." (Luke 20:36), i.e., spirit, spook, ghost!
And Jesus does not stop there. Seeking to assure his disciples further, Jesus says: "Have ye here any meat?" (Luke 24:41) Meaning something to eat.
"And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
"And he took it, and did eat before them." (Luke 24:42-43).
Why did Jesus make this demonstration? Was he doing an act of drama? Of course not;
he was underlining his need for nourishment. Only living humans (not resurrected spiritual bodies) need food to stay alive.
More proof of this can be found in the Bible. You read how Jesus (PBUH) does not come out in the open after that, how he is ever in hiding. Why? He is worried that he will be caught, that's why! Surely a spiritualized entity must not worry about that!
So here is your proof that Jesus didn't die for anyone's sins, that he was not resurrected. Proof that Jesus himself offers for all of us to read, one that makes him indeed exactly like Jonah was! ALIVE against all odds! And thus Jesus PBUH indeed proved that he was indeed the Messiah.
GOD ALWAYS DEMANDED SACRIFICE?
Not according to the Bible!
Read for yourself Almighty God (in the First Person) speaking:
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007: 021 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel;
Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh.
007: 022
For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
007: 023 But
this thing commanded I them, saying,
Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and
walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
007: 024
But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.
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Jeremiah
Please note how the Bible reports Almighty God in the first person declaring that He SPAKE NOT, and COMMANDED NOT the fathers of the sons of Israel concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices! Emphasis on the verb “spake not.” Which means that anything that begins to constitute what we call speech is hereby denied!
According to Almighty God's first person words as reported in the Bible, what He asked them is clear and explicit: to obey His voice, His Law, and all His commandments-- a message repeated throughout the Bible, even by Christ PBUH when asked how one is to inherit eternal life (see verse references in part 3 of this thread). Is this all a freak coincidence, Eric? Why is the message of Almighty God and His prophets (including Jesus and Muhammad peace be upon all the prophets of God) in total agreement, Eric? Why is Jesus PBUH denying his crucifixion and resurrection and offering that commandment answer (in total agreement with Almighty God's words quoted above and those reported by Muhammad PBUH and the other prophets) as the means to inheriting eternal life? Most importantly, and when asked how one is to enter heaven, why does Christ PBUH
not mention (and in at least three different places in the Bible) that answer that you now believe in, Eric? Another coincidence?
WHY MECCA, WHY CHANGE MY NAME?
First of all no one said that to become Muslim that one must change his or her name. I suspect that Muslim reverts change their name to Abdullah (Servant of Allah), Abdul Rahman (Servant of the Most Gracious), Abdul Raheem (Servant of the Most Merciful) for two reasons: [1] To aid the cause of Islam. These names stand out and automatically invite other people to ask why. [2] To highlight their humility and submission to Almighty God, that they are not racist, not proud, that they are willing to give up even that dear thing which constitutes what they are to make themselves brothers to what many call third world ignorant populations. That is all there is to it, Eric.
As to the general question of why, then kindly allow me to say that you are approaching your search the wrong way. One must not question the reason why, no. Rather one must question whether or not this is Almighty God that is giving the commandment or not. Otherwise, one would be questioning the wisdom of God, Eric. Beware.
But to answer your question, let me tell you this: Almighty God put us here on this earth so that we might worship Him.
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In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful:
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I have only created Jinns and mankind, that they may worship Me.
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(Translation, Holy Qur'an, 51:56)
Trying to comfort His prophet PBUH who was (and continues to be called an imposter by those of proud look), Almighty God says:
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In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful:
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011.117: In truth thy Lord destroyed not the townships tyrannously while their folk were doing right.
011.118: And if thy Lord had willed, He verily would have made mankind one nation, yet they cease not differing,
011.119:
Save him on whom thy Lord hath mercy; and
for that He did create them. And the Word of thy Lord hath been fulfilled: Verily I shall fill hell with the jinn and mankind together.
011.120: And all that We relate unto thee of the story of the messengers is in order that thereby We may make firm thy heart. And herein hath come unto thee the Truth and an exhortation and a reminder for believers.
011.121:
Say to those who do not believe: "Do what ever ye can: We shall do our part;
011.122: "And wait ye! We too shall wait."
011.123: To Allah do belong the unseen (secrets) of the heavens and the earth, and to Him goeth back every affair (for decision): then worship Him, and put thy trust in Him: and thy Lord is not unmindful of aught that ye do.
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(Translation, Holy Qur'an)
And thus, humans are created for the sole purpose of worshiping and serving Almighty God. But He knows that they are not perfect, Eric. Who can possibly know about us more than our creator? No one. And so I put it to you that His mercy goes hand in hand with His purpose of creating us. Almighty God is the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful. This is what He is. He knows that we are not perfect and that we will sin. This is why He gave us that formula you find in your Bible:
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“If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and
will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.”
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2 Chronicles 007:014
No need for Jesus PBUH to be crucified and be an “accursed of God” (just like Satan!) trying to save humanity! Almighty God WILL FORGIVE THEIR sins if they humble themselves, and pray, and seek His face and turn from their wicked ways. He WILL HEAR FROM HEAVEN, Eric! Please note that Muslims are called by the name of Almighty God! Every Friday and during the Friday sermon, and all over this earth, an Imam (a priest like figure) says the following: “O ye servants of Allah. Fear your lord.”
And so if humanity wants to be rewarded with eternal life, and be forgiven its sins it should humble itself and follow the formula He gave them.
Indeed, He is the Oft-Forgiving:
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067:001: Blessed be He in Whose hands is Dominion; and He over all things hath Power;-
067:002: He Who created Death and Life,
that He may try which of you is best in deed: and He is the Exalted in Might,
Oft-Forgiving;-
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(Translation, Holy Qur'an)
They should follow His commands is what they should do.
THE MISSING WEEK
Now concerning Mecca. Please kindly allow me to quote myself answering a similar question on another religion board.
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Concerning your first question, some muslims scholars believe that this calendar issue is important because it marks the start of the Muslim civilization. They argue that for any civilization to be born and prosper that it should be in possession of key ingredients: Language, system of belief, etc. One important ingredient is a place where this (or any) civilization can carry out its functions, use its language, and implement its system. Thus, some Muslim scholars argue that before the Hijra (the prophets' move to Madina) there was no place under the control of the Muslims, and as such the Muslim civilization was lacking one of its vital ingredients.
They may have a point there. But I think that the matter is much more than that. I believe that this was the plan of Almighty God, Christian, taking shape.
Consider what archangel Gabriel PBUH told Daniel PBUH concerning the end of days:
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"Seventy weeks of years are decreed concerning your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to
bring in everlasting righteousness, to
seal both vision and prophet, and to
anoint a most holy place."
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(RSV, Dan 9:24)
Note that there is a SEALING of vision and of prophethood involved. Note also that there is the anointing of a most holy place. Mecca? We will see this shortly.
Christian scholars can account for the 69 weeks of years of the 70 weeks mentioned above, but are in disagreement as to where the last week is/was. Did it end with the cutting off of the Messiah PBUH, or is it yet to start and to end at the end of days. And since they (Christian scholars) can read that verse in Daniel about the Anti-Christ making agreements with many for one week, etc., and because they are too preoccupied to even consider that Mohammed PBUH is truly the Comforter, they think that that week of the Anti-Christ is the seventieth. But it is not!
Take (Dan 9:24) to any English professor, and he/she will tell you (from a purely linguistic perspective) that it can also mean that there are two sets of seventy weeks of years involved.
This is the meaning that Christian scholars miss: Seventy weeks of years are decreed:
[1] To finish the transgression,
[2] To put an end to sin,
[3] and to atone for iniquity
And another set of seventy weeks of years are decreed to:
[1] bring everlasting righteousness
[2] to seal both vision and the prophet
[3] and to anoint a most holy place.
With regards to the first set of seventy weeks: Seven + sixty two = 69, Angel Gabriel PBUH explains them as follows:
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"And after the
sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off, and shall have nothing; and
the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war; desolations are decreed."
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(RSV, Dan 9: 26)
Let us back up one verse and let me quote from the sermon of a Christian priest in the 1960's:
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"... there shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks. It shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time." {Dan 9:25b RSV Modified}
What is Gabriel talking about here? He says there is a definite starting point when the four hundred and ninety years would begin. It is a clear-cut, precise act, recorded in history. It is the time when a decree should go forth to build the city and walls of Jerusalem.
[Cut]
According to Nehemiah, the decree was issued in the twentieth year of the reign of Artaxerxes. We can pinpoint that precisely as occurring in the year 445 B.C.
[Cut]
The angel also indicated that this 490 year period would be divided, first into two divisions, one of seven weeks, and then sixty-two weeks. Seven weeks of seven years each is forty-nine years. During that forty-nine year period the city was to be built again, "with squares and moat, but in a troubled time." History has clearly fulfilled that. The city of Jerusalem was built again. The walls were repaired and the entire city was restored once more. That carries us down to the close of the Old Testament period. Then would follow sixty-two weeks of years, which would be a period of four hundred and thirty-four years. Add this to the forty-nine years and there is a total of four hundred and eighty-three years unto the coming of one here called "an anointed one, a Prince." Now anointed one is the Hebrew word for Messiah. There are no articles in the Hebrew at all. It is not "an anointed one, a Prince," but it is simply, "Messiah, prince." So what the angel says is, from the going forth of the decree to rebuild Jerusalem unto the coming of Messiah Prince would be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks, or a total of four hundred and eighty-three years.
Now that is very precise, is it not? You do not find a more precise timetable of events anywhere in the Bible. If it began in 445 B.C., and you add to that four hundred and eighty-three years, to the exact month (because we know that the month in which the edict to rebuild Jerusalem was issued was the Hebrew month Nisan, which corresponds about to our April), then it brings us down to April, 32 A.D. It is necessary to allow for a four-year error in dating the birth of Christ (4 B.C. rather than 1 A.D.), and to use, as the ancients did, a year of 360 days rather than 365. If we work this out carefully, as certain chronologers have done, we find that the four hundred and eighty-three years (seven years short of the full four hundred and ninety), was fulfilled on the very day the Lord Jesus entered into Jerusalem riding on a donkey, with the multitude of disciples bearing palm branches in their hands going before him crying, "Blessed is the King who comes in the name of the Lord!" Thus he fulfilled Zechariah's prophecy,
"Lo, your king comes to you; triumphant and victorious is he, humble and riding on an ass, on a colt the foal of an ass." {Zech 9:9b RSV}
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Daniel
Note how the trigger (if you wish) of the start of the first set of seventy weeks had something to do with and an event happening in Jerusalem.
And So 70 - (7+62) = 70 - 69 = 1. As mentioned earlier, Christian scholars don't know if the destruction of Jerusalem which took place in 70 After Christ (A.C.) by the Romans (people of the prince according to angel Gabriel PBUH, i.e. people of the Anti-Christ!) marks the
seventieth week. Daniel 9:26 can certainly mean that. Christian scholars, however, prefer to believe that this last week is the week which the Anti Christ will spend doing his work on this earth like so:
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"And he shall make a strong covenant with many for
one week; and for half of the week he shall cause sacrifice and offering to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator."
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(RSV, Dan 9:27)
Note how it says
one week. But it could be another week that is completely unrelated to the two sets of the seventy weeks mentioned earlier. Could it not? As a matter of fact, I think that the first seventy weeks of years where indeed ended with the last (missing) week (of the first set) that was triggered by the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 A.C. Jerusalem seems to be always the trigger point. Please bear with me.
Here is a quote from PBS:
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PBS, headquartered in Alexandria, Virginia, is a private, non-profit media enterprise owned and operated by the nation's 349 public television stations. A trusted community resource, PBS uses the power of noncommercial television, the Internet and other media to enrich the lives of all Americans through quality programs and education services that inform, inspire and delight. Available to 99 percent of American homes with televisions and to an increasing number of digital multimedia households, PBS serves nearly 100 million people each week.
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Inside PBS
And concerning the Apocalypse, it has this to say:
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Death of the prophet Muhammad.
Ever since he had received his first visions in 610, the new religion of Islam had grown remarkably quickly. By 622, Islam had so disturbed the authorities in Mecca that Muhammad and his followers were forced to flee in the Hijra to Medina. But they returned just
seven years later and captured Mecca. Over the next 100 years, Muslim armies would conquer most of the Middle East, North Africa, and Spain.
The apocalyptic significance of the rise of Islam is twofold. Growing partly out of Judeo-Christian monotheism, Islam quickly developed its own rich apocalyptic tradition. And its formidable empire--which included control of Jerusalem--put it on a collision course with Christianity, which would cast Muslims in the role of the Antichrist for centuries to come.
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Apocalypse
Can you believe it? Seven years after the Hijra (and this even according to an American source!), a most Holy place, Mecca, was recaptured. History records that it was anointed and cleansed from all the pagan stone gods that the people were worshiping, exactly like the Daniel verse prophesied!
But what was the trigger point? If we are talking any sense then there must have been a trigger point that marked the start of the second set of seventy weeks when everlasting righteousness, the sealing of both vision and the prophet, and the anointing of a most holy place was to start.
If the coming of the anointed one (Messiah in Hebrew, Masseeh in Arabic, Christos in Greek) was triggered by an event in Jerusalem (command to build the temple), and the first set of seventy weeks ended by another event happening in Jerusalem (destruction of the temple in 70 AC on the hands of the Romans, people of the prince to come), then there must have been yet another trigger point for the start of the second set of seventy weeks, and that that trigger point must also have had something to do with Jerusalem. Fair enough? Fair enough.
The Muslim calendar year starts at year 1 in 622 A.C., and the capture of Mecca is year 8 of the Muslim calendar. Calculate with me: 8-1 = 7 years, which is one week of years. And it is in this week that Mecca was anointed.
To get at the trigger point let us calculate again: 70 weeks of years X 7 years in a week= 490 years. And since the end point was 630 A.C., then the start point was 630-490 = 140 A.C.
Let us make the calculations based on a 360 day year as the ancients did => 365 - 360 = 5 day difference per year. Now => 5 x 490 = 2450 days error. Convert to years => 2450 / 360 (days per year) = 6.8055555 years error. And so the trigger point is actually 140 A.C. - 6.8055555 = 133.1944445, i.e. 132 A.C.
Can you think of any event in History that took place in or around 132 A.C. Did you know that Jerusalem was sacked again in 132 A.C.?
Most amazing, no? Look up any history book or reference and you will read something like so: "Jerusalem was destroyed by Titus in 71 AD and sacked again in 132 AD and then rebuilt by Hadrian." (1)
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End of quote.
(1)
Crusades.
[ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: eString ]
