Is Creation BY or THROUGH Jesus Christ?

[Salty]

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[SavedByGrace]

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Oh no

 

[JesusFan]

the only "begetting" of Jesus Christ was in the womb of the Virgin Mary

What is it about begotten that you recoil so much about, as that term just means Jesus is eternal, not a created being?

 

[JesusFan]

The creed is still wrong. It does not actually acknowledge the Son to be uncaused. Or to be the true Light and Creator. [John 1:3. John 1:9-10 ]

It was not inspired, no creed or confession ever was, but they chose their term to refute Arinaism!

 

[JesusFan]

This does NOT affirm that Jesus Christ is the Eternal God, but that Jesus Christ is eternally subordinate to the Father in the Godhead:

Καὶ εἰς ἕνα Κύριον Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν, τὸν Υἱὸν τοῦ Θεοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ, τὸν ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς γεννηθέντα πρὸ πάντων τῶν αἰώνων· φῶς ἐκ φωτός, Θεὸν ἀληθινὸν ἐκ Θεοῦ ἀληθινοῦ, γεννηθέντα οὐ ποιηθέντα, ὁμοούσιον τῷ Πατρί, δι' οὗ τὰ πάντα ἐγένετο, from the Nicene Creed

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the begotten of God the Father, the Only-begotten, that is out of the essence of the Father.

God out of God, Light out of Light, true God out of true God, begotten and not made; of the very same nature of the Father, by Whom all things came into being, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible

I do not see subordination here, but an affirmation of the full deity of Jesus!

 

[SavedByGrace]

What is it about begotten that you recoil so much about, as that term just means Jesus is eternal, not a created being?

the Greek μονογενὴς does not mean BEGOTTEN. But, ONE OF A KIND, UNIQUE

 

[SavedByGrace]

I do not see subordination here, but an affirmation of the full deity of Jesus!

the use of the Greek preposition, ἐκ, is used with the meaning, "out of", as "coming from the source". When it says, "Θεὸν ἀληθινὸν ἐκ Θεοῦ ἀληθινοῦ", it means that Jesus Christ is "true God" as DERIVED from the Father, and not in and of Himself. This is subordinationism, where the Father is the "source" of the Deity of Jesus Christ, which is RANK HERESY!

 

[Salty]

the Greek μονογενὴς does not mean BEGOTTEN. But, ONE OF A KIND, UNIQUE

G3439 - monogenēs - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

 

[SavedByGrace]

G3439 - monogenēs - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

it is a compound word in the Greek μονογενὴς, from μόνος, "only" and γένος "kind", or, "of a single kind", also, "unique".

If John meant "only-begotten", the he would have used the correct Greek word, which is, “μονογέννητος”; but he uses
“μονογενὴς”, which never means BEGETTING. Regardless of Strong, who, like the KJV and others, are confused by the change by Jerome, from the Old Latin,"unicus (unique)", to "unigenitus (only-begotten)"

 

[JesusFan]

it is a compound word in the Greek μονογενὴς, from μόνος, "only" and γένος "kind", or, "of a single kind", also, "unique".

If John meant "only-begotten", the he would have used the correct Greek word, which is, “μονογέννητος”; but he uses
“μονογενὴς”, which never means BEGETTING. Regardless of Strong, who, like the KJV and others, are confused by the change by Jerome, from the Old Latin,"unicus (unique)", to "unigenitus (only-begotten)"

Is there any one else eternally begotten, as would that not indeed make Jesus unique and one of a kind?

 

[percho]

it is a compound word in the Greek μονογενὴς, from μόνος, "only" and γένος "kind", or, "of a single kind", also, "unique".

If John meant "only-begotten", the he would have used the correct Greek word, which is, “μονογέννητος”; but he uses
“μονογενὴς”, which never means BEGETTING. Regardless of Strong, who, like the KJV and others, are confused by the change by Jerome, from the Old Latin,"unicus (unique)", to "unigenitus (only-begotten)"

One of a kind, μονογενὴς, I agree, now what does son mean? Is it a relative, word, relative in what manner?

Example:

So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him,
Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

How are the underlines words relative one to another? What does the word, begotten, mean in this statement?

See Part 2

 

[SavedByGrace]

Is there any one else eternally begotten, as would that not indeed make Jesus unique and one of a kind?

Why are you hung up on BEGOTTEN?

 

[JesusFan]

the use of the Greek preposition, ἐκ, is used with the meaning, "out of", as "coming from the source". When it says, "Θεὸν ἀληθινὸν ἐκ Θεοῦ ἀληθινοῦ", it means that Jesus Christ is "true God" as DERIVED from the Father, and not in and of Himself. This is subordinationism, where the Father is the "source" of the Deity of Jesus Christ, which is RANK HERESY!

Why are you hung up on BEGOTTEN?

Why is it so bad to you?

 

[SavedByGrace]

Why is it so bad to you?

Simply because people misunderstand what it actually means and therefore misuse it

 

[agedman]

it is a compound word in the Greek μονογενὴς, from μόνος, "only" and γένος "kind", or, "of a single kind", also, "unique".

If John meant "only-begotten", the he would have used the correct Greek word, which is, “μονογέννητος”; but he uses
“μονογενὴς”, which never means BEGETTING. Regardless of Strong, who, like the KJV and others, are confused by the change by Jerome, from the Old Latin,"unicus (unique)", to "unigenitus (only-begotten)"

Are you presenting that the KJV is not reliable?

Actually, "unique" fits quite well and is used in Isaiah when it says of God, "...there is none like me..."

 

[SavedByGrace]

Are you presenting that the KJV is not reliable?

Actually, "unique" fits quite well and is used in Isaiah when it says of God, "...there is none like me..."

The KJV and any other translation that uses only begotten are wrong. The Greek does not support their rendering

 

[Salty]

Why are you hung up on BEGOTTEN?

Well, "begotten" is not normally used in everyday English -
According to MR. Webster - it was first used in 14th century, in the meaning defined above

 

[SavedByGrace]

Well, "begotten" is not normally used in everyday English -
According to MR. Webster - it was first used in 14th century, in the meaning defined above

The Greek word has nothing to do with BIRTH or anything like that

 

[agedman]

Well, "begotten" is not normally used in everyday English -
According to MR. Webster - it was first used in 14th century, in the meaning defined above

I wonder how close the 14th century English is to Ebonics?

 

[agedman]

The Greek word has nothing to do with BIRTH or anything like that

monogenés

Mono - one

Genos - only offspring.

Yep, seems like it is related to birth in some genetic manner. How else are genes of two made into one?