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Featured Is Creation BY or THROUGH Jesus Christ?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Jan 14, 2022.

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  1. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Six hour warning
    This thread will be closed no sooner than 8 pm EST / 5 pm PST
     
    #141 Salty, Jan 19, 2022
  2. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Oh no
     
    #142 SavedByGrace, Jan 19, 2022
  3. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    What is it about begotten that you recoil so much about, as that term just means Jesus is eternal, not a created being?
     
    #143 JesusFan, Jan 19, 2022
  4. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    It was not inspired, no creed or confession ever was, but they chose their term to refute Arinaism!
     
    #144 JesusFan, Jan 19, 2022
  5. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    I do not see subordination here, but an affirmation of the full deity of Jesus!
     
    #145 JesusFan, Jan 19, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    the Greek μονογενὴς does not mean BEGOTTEN. But, ONE OF A KIND, UNIQUE
     
    #146 SavedByGrace, Jan 19, 2022
  7. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    the use of the Greek preposition, ἐκ, is used with the meaning, "out of", as "coming from the source". When it says, "Θεὸν ἀληθινὸν ἐκ Θεοῦ ἀληθινοῦ", it means that Jesus Christ is "true God" as DERIVED from the Father, and not in and of Himself. This is subordinationism, where the Father is the "source" of the Deity of Jesus Christ, which is RANK HERESY!
     
    #147 SavedByGrace, Jan 19, 2022
  8. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    #148 Salty, Jan 19, 2022
    • Useful Useful x 1
  9. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    it is a compound word in the Greek μονογενὴς, from μόνος, "only" and γένος "kind", or, "of a single kind", also, "unique".

    If John meant "only-begotten", the he would have used the correct Greek word, which is, “μονογέννητος”; but he uses
    “μονογενὴς”, which never means BEGETTING. Regardless of Strong, who, like the KJV and others, are confused by the change by Jerome, from the Old Latin,"unicus (unique)", to "unigenitus (only-begotten)"
     
    #149 SavedByGrace, Jan 19, 2022
  10. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Is there any one else eternally begotten, as would that not indeed make Jesus unique and one of a kind?
     
    #150 JesusFan, Jan 19, 2022
    • Winner Winner x 1
  11. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    One of a kind, μονογενὴς, I agree, now what does son mean? Is it a relative, word, relative in what manner?

    Example:

    So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him,
    Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

    How are the underlines words relative one to another? What does the word, begotten, mean in this statement?

    See Part 2
     
    #151 percho, Jan 19, 2022
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  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Why are you hung up on BEGOTTEN?
     
    #152 SavedByGrace, Jan 19, 2022
  13. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Why is it so bad to you?
     
    #153 JesusFan, Jan 19, 2022
  14. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Simply because people misunderstand what it actually means and therefore misuse it
     
    #154 SavedByGrace, Jan 19, 2022
  15. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Are you presenting that the KJV is not reliable? :)

    Actually, "unique" fits quite well and is used in Isaiah when it says of God, "...there is none like me..."
     
    #155 agedman, Jan 19, 2022
  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    The KJV and any other translation that uses only begotten are wrong. The Greek does not support their rendering
     
    #156 SavedByGrace, Jan 19, 2022
  17. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Well, "begotten" is not normally used in everyday English -
    According to MR. Webster - it was first used in 14th century, in the meaning defined above
     
    #157 Salty, Jan 19, 2022
    • Informative Informative x 1
  18. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    The Greek word has nothing to do with BIRTH or anything like that
     
    #158 SavedByGrace, Jan 19, 2022
  19. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    I wonder how close the 14th century English is to Ebonics?
     
    #159 agedman, Jan 19, 2022
  20. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    monogenés

    Mono - one

    Genos - only offspring.

    Yep, seems like it is related to birth in some genetic manner. How else are genes of two made into one?
     
    #160 agedman, Jan 19, 2022
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