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Featured Is Creation BY or THROUGH Jesus Christ?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Jan 14, 2022.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Note the change of subject to the character and qualifications of the opponent? One fallacious argument after another.

    The second person of the Trinity, before the incarnation, was sent by the Father.

    1John 4:9
    By this the love of God was revealed in us, that God has sent His only Son into the world so that we may live through Him.
     
    #81 Van, Jan 16, 2022
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  2. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    do you believe in the eternal subordination of Jesus Christ to the Father, in the Godhead?
     
    #82 SavedByGrace, Jan 17, 2022
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  3. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    I went. I saw no rebuttal.
     
    #83 Aaron, Jan 17, 2022
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  4. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Jesus Christ Speaks in Isaiah 48 as YHWH. And says that "YHWH Adoni" is sendind Him and the Spirit.

    2 Samuel 23:2, clearly shows that "The Spirit of YHWH", is Himself YHWH.

    We have THREE distinct Persons Who are called YHWH!

    Here is the Biblical rebuttal.
     
    #84 SavedByGrace, Jan 17, 2022
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  5. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Jesus was and is Not the father, as that would be Oneness heresy!
     
    #85 JesusFan, Jan 18, 2022
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  6. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Jesus was stating there that when you see Him, see his works and words and deeds, you are seeing what the father himself would be, as both are equally Yahweh!
     
    #86 JesusFan, Jan 18, 2022
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  7. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, Jesus was saying to Philip, that His own Authority is 100% EQUAL to the Father, as He also says in John 10:28-30.
     
    #87 SavedByGrace, Jan 18, 2022
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  8. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    There is One God in three persons.

    To deny what Jesus said is to place Jesus as not coequal with the full glory of and authority of God.

    For a time, the Lord Jesus Christ set aside His Glory and took the form of humankind. However, at no time was the Christ any less God or any less human.

    The obedience to the Father may suggest to some that Christ was in some manner subject to the Father. Not true, but being in Human form, He brought all aspects of the human under the authority of the Father, just as we must. Such was a demonstration to those who would follow Him. Submission then glorification.
     
    #88 agedman, Jan 18, 2022
  9. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Yes, as he is the visible image of the invisible God, so Jesus was saying and doing same things as His father would be about doing!
     
    #89 JesusFan, Jan 18, 2022
  10. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Jesus was and is fully equal to the father, but there are not the same person!
     
    #90 JesusFan, Jan 18, 2022
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  11. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Yo did seem to be saying that Jesus was the father in human form among them
     
    #91 JesusFan, Jan 18, 2022
  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    John 5:16-18

    And therefore the Jews persecuted Jesus and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, My Father works until now, and I work. Then, because of this, the Jews sought the more to kill Him, because He not only had broken the sabbath, but also said that God was His father, making Himself equal with God
     
    #92 SavedByGrace, Jan 18, 2022
  13. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Only during the time while Jesus agreed to accept limitations imposed upon him in the Incarnation
     
    #93 JesusFan, Jan 18, 2022
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  14. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    No, Jesus is God, just as the Spirit and Father are God.
     
    #94 agedman, Jan 18, 2022
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  15. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Nothing was "imposed" on Jesus by the Father, as Paul says in Philippians 2:7, "ἀλλὰ ἑαυτὸν ἐκένωσεν" (Jesus emptied Himself), or as Weymouth rightly says in his NT, "He stripped Himself of His glory"
     
    #95 SavedByGrace, Jan 18, 2022
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  16. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Van, this verse refers to the One God, not the Father.

    Indeed, the Lord Jesus Christ humbled Himself, the Father did not humble Him.
     
    #96 agedman, Jan 18, 2022
  17. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Just as I indicated to van in post 96.
     
    #97 agedman, Jan 18, 2022
  18. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    the fact that it says that "God has sent His only Son into the world", this can only mean here, that GOD is the Father
     
    #98 SavedByGrace, Jan 18, 2022
  19. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Confused
     
    #99 SavedByGrace, Jan 18, 2022
  20. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    “Theos” is God.
    “Abba” is Father.

    Abba is only occasionally used in comparison to Theos.

    The trinity agreed together and the Son was birthed. The trinity continued even when the Son took on human covering.

    Note: I understand and have taught concerning the “eternal sonship;” however, the OT presentations of the Lord do not readily lend themselves to a Father Son relationship.

    I will not strive for or against the thinking.
     
    #100 agedman, Jan 18, 2022
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