Is carnal christianity biblically correct?

[DHK]

No...the old man is dead. We are to deprive of power the deeds of the body, the flesh lusts against the Spirit.

The man dead in sins, the carnal man, the unregenerate man – that man has absolutely ceased to be. He is dead and gone.

Your analysis is wrong. It contradicts Scripture.
We all have the old man, which is of the flesh or carnal. It never departs from us. Paul taught this to both the Ephesians and the Colossians.
Consider Ephesians four:

Eph 4:17-24
(17) This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
(18) Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
(19) Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
(20) But ye have not so learned Christ;
(21) If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
(22) That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
(23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
(24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

In verses 17-19 Paul does not say that they are Gentiles. Rather he tells them not to walk as the Gentiles. In order to do so, they must put off the old man.

In verse 24 he tells them to put on the new man, even though they had already been saved for some time. This was a daily practice: put off; put on.
We live in a sea of corruption. We are attacked by Satan daily. We are tempted by sin, and we do sin. We need to put off all these things that Paul mentions:

Eph 4:25-30
(25) Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
(26) Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
(27) Neither give place to the devil.
(28) Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
(29) Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
(30) And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

These things were written for our learning and our admonition.
Note also:
Don't give place to the devil.
Grieve not the Holy Spirit of God.
--The believer is not dead to sin; he does have the old man, the carnal flesh, etc. To deny such is to grieve the Spirit of God and give place to the devil.
Every time one sins he gives into his carnal selfishness.

 

[Iconoclast]

Your analysis is wrong. It contradicts Scripture.
We all have the old man, which is of the flesh or carnal. It never departs from us. Paul taught this to both the Ephesians and the Colossians.
Consider Ephesians four:

Eph 4:17-24
(17) This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
(18) Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
(19) Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
(20) But ye have not so learned Christ;
(21) If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
(22) That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
(23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
(24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

In verses 17-19 Paul does not say that they are Gentiles. Rather he tells them not to walk as the Gentiles. In order to do so, they must put off the old man.

In verse 24 he tells them to put on the new man, even though they had already been saved for some time. This was a daily practice: put off; put on.
We live in a sea of corruption. We are attacked by Satan daily. We are tempted by sin, and we do sin. We need to put off all these things that Paul mentions:

Eph 4:25-30
(25) Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
(26) Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
(27) Neither give place to the devil.
(28) Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
(29) Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
(30) And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

These things were written for our learning and our admonition.
Note also:
Don't give place to the devil.
Grieve not the Holy Spirit of God.
--The believer is not dead to sin; he does have the old man, the carnal flesh, etc. To deny such is to grieve the Spirit of God and give place to the devil.
Every time one sins he gives into his carnal selfishness.

Your attempt to avoid col 3 by going to eph 4 does not help you as the teaching is the same.
Real Christians have put off the old having put on the new when God saved them.

here is the passage you seek to avoid.
5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.

8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.

9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:



the passage will not go away....eph4 teaches the same thing in the original language so when you turn from this truth you have no where to go but man -centered error.

Christians have a duty to mortify remaining sin....vs 7-9 teach that....notice he says in vs 7....
7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.



That time of living in carnality...is past in the lives of Christians.

The real battle against sin and corruption is on.....no Christian lives as you suggest. Carnal professors do...but they are goats.

Vine adds that...

The renewal here mentioned is not that of the mind itself in its natural powers of memory, judgment and perception, but ‘the spirit of the mind,’ which, under the controlling power of the indwelling Holy Spirit, directs its bent and energies Godward in the enjoyment of “fellowship with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ,” and of the fulfilment of the will of God. The word is frequent in inscriptions and in the papyri. (Vine, W E: Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words. 1996. Nelson)

The present tense indicates that the spirit of their mind is continually being renewed. The passive voice indicates that the subject (the believer's mind) is acted upon by outside force (cp 2Co 4:16, Col 3:10-note) and in context this "force" or "source" is the Spirit of God (surely interconnected with the continual intake of the Word of God) not from within ourselves (cp 1Co 2:14, 15, 16). The idea then would be to let oneself be renewed (see TDNT quote above) or voluntarily submit to the idea of continual progress and growth, which is the antithesis of the corrupting just mentioned (Ep 4:22-note)

This renewal points to a complete about-face in their thinking, a change from mental impurity to holiness. The Spirit of God influences the thought processes of believers so that they begin more and more to reason from God’s viewpoint.

The new self - The new man. The new self is a brand new self that did not exist before salvation and which makes possible a new quality of life and service which was heretofore impossible (cp related word kainotes in Ro 6:4-note and Ro 7:6-note). The old self is the unsaved person still in Adam (1Co 15:22, 45, Ro 5:12-note, Ro 5:17-note, Ro 5:18, 19-note) and dominated by their rebellious, anti-God, totally depraved nature, while the new self refers to the saved person dominated by the divine nature (2Pe 1:4-note).

John Eadie says...

The “new man” is in contrast with the “old man,” and represents that new assemblage of holy principles and desires which have a unity of origin, and a common result of operation. (Ibid

MacArthur notes that...

Everyone who is in Christ becomes a new creature (cf. Ga 6:15). Kainos (new) means new in quality, not just in sequence; believers’ “old self was crucified with Him” (Ro 6:6-note); they have therefore laid “aside the old self … and put on the new self” (Ep 4:22-note, Ep 4:24-note; Col. 3:9-note, Col 3:10-note). (MacArthur, J. 2Corinthians. Chicago: Moody Publishers)

WHICH IN THE LIKENESS OF GOD HAS BEEN CREATED IN RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HOLINESS OF THE TRUTH: ton kata theon ktisthenta (APPMSA) en dikaiosune kai hosioteti tes aletheias: (Genesis 1:26,27; 2Corinthians 3:18; Colossians 3:10; 1John 3:2) (Ep 2:10; Galatians 6:15) (Ps 45:6,7; Ro 8:29; Titus 2:14; Hebrews 1:8; 12:14; 1Jn 3:3) (John 17:17)

Which in the likeness of God has been created - The new man is what a believer has been created to be in Christ. It is the new creation, in which old things have passed away and all things have become new (2Co 5:17-note). This new kind of man is according to God, that is, created in His likeness. And this new man manifests or shows itself to be a "brand new" man in Christ by living (as it were) in the atmosphere of righteousness (right conduct before God and man) and holiness (this is the state of a proper attitude toward God which is exhibited in action, specifically in a lifestyle set apart from the profane, set apart from the godless, even anti-God world system ruled by Satan [1Jn 5:19, Lk 4:6], and instead oriented toward God, toward what pleases Him [cp Col 1:9-note, Col 1:10-note, 2Co 5:9-note, He 11:6-note]).

 

[revmwc]

Your attempt to avoid col 3 by going to eph 4 does not help you as the teaching is the same.
Real Christians have put off the old having put on the new when God saved them.

here is the passage you seek to avoid.
5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.

8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.

9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:



the passage will not go away....eph4 teaches the same thing in the original language so when you turn from this truth you have no where to go but man -centered error.

Christians have a duty to mortify remaining sin....vs 7-9 teach that....notice he says in vs 7....
7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.



That time of living in carnality...is past in the lives of Christians.

The real battle against sin and corruption is on.....no Christian lives as you suggest. Carnal professors do...but they are goats.

Well let's look at the interlinear for Colossians 3:
5. make Ye Dead then the members of you the on of the land prostitution Uncleaness Emotion on Feeling evil and the more having Which any is idolatry.
So we are to make dead the sins that come our way, sounds like it is a continuous effort.

6. Through which is coming the indignation of the God on the sons of Perdition.

God's judgment is coming upon all the unbelivers.

7. In whom and you about tread once when YE lived in them

We walked in those sins when we were of the world.

8. Now yet be from placing (be ye putting away) and you the all indignation fury evil harm averment vile saying out of the mouth of you

We are to put away these things,

9. No be ye falsifying into one another from out slipping the old human together to the pracitisings of the same.

We are to keep the old nature the old man from slipping out of usand keep from practicing the same t hings as the world.

10. And in slipping the young the one being up newed into on knowledge according to image of the one Creating Same.

We are to continue to slip into the new man with the knowledge we gain that is a daily practice putting on Christ.

We must daily practice walking in the new man with the Spiritual knowledge and not allow the old nature to slip out of us. That is what the Greek to English conveys from the interlinear.

 

[Iconoclast]

Well let's look at the interlinear for Colossians 3:
5. make Ye Dead then the members of you the on of the land prostitution Uncleaness Emotion on Feeling evil and the more having Which any is idolatry.
So we are to make dead the sins that come our way, sounds like it is a continuous effort.

6. Through which is coming the indignation of the God on the sons of Perdition.

God's judgment is coming upon all the unbelivers.

7. In whom and you about tread once when YE lived in them

We walked in those sins when we were of the world.

8. Now yet be from placing (be ye putting away) and you the all indignation fury evil harm averment vile saying out of the mouth of you

We are to put away these things,

9. No be ye falsifying into one another from out slipping the old human together to the pracitisings of the same.

We are to keep the old nature the old man from slipping out of usand keep from practicing the same t hings as the world.

10. And in slipping the young the one being up newed into on knowledge according to image of the one Creating Same.

We are to continue to slip into the new man with the knowledge we gain that is a daily practice putting on Christ.

We must daily practice walking in the new man with the Spiritual knowledge and not allow the old nature to slip out of us. That is what the Greek to English conveys from the interlinear.

You need to throw that bogus interlinear you keep trying to use in the trash...it does not agree with any other.....everytime you attempt to quote from that I get an allergic reaction.

It does not match others not even close...there is a reason you got it at that discount price.

Go on bible gateway and look up the passage in mounce reverse interlinear.

 

[revmwc]

You need to throw that bogus interlinear you keep trying to use in the trash...it does not agree with any other.....everytime you attempt to quote from that I get an allergic reaction.

It does not match others not even close...there is a reason you got it at that discount price.

Go on bible gateway and look up the passage in mounce reverse interlinear.

Here is the link for you:

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Greek_Index.htm

The Scrivener 1894 Textus Receptus edition, with complete parsing information for all Greek words. Morphological analysis provided by Dr. Maurice A. Robinson.
The Textus Receptus 1894 Greek text is the corresponding Greek text to the 1611 King James Version. The Scrivener text is a modified Beza 1598 Textus Receptus in which changes have been made to reflect the readings chosen by the KJV translators. Scrivener's intent was to artificially create a Greek text that closely matched the translator-modified Textus Receptus text and the resulting English version. This is a useful text for comparison for those with proficiency in Greek.

 

[revmwc]

You need to throw that bogus interlinear you keep trying to use in the trash...it does not agree with any other.....everytime you attempt to quote from that I get an allergic reaction.

It does not match others not even close...there is a reason you got it at that discount price.

Go on bible gateway and look up the passage in mounce reverse interlinear.

And of course you can go the the Youngs literal in Bible gateway:
5 Put to death, then, your members that [are] upon the earth -- whoredom, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and the covetousness, which is idolatry --
6 because of which things cometh the anger of God upon the sons of the disobedience,
7 in which also ye -- ye did walk once, when ye lived in them;
8 but now put off, even ye, the whole -- anger, wrath, malice, evil-speaking, filthy talking -- out of your mouth.
9 Lie not one to another, having put off the old man with his practices,
10 and having put on the new, which is renewed in regard to knowledge, after the image of Him who did create him;

Again it the believer who must put off the old man and put on the new every single day.

 

[revmwc]

You need to throw that bogus interlinear you keep trying to use in the trash...it does not agree with any other.....everytime you attempt to quote from that I get an allergic reaction.

It does not match others not even close...there is a reason you got it at that discount price.

Go on bible gateway and look up the passage in mounce reverse interlinear.

Or you could go to the Wycliffe Bible and see:

5 Therefore slay ye your members [Therefore slay your members], which be on the earth, fornication, uncleanness, lechery, evil covetousness, and avarice, which is service of maumets [which is service of simulacra];
6 for which things the wrath of God came on the sons of unbelief;
7 in which also ye walked some time, when ye lived in them.
8 But now put ye away all things, wrath, indignation, malice, blasphemy and foul words of your mouth. [But now and ye put away all things, wrath, indignation, malice, blasphemy, foul word of your mouth.]
9 Do not ye lie together; despoil ye you from the old man with his deeds, [Do not ye lie, or gab, together, spoiling the old man with his deeds,]
10 and clothe ye the new man [and clothing the new man], that is made new again into the knowing of God, after the image of him that made him;


Again it the believer who must continually practice putting on the new man.

 

[revmwc]

You need to throw that bogus interlinear you keep trying to use in the trash...it does not agree with any other.....everytime you attempt to quote from that I get an allergic reaction.

It does not match others not even close...there is a reason you got it at that discount price.

Go on bible gateway and look up the passage in mounce reverse interlinear.

Here is mounce:
5 Therefore oun put to death nekroō · ho whatever melos · ho is earthly epi ho · ho in you: sexual porneia immorality , impurity akatharsia, lust pathos, evil kakos desire epithumia, and kai · ho covetousness pleonexia, which hostis is eimi idolatry eidōlolatria. 6 Because dia of these hos, the ho wrath orgē of ho God theos is coming erchomai upon epi the ho sons hyios of ho disobedience apeitheia. 7 And in en them hos you hymeis also kai once pote walked peripateō, when hote you were living zaō among en them houtos. 8 But de now nyni you hymeis must put apotithēmi away · kai all pas those things ho: anger orgē, rage thumos, malice kakia, slander blasphēmia, and filthy aischrologia talk from ek · ho your hymeis mouth stoma. 9 Stop mē lying pseudomai to eis one allēlōn another , since you have put apekdyomai off the ho old palaios man anthrōpos with syn · ho its autos practices praxis, 10 and kai have put endyō on the ho new neos man , which ho is being renewed anakainoō in eis knowledge epignōsis after kata the image eikōn of ho its autos creator ktizō.

Again we are to put off the old man as we gain more knowledge of God through study. They all say for the believer to put off the old and continue to put on the new.

 

[Iconoclast]

And of course you can go the the Youngs literal in Bible gateway:
5 Put to death, then, your members that [are] upon the earth -- whoredom, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and the covetousness, which is idolatry --
6 because of which things cometh the anger of God upon the sons of the disobedience,
7 in which also ye -- ye did walk once, when ye lived in them;
8 but now put off, even ye, the whole -- anger, wrath, malice, evil-speaking, filthy talking -- out of your mouth.
9 Lie not one to another, having put off the old man with his practices,
10 and having put on the new, which is renewed in regard to knowledge, after the image of Him who did create him;

Again it the believer who must put off the old man and put on the new every single day.

You mis-read this...the believer is to mortify the sins....the old man is already dead...he deprives of power the sins of the flesh....not any old man....that is a false teaching not taught in the text you offer.

having put off the old man with his practices, the old man was already gone...verse 9

 

[Iconoclast]

Here is mounce:
5 Therefore oun put to death nekroō · ho whatever melos · ho is earthly epi ho · ho in you: sexual porneia immorality , impurity akatharsia, lust pathos, evil kakos desire epithumia, and kai · ho covetousness pleonexia, which hostis is eimi idolatry eidōlolatria. 6 Because dia of these hos, the ho wrath orgē of ho God theos is coming erchomai upon epi the ho sons hyios of ho disobedience apeitheia. 7 And in en them hos you hymeis also kai once pote walked peripateō, when hote you were living zaō among en them houtos. 8 But de now nyni you hymeis must put apotithēmi away · kai all pas those things ho: anger orgē, rage thumos, malice kakia, slander blasphēmia, and filthy aischrologia talk from ek · ho your hymeis mouth stoma. 9 Stop mē lying pseudomai to eis one allēlōn another , since you have put apekdyomai off the ho old palaios man anthrōpos with syn · ho its autos practices praxis, 10 and kai have put endyō on the ho new neos man , which ho is being renewed anakainoō in eis knowledge epignōsis after kata the image eikōn of ho its autos creator ktizō.

Again we are to put off the old man as we gain more knowledge of God through study. They all say for the believer to put off the old and continue to put on the new.

Again you look at verse 9 and miss it.....SINCE YOU HAVE PUT OFF THE OLD MAN.....why do you struggle with this....in the thread on gen studuies I posted links to 5 sermons on mortification that cover this. This is a vital area of study...look it over and let me know what you think...there is plenty about warring against sin.

here;

1. Learn to admit sin for what it really is. Call a spade a spade — call it “sexual immorality,” not “I’m being tempted a little”; call it “impurity,” not “I’m struggling with my thought life”; call it “evil desire, which is idolatry,” not “I think I need to order my priorities a bit better.” This pattern runs right through this whole section. How powerfully this unmasks self-deceit — and helps us to unmask sin lurking in the hidden corners of our hearts!

2. See sin for what your sin really is in God’s presence. “On account of these the wrath of God is coming” (3:6). The masters of the spiritual life spoke of dragging our lusts (kicking and screaming, though they be) to the cross, to a wrath-bearing Christ. My sin leads to — not lasting pleasure — but holy divine displeasure. See the true nature of your sin in the light of its punishment. Too easily do we think that sin is less serious in Christians than it is in non-believers: “It’s forgiven, isn’t it?” Not if we continue in it (1 John 3:9)! Take a heaven’s-eye view of sin and feel the shame of that in which you once walked (Col. 3:7; see also Rom. 6:21).

3. Recognize the inconsistency of your sin. You put off the “old man,” and have put on the “new man” (3:9–10). You are no longer the “old man.” The identity you had “in Adam” is gone. The old man was “crucified with him [Christ] in order that the body of sin [probably “life in the body dominated by sin”] might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin” (Rom. 6:6). New men live new lives. Anything less than this is a contradiction of who I am “in Christ.”

4. Put sin to death (Col. 3:5). It is as “simple” as that. Refuse it, starve it, and reject it. You cannot “mortify” sin without the pain of the kill. There is no other way!

But notice that Paul sets this in a very important, broader context. The negative task of putting sin to death will not be accomplished in isolation from the positive call of the Gospel to “put on” the Lord Jesus Christ (Rom. 13:14). Paul spells this out in Colossians 3:12–17. Sweeping the house clean simply leaves us open to a further invasion of sin. But when we understand the “glorious exchange” principle of the Gospel of grace, then we will begin to make some real advance in holiness. As sinful desires and habits are not only rejected, but exchanged for Christ-like graces (3:12) and actions (3:13); as we are clothed in Christ’s character and His graces are held together by love (v. 14), not only in our private life but also in the church fellowship (vv. 12–16), Christ’s name and glory are manifested and exalted in and among us (3:17).

 

[Iconoclast]

Or you could go to the Wycliffe Bible and see:

5 Therefore slay ye your members [Therefore slay your members], which be on the earth, fornication, uncleanness, lechery, evil covetousness, and avarice, which is service of maumets [which is service of simulacra];
6 for which things the wrath of God came on the sons of unbelief;
7 in which also ye walked some time, when ye lived in them.
8 But now put ye away all things, wrath, indignation, malice, blasphemy and foul words of your mouth. [But now and ye put away all things, wrath, indignation, malice, blasphemy, foul word of your mouth.]
9 Do not ye lie together; despoil ye you from the old man with his deeds, [Do not ye lie, or gab, together, spoiling the old man with his deeds,]
10 and clothe ye the new man [and clothing the new man], that is made new again into the knowing of God, after the image of him that made him;


Again it the believer who must continually practice putting on the new man.

The believer is a new man.

 

[DHK]

You mis-read this...the believer is to mortify the sins....the old man is already dead...he deprives of power the sins of the flesh....not any old man....that is a false teaching not taught in the text you offer.

If the old man was mortified you wouldn't sin.
If the old man was dead you wouldn't sin.

We all sin every day. Why? Because each one of us has present within "the old man," which every day must be put to death, crucified on a daily basis. It is not a one time even.
Put off the old man; put on the new man--daily.

Jesus said:
If any man shall come after me, let him deny himself, take up his cross daily and follow me.
The cross is an instrument of death. He must put himself to death every day. Every day the old man must be crucified, put to death.
1Cor.15:31 "I die daily..."

 

[SovereignGrace]

The thing that people need to differentiate is that walking after the flesh and in the flesh are two things entirely different. Sinners walk after the flesh, seeking to please it. Christians live in the flesh, yet desire to please God.


Being in the flesh, we will sin, and there is no getting around it. But it grieves us and we repent and move on. Sinners, when they sin, they do not seek repentance, and many gloat about their sins.

 

[SovereignGrace]

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.[Rom. 8:1 KJV]


As we can read here, Christians walk after the Spirit, and not in the Spirit. If we were in the Spirit at all times, we would never sin. We walk after(some translations use according to) the Spirit, seeking to please God. But we never walk in the Spirit continually.

Conversely, we live in the flesh but not after(according to) the flesh.


***I used the KJV here because my beloved NIV does not have that last portion of 8:1.

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

If the old man was mortified you wouldn't sin.

We are to mortify remaining sin...not the old man who is dead.If your old man is not dead you are not a Christian.

If the old man was dead you wouldn't sin.

The old man is dead scripture is clear...
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

This is clear so any explanation of this must include this fact which you fail to do every time. We are a new man...from the other thread;

Now one can go on and expound and expatiate upon all the sin of which we are conscious in ourselves, how weak and inconsistent and hypocritical we are, but whatever the failings of every believer, and whatever power sin may exercise still in our lives as Christians, we are not the men or women that we used to be.

There is not a Christian here who has the right to deem himself the man that he had once been, and what is more he doesn’t have the right to live like the man that he once was.

The un*regenerate man, dead in sins, has ceased to be; the carnal mind that was enmity against God, that has ceased to be.

The human being who was totally incapable of receiving the things of the Spirit of God; that has ceased to be.

The man who was dead in trespasses and sins is no more.


The believer is not an unregenerate and a regenerate man.

He is not a man with a new heart and an old heart.


He is, and he is only, a regenerate man.

He has, and he has only, a new heart.

He has only the one nature, the one human nature, transformed by the grace of Almighty God.



The man dead in sins, the carnal man, the unregenerate man – that man has absolutely ceased to be. He is dead and gone. That is our past; that is definitive mortification.

Our regeneration and our union with Jesus Christ represent a break, and it is a decisive break, with what we used to be. So every Christian has died to the dominion of sin. That is the second biblical proposition; the Christian has died to the domination and tyranny of sin over him.

We all sin every day. Why? Because each one of us has present within "the old man,"

No... we are in a body that is still able to sin.That's why.

which every day must be put to death,crucified on a daily basis

.
This is false perfectionism teaching

It is not a one time event.

Scripture says it is.

Put off the old man; put on the new man--daily.

it has already been done once for all time,by God...it is not something we do. To deny this is to deny God is at work in a person.

Jesus said:
If any man shall come after me, let him deny himself, take up his cross daily and follow me.
The cross is an instrument of death. He must put himself to death every day. Every day the old man must be crucified, put to death.
1Cor.15:31 "I die daily..."

No...we identify with jesus everyday.

 

[Iconoclast]

The thing that people need to differentiate is that walking after the flesh and in the flesh are two things entirely different. Sinners walk after the flesh, seeking to please it. Christians live in the flesh, yet desire to please God.


Being in the flesh, we will sin, and there is no getting around it. But it grieves us and we repent and move on. Sinners, when they sin, they do not seek repentance, and many gloat about their sins.

Correct...those who misunderstand this issue mix that up, and mix up all terminolgy related to the issue causing confused ideas to come forth.:thumbs:

 

[DHK]

The thing that people need to differentiate is that walking after the flesh and in the flesh are two things entirely different. Sinners walk after the flesh, seeking to please it. Christians live in the flesh, yet desire to please God.


Being in the flesh, we will sin, and there is no getting around it. But it grieves us and we repent and move on. Sinners, when they sin, they do not seek repentance, and many gloat about their sins.

There are many Christians that walk in the flesh and they seek to please it. They really don't try to get victory over the flesh because they don't want to. At the same time most don't judge them as to losing their salvation or say they weren't really saved in the first place--a problem for Calvinists.

I will give you a common example.
One of he sins that God "hates" is gluttony.
I have observed many obese preachers and other believers.
They are overweight because they want to be, that is they enjoy their food, eat large quantities of the wrong kind of food (deep fried chicken, fast food, etc.), and don't really care about that total calorie consumption and fat intake at the end of the day. They don't even try to go on a diet. Why? They enjoy their food too much. They don't want to "crucify the flesh;" that is "the old man."
Just like the unregenerate, they would rather live according to the flesh, walk in the flesh. There is no repentance here. They love their style of life, and have no intent on cutting down on their intake of food or altering their lifestyle. It would be too much of a sacrifice.
Stepping on some toes? Yes indeed, but it is the truth. How much of America is overweight? As much as 3 in 5 or 60% and they are not all unregenerate!

Fast Facts
Data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey, 2009–2010 2, 3
More than 2 in 3 adults are considered to be overweight or obese.
More than 1 in 3 adults are considered to be obese.
More than 1 in 20 adults are considered to have extreme obesity.
About one-third of children and adolescents ages 6 to 19 are considered to be overweight or obese.
More than 1 in 6 children and adolescents ages 6 to 19 are considered to be obese.

http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-inf...tics/Pages/overweight-obesity-statistics.aspx

 

[Yeshua1]

There are many Christians that walk in the flesh and they seek to please it. They really don't try to get victory over the flesh because they don't want to. At the same time most don't judge them as to losing their salvation or say they weren't really saved in the first place--a problem for Calvinists.

I will give you a common example.
One of he sins that God "hates" is gluttony.
I have observed many obese preachers and other believers.
They are overweight because they want to be, that is they enjoy their food, eat large quantities of the wrong kind of food (deep fried chicken, fast food, etc.), and don't really care about that total calorie consumption and fat intake at the end of the day. They don't even try to go on a diet. Why? They enjoy their food too much. They don't want to "crucify the flesh;" that is "the old man."
Just like the unregenerate, they would rather live according to the flesh, walk in the flesh. There is no repentance here. They love their style of life, and have no intent on cutting down on their intake of food or altering their lifestyle. It would be too much of a sacrifice.
Stepping on some toes? Yes indeed, but it is the truth. How much of America is overweight? As much as 3 in 5 or 60% and they are not all unregenerate!

http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-inf...tics/Pages/overweight-obesity-statistics.aspx

All of us here posting have still sin areas that we must deal with, and though the great truth is that Jesus can give us the means through the Holy Spirit to live as we ought to for Him, that there will be times that we submit to the desires of the flesh, but we need to repent and seek his grace to keep moving on!

 

[DHK]

All of us here posting have still sin areas that we must deal with, and though the great truth is that Jesus can give us the means through the Holy Spirit to live as we ought to for Him, that there will be times that we submit to the desires of the flesh, but we need to repent and seek his grace to keep moving on!

Don't write it off as "just some area to deal with." This is one of the most serious sins in the Bible.

Matthew 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
--It was part of an aspersion thrown on Christ to put him in the worst possible light as possible.

Luk 7:34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!

1Co 11:21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.
1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
1Co 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
--Coming to the Lord's Table in such a state caused some of these believers their own lives. God judged them severely.

This was the attitude of unbelievers which God judges severely.
Luk 12:19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
Luk 12:20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
--This gluttonous man, God called a fool! Eat (be gluttonous), drink, and be merry. That is the motto of the unsaved.

The person who does so does not have the fruit of the Spirit:
Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
--They are intemperant in their food intake which is gluttony.

Paul spoke against it, and it made kings tremble.
Act 24:25 And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.

The sin of temperance that Paul speaks of, speaks of man who lacks self-control. If one cannot control their intake of food, how can they properly manage the control and management of a church?

The ESV says:
1Ti 3:2 Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
--This qualification would rule out those who are grossly overweight as pastors.

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

There are many Christians that walk in the flesh and they seek to please it. They really don't try to get victory over the flesh because they don't want to. At the same time most don't judge them as to losing their salvation or say they weren't really saved in the first place--a problem for Calvinists

.

This is subjective....any person under the dominion of the flesh is not saved .

I will give you a common example.
One of he sins that God "hates" is gluttony.
I have observed many obese preachers and other believers.

God is the judge of all such persons. If it is a habitual practice of sin they will be sent to hell.

They are overweight because they want to be, that is they enjoy their food, eat large quantities of the wrong kind of food (deep fried chicken, fast food, etc.), and don't really care about that total calorie consumption and fat intake at the end of the day. They don't even try to go on a diet. Why? They enjoy their food too much. They don't want to "crucify the flesh;" that is "the old man."

The old man is already crucified in real Christians.

Just like the unregenerate, they would rather live according to the flesh, walk in the flesh

.

Christians are not 'just like the unregenerate...they cannot be.

There is no repentance here.

No repentance , no salvation.