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Is divorce a theological issue

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Salty

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
Dave Gilbert said:
Divorce and re-marriage is a very difficult area that has point-blank commandment from the Lord for believers, as I see it.
Remain single, or reconcile to the spouse.

Question:
How can a man who is unable to reconcile with his wife or unable to discipline his own children and keep them from being unruly, serve the house of God as a pastor or deacon, watching over God's flock?

For the man who divorced and then remarried either before or after believing on Christ, I think this should also apply.
He must be the husband of one wife.
Click to expand...

So if a woman divorces her husband - and remarries another man -
does her first husband have any recourse.

Lets take this a step further - Tom and Betty a childless couple divorce - they both re-marry and each have children with their second spouse.
After a salvation experience - they (individually) have been counseled that the marriage bond is with the first marriage.

Should Tom and Betty divorce their current spouse and re-marry?




Dave Gilbert said:
This does not disqualify him from being a teacher or encouraging others with other gifts...
Click to expand...

Some churches would not allow a divorce person to lead teenagers - do they have a point there
 
Mikey

Mikey

Active Member
Dave Gilbert said:
It's not the unpardonable sin.
All of a believer's sins were paid for on the cross.

However, being cleansed does not give believers an occasion to the flesh.
Marriage is a picture of God's covenants, and He doesn't break covenants...men do.
That was why Moses gave the writing of divorce...because of man's hard-heartedness, not God's.

Divorce and re-marriage is a very difficult area that has point-blank commandment from the Lord for believers, as I see it.
Remain single, or reconcile to the spouse.


For those who go farther, there is always forgiveness; but from my perspective, any man who divorces and re-marries is automatically disqualified to be a pastor or a deacon in the "office" sense, because they've had more than one wife.
It's about being above reproach outwardly, as well as demonstrating that he can run his own house well.

Want to learn how to deal with two personalities that may rub against one another and start a fire?
Get stuck in a situation that demands it. ;)
It gives good experience for running the house of God, in my estimation.

Question:
How can a man who is unable to reconcile with his wife or unable to discipline his own children and keep them from being unruly, serve the house of God as a pastor or deacon, watching over God's flock?

Answer:
He cannot.

For the man who divorced and then remarried either before or after believing on Christ, I think this should also apply.
He must be the husband of one wife.

That is what I see in the language.

This does not disqualify him from being a teacher or encouraging others with other gifts...just from serving as an overseer/shepherd over God's flock, or from being a deacon.


May God bless you.
Click to expand...

"husband of one wife" has different interpretations. why do you take it meaning against remarriage once divorced rather than against polygamy, that a man cannot be a pastor if he has multiple wives?

you've mentioned before that death allows them to remarry. but would your interpretation "man of one wife" be against a pastor from remarrying after his spouse has died for he would have had two wives?
 
Dave G

Dave G

Well-Known Member
Salty said:
So if a woman divorces her husband - and remarries another man -
does her first husband have any recourse.

Lets take this a step further - Tom and Betty a childless couple divorce - they both re-marry and each have children with their second spouse.
After a salvation experience - they (individually) have been counseled that the marriage bond is with the first marriage.

Should Tom and Betty divorce their current spouse and re-marry?
Click to expand...

Tough questions.
Marriage, in the eyes of God, is with the first marriage bond.
It's always difficult to obey God rather than men.

God has forgiven their sins by the blood of His Son.
Whatever they do, they should seek the Lord's will.
 
Dave G

Dave G

Well-Known Member
Mikey said:
husband of one wife" has different interpretations. why do you take it meaning against remarriage once divorced rather than against polygamy, that a man cannot be a pastor if he has multiple wives?
Click to expand...

I'm aware of the "different interpretations".;)
God wants His pastors to be above reproach.

One wife, not an adulterer according to the Law:

" Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to [her] husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of [her] husband.
3 So then if, while [her] husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man." ( Romans 7:1-3 )

To me, this passage is "reciprocal", in that it's speaking about a woman, but it applies equally to a man.


Also, death dissolves the marriage.

" The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord." ( 1 Corinthians 7:39 )

Looking in the "big picture", I take it against polygamy, because marriage is between one man and one woman for life.
God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Eve and Sarah and Elizabeth.

According to God's word, a man can only have one wife and be a pastor or deacon ( 1 Timothy 3:1-13 ).
If a man's original wife is still alive, and he marries another, then he is now the husband of two wives ( that's what makes it adultery, having relations with another woman when he's still married in God's eyes to the first woman )...until either the first or second dies.
He then reverts to being the husband of one wife.

Divorce in man's eyes does not annul the marriage...the only way a marriage is not a marriage, is if it has not been consummated.
Then it can be annulled.
In God's eyes, marriage occurs when a man and woman "know each other"...when a man "takes" a woman as his wife ( Genesis 24:67 )...not when a ceremony takes place.

With all that said,
How can a man be a pastor or deacon and obey God's commandment if they are divorced and the original spouse is still alive?
I would say that he cannot.


But one thing I can tell you historically...

I think you'd be hard-pressed to find the pastors of 100-300 years ago as being anything but once-married or widowed and re-married.
That is the way it was treated.
I think that we as believers treat marriage and divorce today far too casually...it's a serious and life-long commitment for two people who are supposed to love each other until death.

That is what I hold to.

As for divorce and holding any other office or gift in the church...I would say it's OK if a man that was divorced was a teacher or was involved in some way with edifying his brothers and sisters...just not as an elder or deacon.

I think part of the confusion here might be in our modern definition of "pastor", which is a "super Christian" who does everything.
Christ's churches have a multiplicity of elders, deacons and so forth.
One can teach, one preaches, one pastors ( oversees ), one is a deacon ( helps the church in real-world ways ), etc ( Ephesians 4:11-16 ).

I see God's offices ( pastor / elder and deacon ) as being reserved for the most humble of servants, and the most obedient.


May God bless you sir.:)
 
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Mikey

Mikey

Active Member
Dave Gilbert said:
.
Click to expand...

How would you deal with this scenario? A man has many wives (polygamy is legal) and converts. Is he to divorc
Dave Gilbert said:
I'm aware of the "different interpretations".;)
God wants His pastors to be above reproach.

One wife, not an adulterer according to the Law:

" Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to [her] husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of [her] husband.
3 So then if, while [her] husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man." ( Romans 7:1-3 )

To me, this passage is "reciprocal", in that it's speaking about a woman, but it applies equally to a man.


Also, death dissolves the marriage.

" The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord." ( 1 Corinthians 7:39 )

Looking in the "big picture", I take it against polygamy, because marriage is between one man and one woman for life.
God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Eve and Sarah and Elizabeth.

According to God's word, a man can only have one wife and be a pastor or deacon ( 1 Timothy 3:1-13 ).
If a man's original wife is still alive, and he marries another, then he is now the husband of two wives ( that's what makes it adultery, having relations with another woman when he's still married in God's eyes to the first woman )...until either the first or second dies.
He then reverts to being the husband of one wife.

Divorce in man's eyes does not annul the marriage...the only way a marriage is not a marriage, is if it has not been consummated.
Then it can be annulled.
In God's eyes, marriage occurs when a man and woman "know each other"...when a man "takes" a woman as his wife ( Genesis 24:67 )...not when a ceremony takes place.

With all that said,
How can a man be a pastor or deacon and obey God's commandment if they are divorced and the original spouse is still alive?
I would say that he cannot.


But one thing I can tell you historically...

I think you'd be hard-pressed to find the pastors of 100-300 years ago as being anything but once-married or widowed and re-married.
That is the way it was treated.
I think that we as believers treat marriage and divorce today far too casually...it's a serious and life-long commitment for two people who are supposed to love each other until death.

That is what I hold to.

As for divorce and holding any other office or gift in the church...I would say it's OK if a man that was divorced was a teacher or was involved in some way with edifying his brothers and sisters...just not as an elder or deacon.

I think part of the confusion here might be in our modern definition of "pastor", which is a "super Christian" who does everything.
Christ's churches have a multiplicity of elders, deacons and so forth.
One can teach, one preaches, one pastors ( oversees ), one is a deacon ( helps the church in real-world ways ), etc ( Ephesians 4:11-16 ).

I see God's offices ( pastor / elder and deacon ) as being reserved for the most humble of servants, and the most obedient.


May God bless you sir.:)
Click to expand...

i am aware that death ends the marriage, and thereby allows or remarriage. However my point is he would not be a man of one wife, but two. if he married another whilst he still had a wife whom he divorced, he would not have two wives but one and adultery with another. So to me the allowance of remarriage makes me see the "man of one wife", as against polygamy.

Also your point about Pastor being above reproach, how does a man who sinned before conversion (divorce) defeat this? Not to judge them to their old lives but new.
 
Dave G

Dave G

Well-Known Member
With respect, I'm all out of answers for this subject.

Scripture gives us all we need, as believers.
Scenarios can get complicated, and we all know that this life is a complicated thing.
We go as the Lord leads.

He is the one who makes pastors and deacons, not us:

" Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood." ( Acts of the Apostles 20:28 )

What I can tell you is, that I accept, by faith, that God's pastors and deacons will be above reproach, and will conform to His standards, not ours.

This is my final reply in this thread.


May God bless all of you in both knowledge and grace.:)
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dave Gilbert said:
It's not the unpardonable sin.
All of a believer's sins were paid for on the cross.

However, being cleansed does not give believers an occasion to the flesh.
Marriage is a picture of God's covenants, and He doesn't break covenants...men do.
That was why Moses gave the writing of divorce...because of man's hard-heartedness, not God's.

Divorce and re-marriage is a very difficult area that has point-blank commandment from the Lord for believers, as I see it.
Remain single, or reconcile to the spouse.


For those who go farther, there is always forgiveness; but from my perspective, any man who divorces and re-marries is automatically disqualified to be a pastor or a deacon in the "office" sense, because they've had more than one wife.
It's about being above reproach outwardly, as well as demonstrating that he can run his own house well.

Want to learn how to deal with two personalities that may rub against one another and start a fire?
Get stuck in a situation that demands it. ;)
It gives good experience for running the house of God, in my estimation.

Question:
How can a man who is unable to reconcile with his wife or unable to discipline his own children and keep them from being unruly, serve the house of God as a pastor or deacon, watching over God's flock?

Answer:
He cannot.

For the man who divorced and then remarried either before or after believing on Christ, I think this should also apply.
He must be the husband of one wife.

That is what I see in the language.

This does not disqualify him from being a teacher or encouraging others with other gifts...just from serving as an overseer/shepherd over God's flock, or from being a deacon.



May God bless you.
Click to expand...
I do agree that God command for 2 Christians would be until death, but do see also where adultery breaks the vow, as would deserting!
I do see that the Lordf allows in certain situations remarriage in the Lord, but that is not mandatory, and reconciliation to the first partner should always be the first choice if at all possible...
I know of a pastor whose wife stepped out on him with a fellow minister and ended up divorcing him, so would he not qualify to stay on in the pulpit, and even remarry in the Lord?
 
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