Is carnal christianity biblically correct?

[revmwc]

So it is possible to live like an unbeliever, to sin continually and yet still be saved? I don't think so!

Romans 6:1-2, 14. 'What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?...............For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.'

Of course we are saved by grace through faith, but we are saved from our sins, not in them. The believer is born again by the Holy Spirit of God unto good works, not unto evil ones. Notice that Paul says that for the very reason that Christians are not under law but under grace, sin shall not have dominion over us. Not ought not; not even must not; but shall not. It's absolutely certain.

So what do we say when a professing Christian is living a life where there is continually nothing but sin and carnality to be seen? We have to say that he in not a Christian; that he has not been born from above and that he is in need of conversion. 'Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived!' (1 Cor. 6:9).

BTW, it appears that the immoral man of 1 Cor. 5 was brought to repentance (2 Cor. 3-11).

Paul says "it is possible to live like an unbeliever, to sin continually and yet still be save"

1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

This says a believer can gain nothing but wood, hay and straw, that is do no good works for God, how does one not do good works if they are truly saved. Those who say you will produce fruit for God if your saved need to answer how a believer can receive only wood, hay and straw and yet still be saved, yet so as through the fire. This is a carnal Christian one who doesn't walk after the Spirit. to walk after the Spirit means you are filled that is controlled by Him and when under His influence and control you produce good works. Paul says that a believer can suffer an eternal loss at the BEMA seat Judgment and still be saved very clear.

 

[Iconoclast]

So it is possible to live like an unbeliever, to sin continually and yet still be saved? I don't think so!

Romans 6:1-2, 14. 'What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?...............For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.'

Of course we are saved by grace through faith, but we are saved from our sins, not in them. The believer is born again by the Holy Spirit of God unto good works, not unto evil ones. Notice that Paul says that for the very reason that Christians are not under law but under grace, sin shall not have dominion over us. Not ought not; not even must not; but shall not. It's absolutely certain.

So what do we say when a professing Christian is living a life where there is continually nothing but sin and carnality to be seen? We have to say that he in not a Christian; that he has not been born from above and that he is in need of conversion. 'Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived!' (1 Cor. 6:9).

BTW, it appears that the immoral man of 1 Cor. 5 was brought to repentance (2 Cor. 3-11).

Of course you have correctly posted on these passages.To suggest as these men and others have that all manner of professed Christians live a life of total denial and rebellion against the indwelling Spirit and just lose a few rewards in a future Kingdom is a fantasy that will turn into a nightmare for those goats at the White Throne Judgment.

revmac says:

Paul says "it is possible to live like an unbeliever, to sin continually and yet still be save"

This is not found anywhere in scripture....the verses you offer say nothing of this. These ideas need to be abandoned if you would follow the biblical teaching that Paul actually taught;

14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty
7 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

this is not optional....

 

[revmwc]

Of course you have correctly posted on these passages.To suggest as these men and others have that all manner of professed Christians live a life of total denial and rebellion against the indwelling Spirit and just lose a few rewards in a future Kingdom is a fantasy that will turn into a nightmare for those goats at the White Throne Judgment.

revmac says:



This is not found anywhere in scripture....the verses you offer say nothing of this. These ideas need to be abandoned if you would follow the biblical teaching that Paul actually taught;

14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty
7 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

this is not optional....

What was Paul saying here?

1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

The highlighted portion shows us one who receives wood, hay and stubble only as their eternal reward. So were they a Carnal Christian or Christian who was fully influenced by the Holy Spirit and just never did anything of intrinsic value for God?

 

[Iconoclast]

What was Paul saying here?



The highlighted portion shows us one who receives wood, hay and stubble only as their eternal reward. So were they a Carnal Christian or Christian who was fully influenced by the Holy Spirit and just never did anything of intrinsic value for God?

There is no such thing as a "carnal Christian". Paul indicates that not everything professed Christians do is done for gospel motives....a person can do something for eyeservice as a man pleaser for example....he has gotten his reward in this life, this age...

it speaks of the quality of the work....think of the teaching of the widows mite.

 

[revmwc]

There is no such thing as a "carnal Christian". Paul indicates that not everything professed Christians do is done for gospel motives....a person can do something for eyeservice as a man pleaser for example....he has gotten his reward in this life, this age...

it speaks of the quality of the work....think of the teaching of the widows mite.

Doing things as a man pleaser is a sin is it for it is done in pride, thus this believers is living in the pride of life as a believer, living in sin and thus carnal in the flesh.

Galatians 9:
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

1 John 2: For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

1 Timothy 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

All show being a man pleaser is pride and pride is the sin that brought the fall of satan.

 

[DHK]

So it is possible to live like an unbeliever, to sin continually and yet still be saved? I don't think so!

Romans 6:1-2, 14. 'What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?...............For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.'

Very briefly, in the Book of Romans, from chapters one to eight Paul lays down the principles of salvation; principles of Christianity. From nine to eleven he deals with the nation of Israel, and from 12 to the end he speaks of putting those principles into practice--the practical Christian life.
In principle one can say: "Our old man is crucified with Christ" (Rom.6:6), and "we are dead to sin" (Rom.6:2), but in practice we cannot.

Paul teaches the opposite elsewhere. Why? Because in practice it is not true. In practice the old man must be put to death every day. In practice we are to put to death the old man, or put off the old man and put on the new man. It is a daily exercise. The old man is always there. It is our old nature and we will never be rid of it until Christ comes.
Thus we are still under the dominion of sin. The only time we are not under the dominion of sin is when we are completely yielded to the Holy Spirit; full of the Holy Spirit as Paul commands us to be (Eph.5:18).
Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
--Be ye continually filled with the Holy Spirit. It is a daily exercise.

Of course we are saved by grace through faith, but we are saved from our sins, not in them.

Where does it say we are saved from our sins. We are saved from a sinful lifestyle, not from individual sins. A man who smokes may come to the Lord but that doesn't mean his smoking habit will automatically disappear the day he trusts the Lord. All sin doesn't disappear the day one trusts the Lord. He doesn't become a sinless being.

The believer is born again by the Holy Spirit of God unto good works, not unto evil ones. Notice that Paul says that for the very reason that Christians are not under law but under grace, sin shall not have dominion over us. Not ought not; not even must not; but shall not. It's absolutely certain.

And that is a general statement. It is generally true. It does not mean that we are in a state of entire sanctification. When you were saved did the Lord so transform you that you were absolutely sinless? I am sure that the Lord changed you, but how much? Sanctification is a process, and it is growth that has different rates of growth--faster in some than in others.

So what do we say when a professing Christian is living a life where there is continually nothing but sin and carnality to be seen?

Do you mean like Paul described in 1Cor.3:1-5?
Like Paul, we patiently work with them at the place where they are instead of automatically condemning them as unsaved wicked individuals.

We have to say that he in not a Christian; that he has not been born from above and that he is in need of conversion.

Why are you so quick to judge if you have not even discussed with that person his state of salvation and discerned why his life appears carnal to you? Only God knows the heart. Man judges from the outward appearance; God judges the heart.

'Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived!' (1 Cor. 6:9).

I understand that "the unrighteous" will not inherit the kingdom of God.
I am not so quick to judge who "the unrighteous" are. God knows the heart.

BTW, it appears that the immoral man of 1 Cor. 5 was brought to repentance (2 Cor. 3-11).

And Paul called him a brother from day one. We do not excommunicate the unsaved from our churches. I have never seen that in my life. But I have seen wayward believers put out of fellowship. The directives of Jesus are followed as put forward in Matthew 18. It was impossible for that person not to have been a believer. That is why Paul was so shocked.

The repentance was a repentance over that particular sin. He was not repenting in order to be saved.
Salvation is not by repentance. Salvation is by grace through faith.

 

[Iconoclast]

Doing things as a man pleaser is a sin is it for it is done in pride, thus this believers is living in the pride of life as a believer, living in sin and thus carnal in the flesh.


A believer can commit an act of sin.....1jn1

a professed believer who can be said to "live in sin"...as a practice is a goat.

 

[DHK]

Doing things as a man pleaser is a sin is it for it is done in pride, thus this believers is living in the pride of life as a believer, living in sin and thus carnal in the flesh.


A believer can commit an act of sin.....1jn1

a professed believer who can be said to "live in sin"...as a practice is a goat.

Two thirds of all Christians live in sin through their sin of gluttony by the very fact that they are overweight and/or obese. They are carnal, love their sin of food and feeding the flesh. By your theology they are unsaved. Correct?

 

[revmwc]

Doing things as a man pleaser is a sin is it for it is done in pride, thus this believers is living in the pride of life as a believer, living in sin and thus carnal in the flesh.


A believer can commit an act of sin.....1jn1

a professed believer who can be said to "live in sin"...as a practice is a goat.

If that is the case as you say then Paul was wrong and no will be saved by fire because all will have a reward for works of intrinsic value.

The one who receives only wood, hay and stubble is clearly saved but has no eternal rewards. You say those are men pleasers that is they do out a desire for earthy recognition from men, the pride of life thus they are walking in sin and that is carnality, nothing else.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Where does it say we are saved from our sins?

Well why don't you look it up in your Bible and find out, and then report back to us?

 

[revmwc]

Well why don't you look it up in your Bible and find out, and then report back to us?

I already know where it says that, I'm wondering where I ask that question and the context of it. Could you provide page and thread number please.

 

[SovereignGrace]

•••Carnal faith
•••Carnal christianity


I am sensing a pattern here.

 

[revmwc]

Well why don't you look it up in your Bible and find out, and then report back to us?

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Is a good starting place.

then of we see:

2 Timothy 1:
8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Matthews 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

While this applies to Israel as a nation it also applies to all who receive Him as their savior.


And then of course we have

1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Now back to the OP question, Peter also states a beliver can be carnal although he does use those exact words he says thei:

2 Peter 2:

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

The carnal Christian has forgotten he was cleansed from sin. As the Greek word is translated here purged in the KJV interlinear uses cleansed.

 

[revmwc]

Romans 6:
verses 6-12 make it clear too we can slip back into sin.

6 This knowing that the old of us human was together impaled that may be being down un acted the body of the missing of the no not still to be slaving us to the missing.

Knowing that the old man was impaled that that the body of sin is not still enslaved to sin. Therefore we are not enslaved to sin but the Sin nature still exist in us.

7 The for one from dying has been justified from the missing.

We who have died with Christ have been justified from sin.

8 If yet we from died together to anointed we are believing that and we shall be together living with Him.

We who believe in the Anointed that is Jesus having died with Him we are believing that we will live together with Him,

9 Having perceived that anointed being roused out of dead ones not still is from dying death of Him not still is mastering.

We have perceived that is believed and know that the Anointed died and dies no more and that death no longer has Mastery over Him.

10 Who for from died to the missing from died on once who yet is living is living to the God.

Jesus Who died for the missing that is the sin died once and is living to the God

11 Thus and you be accounting slaves dead indeed to be to the missing living yet to the God in Anointed Jesus the Master of us.

We are to account ourselves slaves who are dead to sin and living yet to the God in The Anointed Jesus our Master.

12 No then let be reigning the missing in the dying of you body into the to be obeying to her in to the on feelings of it

Don't let sin to be reining in the dying body to be obeying her on feeling of it that is we should not be obeying the sin in our body.

13 No yet be ye beside standing up the members of you implements of un justness to the missing but beside stand ye selves to the God as out of dead ones living and the members of you implements of Justice to the God

We are not to be standing up our members to implement unjustness so that missing (sin) but we are to stand ourselves to God as being dead ones living and members of Justice to God.

14 missing for of you not shall be mastering not for ye are under law but under grace

Missing for we are not to allow sin to be mastering us for we are not under law but in the age of Grace.

15 Any then we shall be missing that not we are under law but under grace no may it be becoming.

Shall any of us missing that we are not under the law but under grace no it is not becoming us.

16 Not ye have perceived that to whom ye are beside standing up selves slaves into obedience slaves ye are to whom obeying or to the of missing into death or of obedience into justice.

We need to perceive that to whom we stand up ourselves become slaves obedient slaves either to missing which is death or of obedience to justice.

What we see in all this from the interlinear is that we can as believers choose to serve God or choose to serve sin (missing). If we choose to be slaves to missing we are dead to the benefits in time that God has to offer. He will not hear our prayers, He will not give us His blessings in fact He will chasten us as long as we stand in missing (sin).

Very clear a believer can be carnal in sin. That of course is not what god wants of us and thus Paul's warning to avoid it here.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I already know where it says that, I'm wondering where I ask that question and the context of it. Could you provide page and thread number please.

Post #146 on this thread about half way down. But you eventually got there.

Matthews 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.


While this applies to Israel as a nation it also applies to all who receive Him as their Saviour.

It applies to all those whom He will save, and, as I said, He saves His people from their sins, not in them.

You also wrote:

2 Peter 2:

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

The carnal Christian has forgotten he was cleansed from sin. As the Greek word is translated here purged in the KJV interlinear uses cleansed.

Actually, it's 2 Peter 1. Also, if the person described in verse 9 is saved, why does Peter urge his readers to make their calling and election sure by doing the things described in verses 5-7?

 

[DHK]

It applies to all those whom He will save, and, as I said, He saves His people from their sins, not in them.

There is no sinless perfection here.
"He shall save his people from his sins."

A.T. Robertson writes concerning this verse:

From their sins (apo tōn hamartiōn autōn). Both sins of omission and of commission. The substantive (hamartia) is from the verb (hamartanein) and means missing the mark as with an arrow. How often the best of us fall short and fail to score. Jesus will save us away from (apo) as well as out of (ex) our sins. They will be cast into oblivion and he will cover them up out of sight.

The thought is the same elsewhere. When one is saved their sins are forgiven: past, present and future.

It is not the same ministry of John the Baptist whose ministry was one of repentance. "Repent of your sins." He wanted to see fruit of repentance before he would baptize them.

Here Christ forgives us all our sins. That may or may not be evident in the believer's life immediately afterward.

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

Monster strawman alert!!!

In post 122 you offered this from some health place;

67% of all Americans are overweight if not obese

1] it is speaking of all americans...saved/ unsaved

2] it speaks of some being overweight

3] it speaks of some being obese

So it no where says it is 67% of "all Christians"......all americans are not Christian:wavey:

Two thirds of all Christians live in sin through their sin of gluttony by the very fact that they are overweight and/or obese.

So now you mis-quote your own quote:laugh: you consign them all to the sin of gluttony:laugh:

This is an example of how you take an idea and distort it just to erect your carnal strawman.:thumbs:

They are carnal, love their sin of food and feeding the flesh. By your theology they are unsaved. Correct?

By the teaching of scripture...anyone who is kata sarka...under the dominion of the flesh is not God's child....
Everyone who is kata pneuma...under the dominion of the Spirit is God's child.

 

[DHK]

DHK

Monster strawman alert!!!

There is no strawman; only facts.

In post 122 you offered this from some health place;

The U.S. National Health Institute.

1] it is speaking of all americans...saved/ unsaved

2] it speaks of some being overweight

3] it speaks of some being obese

So it no where says it is 67% of "all Christians"......all americans are not Christian

When such a large number of the population of America is involved: two out of every three people, they are not simply all the unsaved. Common sense tells you that. The unsaved do not have eating habits that are not that much different than the saved. In fact many of them are better. Many of them are involved in athletics compared to Christians, for example.
Take any professional sport. What is the percentage of Christians vs. the unregenerate.
It is you that has come up with a super strawman here in trying to refute my post. You are allowing your bias to blind actual facts. It is as if you can blindly say that overweight and obesity is not a problem among Christians simply because they are regenerated. Don't lie. You know better than that.

So now you mis-quote your own quote: you consign them all to the sin of gluttony:

This is an example of how you take an idea and distort it just to erect your carnal strawman.

2/3 means two thirds. Two thirds of all Americans
--Hispanic, white, black, etc.
--2/3 of Mormons, J.W.'s Baptists, Alliance, etc.
2/3 of all Americans are overweight. The facts don't lie. Yes, Gluttony is a sin, and Americans enjoy their food no matter what their ethnicity is, not matter what their religion is. Are you being a racist Icon? Prejudiced in some way?

By the teaching of scripture...anyone who is kata sarka...under the dominion of the flesh is not God's child....
Everyone who is kata pneuma...under the dominion of the Spirit is God's child.

Are you overweight?
Sensitive topic isn't it? All those who pursue in their ungodly eating habits, keep gaining weight. They are not taking care of the body God has given them. They commit the sin of gluttony. They live according to the flesh--under the dominion of sin. Your conclusion--not saved.

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

There is no strawman; only facts.

:laugh:
.

Are you being a racist Icon? Prejudiced in some way?

:laugh:

This is the same garbage you do all the time:laugh:

I said nothing about race at all:thumbs:

This garbage came out of your mind and you try and inflict it upon me.

Your carnal reasoning is exposed again.

By the teaching of scripture...anyone who is kata sarka...under the dominion of the flesh is not God's child....
Everyone who is kata pneuma...under the dominion of the Spirit is God's child.

 

[SovereignGrace]

God did not save someone, anyone, so that they could revert back to their previous sinful lifestyle and still be His. We have been called out of the world to live Godly, not to go back to eating slop.