SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Jesus Christ is UNIQUE, One of a Kind, as there is NONE that we can compare with Him!
Do you not believe this?
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Is Creation BY or THROUGH Jesus Christ?
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Jesus Christ is UNIQUE, One of a Kind, as there is NONE that we can compare with Him!
Do you not believe this?
I do.
He is the only natural born conceived by God who is God.
The greek and roman culture had many god/human beings they worshiped, but the Lord Jesus (unlike the greek and roman gods) was fully God and fully human.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
is this the Incarnation, or from all eternity past, as in "eternal generation"?
For the casual reader of the BB who may not know the difference between the two terms.
The "eternal generation" is the view that the Father (God) who is the eternal one begat the Son through Mary.
The "incarnation" is the view that the Son (God) who was always a part of the trinity as fully God as the Father and Spirit, took on the physical attributes of being fully human form from birth to death.
I do not find "eternal generation" consistent with the balance of Scriptures.
John 1 states that "In the beginning was the Logos" and that everything was created by the Logos. Logos is both the thought and the word from that thought. It is impossible for God to be without either.
Everyone's thoughts
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God; this one was in the beginning with God; John 1:1,2
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
upon hope of life age-during, which God, who doth not lie, did promise before times of ages,
The Word that was made flesh, was it the conceptions and thoughts of God. The Word was with God and the Word was God.
Now when the Word made flesh, Jesus, gave his life, when he died for our sins, did he really give his, life, did he really. die, in our stead? Why was he made, flesh? Why was he made a little lower than the angels?
Expound upon the following verses relative to the Word made flesh, Jesus? Was the Father necessary to the future of the Son?
who in the days of his flesh both prayers and supplications unto Him who was able to save him from death -- with strong crying and tears -- having offered up, and having been heard in respect to that which he feared, through being a Son, did learn by the things which he suffered -- the obedience, Heb 5:7,8
and if the Spirit of Him who did raise up Jesus out of the dead doth dwell in you, He who did raise up the Christ out of the dead shall quicken also your dying bodies, through His Spirit dwelling in you Rom 8:11
Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;
Was the Father necessary to the future of the Son?
knowing that Christ, having been raised up out of the dead, doth no more die, death over him hath no more lordship;
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God; this one was in the beginning with God; John 1:1,2
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
- of speech
- a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea
- what someone has said
- a word
- the sayings of God
- decree, mandate or order
- of the moral precepts given by God
- Old Testament prophecy given by the prophets
- what is declared, a thought, declaration, aphorism, a weighty saying, a dictum, a maxim
- a word
- a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea
upon hope of life age-during, which God, who doth not lie, did promise before times of ages,
The Word that was made flesh, was it the conceptions and thoughts of God. The Word was with God and the Word was God.
Now when the Word made flesh, Jesus, gave his life, when he died for our sins, did he really give his, life, did he really. die, in our stead? Why was he made, flesh? Why was he made a little lower than the angels?
Expound upon the following verses relative to the Word made flesh, Jesus? Was the Father necessary to the future of the Son?
who in the days of his flesh both prayers and supplications unto Him who was able to save him from death -- with strong crying and tears -- having offered up, and having been heard in respect to that which he feared, through being a Son, did learn by the things which he suffered -- the obedience, Heb 5:7,8
and if the Spirit of Him who did raise up Jesus out of the dead doth dwell in you, He who did raise up the Christ out of the dead shall quicken also your dying bodies, through His Spirit dwelling in you Rom 8:11
Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;
Was the Father necessary to the future of the Son?
knowing that Christ, having been raised up out of the dead, doth no more die, death over him hath no more lordship;
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Not so. the "eternal generation" , of Jesus Christ, is not when the Father begat Jesus Christ through Mary. In the first place, it is the Holy Spirit Who "begat" Jesus Christ in Mary, and not the Father. Secondly, this term refers to God the Father, from eternity past, "begatting" the Divine Nature of Jesus Christ, as in "God out of God", as the Creeds wrongly teach.
Jesus Christ, the Eternal God, took upon Himself "human nature" at His Conception in Mary, thereby becoming Consubstantial with us humans. He is The God-Man, fully God and fully Man, except from any sin in His human nature. This nature is what He also has now in heaven, and was not "destroyed" at Jesus' Death.
I don't understand what you mean by, "Logos is both the thought and the word from that thought. It is impossible for God to be without either", as it sounds like the Logos is impersonal?
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
this sounds like creeping Subordinationism!
What does, τὸν μονογενῆ, modify?
Son?
In what manner, son and or SON in the original Greek?
How was the Word made flesh?
Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: 2 Tim 2:8
How did, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God," manifest in the flesh?
But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Matt 1:20,23
You can sub if you want to, personally I believe the Son to be equal to the Father.
Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; John 5:26
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
I believe that the Original reading of John 1:18, that the Apostle John Wrote, is "Θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε· μονογενὴς θεὸς ὁ ὢν είς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ πατρὸς ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο". This was corrupted to, "μονογενης υιος".
Jesus Christ is the Eternal God, as are the Father and Holy Spirit. There is no difference to either Person in the Eternal Godhead. At His Incarnation (Conception) in the Virgin Mary, Jesus Christ, the Second Person (used for distinction and not because He is any lesser than the Father), took upon Himself fully human nature, like us, with the exception of sin. Thereby becoming The God-Man.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Both verses that you refer to, are only for the Incarnate Jesus Christ, and have nothing to do with the Persons in the Eternal Godhead.
1). The Scriptures teach, “The angel replied, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the Holy One to be bornd will be called the Son of God.
The whole trinity was involved.
2. I agree with your presentation of the Christ, however, He does not have that same nature, for He is now glorified again.
3. How much more personal is one then their thoughts and words?
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Does it not say in Acts 1:11, "Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven"?
Jesus Christ Ascended into Heaven in a physical Body, which is the SAME way that He is Coming back. The Second Coming of Jesus Christ is a visible Event, "Behold, He Cometh with clouds; and every eye shall SEE Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen" (Rev. 1:7)
Well I was ref. μονογενὴς from John 3:16 where it modifies son.
In John 1:18 I wonder if, which is in the bosom of the Father, is relative to the conversation?
I actually, wonder, I'm not just saying that.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
The meaing of John 3:16, when μονογενης is used for Jesus Christ, is the same in the other places where used for Him.
The IS in 1:18, is ων, which is in the ever-present, showing the eternal Relationship between the Father and Jesus Christ
the creeds were written to combat Arianism, so their wording indeed affirmed jesus was eternal God!
Being the ONLY begotten indeed makes Him unique!
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
the only "begetting" of Jesus Christ was in the womb of the Virgin Mary
37818
Well-Known Member
The creed is still wrong. It does not actually acknowledge the Son to be uncaused. Or to be the true Light and Creator. [John 1:3. John 1:9-10 ]
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
This does NOT affirm that Jesus Christ is the Eternal God, but that Jesus Christ is eternally subordinate to the Father in the Godhead:
Καὶ εἰς ἕνα Κύριον Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν, τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦ Θεοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ, τὸν ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς γεννηθέντα πρὸ πάντων τῶν αἰώνων· φῶς ἐκ φωτός, Θεὸν ἀληθινὸν ἐκ Θεοῦ ἀληθινοῦ, γεννηθέντα οὐ ποιηθέντα, ὁμοούσιον τῷ Πατρί, δι' οὗ τὰ πάντα ἐγένετο, from the Nicene Creed
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the begotten of God the Father, the Only-begotten, that is out of the essence of the Father.
God out of God, Light out of Light, true God out of true God, begotten and not made; of the very same nature of the Father, by Whom all things came into being, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible
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