Is Creation BY or THROUGH Jesus Christ?

[Van]

WHEN will you ever learn about the Incarnation???

Note the change of subject to the character and qualifications of the opponent? One fallacious argument after another.

The second person of the Trinity, before the incarnation, was sent by the Father.

1John 4:9
By this the love of God was revealed in us, that God has sent His only Son into the world so that we may live through Him.

 

[SavedByGrace]

The second person of the Trinity, before the incarnation, was sent by the Father

do you believe in the eternal subordination of Jesus Christ to the Father, in the Godhead?

 

[Aaron]

see #76

I went. I saw no rebuttal.

 

[SavedByGrace]

I went. I saw no rebuttal.

Jesus Christ Speaks in Isaiah 48 as YHWH. And says that "YHWH Adoni" is sendind Him and the Spirit.

2 Samuel 23:2, clearly shows that "The Spirit of YHWH", is Himself YHWH.

We have THREE distinct Persons Who are called YHWH!

Here is the Biblical rebuttal.

 

[JesusFan]

Do you refute the quote from Scripture as being inaccurate?

Jesus says to him, "Am I with you so long a time, and you have not known Me, Philip? The one having seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?​

Jesus was and is Not the father, as that would be Oneness heresy!

 

[JesusFan]

it is your understanding of the Scriptures that is wrong. Are you saying that Jesus Christ is the Father? Are you saying that God the Father was born from Mary? Are you saying that God the Father died on the cross?

Jesus is refuting Philip, who supposed that the Father is somehow greater than Himself, and Jesus goes on to show their essential unity as in the Godhead, "Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in Me? The Words that I speak to you I do not speak of Myself, but the Father who dwells in Me, He does the works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the very works themselves." (John 14:10-11)

Not that Jesus Christ is the identical Person as the Father, but their esential unity. Otherwise you are guilty of Unitarianism!

Jesus was stating there that when you see Him, see his works and words and deeds, you are seeing what the father himself would be, as both are equally Yahweh!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Jesus was stating there that when you see Him, see his works and words and deeds, you are seeing what the father himself would be, as both are equally Yahweh!

Indeed, Jesus was saying to Philip, that His own Authority is 100% EQUAL to the Father, as He also says in John 10:28-30.

 

[agedman]

Jesus was and is Not the father, as that would be Oneness heresy!

There is One God in three persons.

To deny what Jesus said is to place Jesus as not coequal with the full glory of and authority of God.

For a time, the Lord Jesus Christ set aside His Glory and took the form of humankind. However, at no time was the Christ any less God or any less human.

The obedience to the Father may suggest to some that Christ was in some manner subject to the Father. Not true, but being in Human form, He brought all aspects of the human under the authority of the Father, just as we must. Such was a demonstration to those who would follow Him. Submission then glorification.

 

[JesusFan]

Indeed, Jesus was saying to Philip, that His own Authority is 100% EQUAL to the Father, as He also says in John 10:28-30.

Yes, as he is the visible image of the invisible God, so Jesus was saying and doing same things as His father would be about doing!

 

[JesusFan]

There is One God in three persons.

To deny what Jesus said is to place Jesus as not coequal with the full glory of and authority of God.

For a time, the Lord Jesus Christ set aside His Glory and took the form of humankind. However, at no time was the Christ any less God or any less human.

The obedience to the Father may suggest to some that Christ was in some manner subject to the Father. Not true, but being in Human form, He brought all aspects of the human under the authority of the Father, just as we must. Such was a demonstration to those who would follow Him. Submission then glorification.

Jesus was and is fully equal to the father, but there are not the same person!

 

[JesusFan]

There is One God in three persons.

To deny what Jesus said is to place Jesus as not coequal with the full glory of and authority of God.

For a time, the Lord Jesus Christ set aside His Glory and took the form of humankind. However, at no time was the Christ any less God or any less human.

The obedience to the Father may suggest to some that Christ was in some manner subject to the Father. Not true, but being in Human form, He brought all aspects of the human under the authority of the Father, just as we must. Such was a demonstration to those who would follow Him. Submission then glorification.

Yo did seem to be saying that Jesus was the father in human form among them

 

[SavedByGrace]

Yes, as he is the visible image of the invisible God, so Jesus was saying and doing same things as His father would be about doing!

John 5:16-18

And therefore the Jews persecuted Jesus and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, My Father works until now, and I work. Then, because of this, the Jews sought the more to kill Him, because He not only had broken the sabbath, but also said that God was His father, making Himself equal with God

 

[JesusFan]

do you believe in the eternal subordination of Jesus Christ to the Father, in the Godhead?

Only during the time while Jesus agreed to accept limitations imposed upon him in the Incarnation

 

[agedman]

Yo did seem to be saying that Jesus was the father in human form among them

No, Jesus is God, just as the Spirit and Father are God.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Only during the time while Jesus agreed to accept limitations imposed upon him in the Incarnation

Nothing was "imposed" on Jesus by the Father, as Paul says in Philippians 2:7, "ἀλλὰ ἑαυτὸν ἐκένωσεν" (Jesus emptied Himself), or as Weymouth rightly says in his NT, "He stripped Himself of His glory"

 

[agedman]

Note the change of subject to the character and qualifications of the opponent? One fallacious argument after another.

The second person of the Trinity, before the incarnation, was sent by the Father.

1John 4:9
By this the love of God was revealed in us, that God has sent His only Son into the world so that we may live through Him.

Van, this verse refers to the One God, not the Father.

Indeed, the Lord Jesus Christ humbled Himself, the Father did not humble Him.

 

[agedman]

Nothing was "imposed" on Jesus by the Father, as Paul says in Philippians 2:7, "ἀλλὰ ἑαυτὸν ἐκένωσεν" (Jesus emptied Himself), or as Weymouth rightly says in his NT, "He stripped Himself of His glory"

Just as I indicated to van in post 96.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Van, this verse refers to the One God, not the Father.

Indeed, the Lord Jesus Christ humbled Himself, the Father did not humble Him.

the fact that it says that "God has sent His only Son into the world", this can only mean here, that GOD is the Father

 

[SavedByGrace]

Just as I indicated to van in post 96.

 

[agedman]

the fact that it says that "God has sent His only Son into the world", this can only mean here, that GOD is the Father

“Theos” is God.
“Abba” is Father.

Abba is only occasionally used in comparison to Theos.

The trinity agreed together and the Son was birthed. The trinity continued even when the Son took on human covering.

Note: I understand and have taught concerning the “eternal sonship;” however, the OT presentations of the Lord do not readily lend themselves to a Father Son relationship.

I will not strive for or against the thinking.