Is Drinking Alcohol a Sin?

[webdog]

Why would Paul prescribe alcohol for Timothy's stomach problems?

Alcohol kills bacteria, something the water had plenty of back then. Grape juice would have done squat for that. Supply a source where Dr.'s recommend grape juice for medicinal properties. The degrees you go to stretch the truth is amazing...

 

[standingfirminChrist]

From emedicinal.com:

Uses

Treats blood and energy deficiency, night sweats, thirst, palpitations, rheumatic pains, difficult urination, edema, dry cough.
Wild or cultivated whole grape leaves were put in the bottom of crocks to preserve the color of beans that were stored. Grape leaves also used to wrap fresh-made butter. Said to help preserve butter. Cultivated grape leaves considered best.
Vitis labrusca (fox grape) was used by the Native Americans as leaf tea for diarrhea, hepatitis, stomachaches, thrush. Externally, they poulticed wilted leaves for sore breasts, rheumatism, headaches, fevers. Other Vitis species have been used similarly. Vines, when cut in the summer, yield potable water, possibly purer than today's acid-rain water.

This is speaking of the medicinal qualities of the juice of the grape.

From a 2005 study on Alcohol done at the University of Michigan:

Alcohol increases the acid in your stomach. The irritating effects of alcohol may cause gastritis (inflammation of the lining of the stomach), pancreatitis (inflammation of the pancreas), or a peptic ulcer (a raw area in the lining of the stomach or intestines). Alcohol can also damage your small intestine and keep it from absorbing nutrients.

Why would Paul tell Timothy to drink something that would further irritate his existing stomach ailments? The answer... He wouldn't. He prescribed grape juice knowing the medicinal qualities it contained.

 

[webdog]

This is speaking of the medicinal qualities of the juice of the grape.

I saw plenty of grape leaves but no grape juice.

Why would Paul tell Timothy to drink something that would further irritate his existing stomach ailments? The answer... He wouldn't. He prescribed grape juice knowing the medicinal qualities it contained.

The bacteria was killed off by the alcohol, period. Whether it was a result of increasing acid or not, I don't know. It sure wasn't as a result of grape leaves.

 

[Not_hard_to_find]

Why would Paul tell Timothy to drink something that would further irritate his existing stomach ailments? The answer... He wouldn't. He prescribed grape juice knowing the medicinal qualities it contained.

Your logic escapes me -- I cannot figure out when 'wine' means 'wine' and when it doesn't from your logic.

However, my Mother's physician must have had Paul's logic when he prescribed for her a glass of red wine of an evening. Specifically wine, grape juice would not do. She had ulcers, was taking strong medication for Lou Gehrig's disease and leukemia. Her strong Baptist upbringing caused her concern -- though her sleeping through the night again brought her and my Father sleep and relaxation.

She did not sin by taking that evening wine.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Since the Word of God tells us "Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his color in the cup, when it moveth itself aright (clearly speaking of a fermented beverage)', your mother apparently valued the word of a human doctor over the Word of God that forbids having experience with alcoholic wine at all.

Paul said in Romans 14 that 'It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.'

Guess what? Wine certainly causes people to stumble. It is a mocker, the Word of God says. It brings woe, contention, and many other distresses in a person's life. At the last, it bites like a serpent and stings like an adder.

Apparently your mother did not 'have Paul's logic' as you claim. For, if she did, she would have told that quack doctor that the Christian is forbidden to partake of alcoholic beverages according to Romans 14:21.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Since the Word of God tells us "Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his color in the cup, when it moveth itself aright (clearly speaking of a fermented beverage)', your mother apparently valued the word of a human doctor over the Word of God that forbids having experience with alcoholic wine at all.

Paul said in Romans 14 that 'It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.'

Guess what? Wine certainly causes people to stumble. It is a mocker, the Word of God says. It brings woe, contention, and many other distresses in a person's life. At the last, it bites like a serpent and stings like an adder.

Apparently your mother did not 'have Paul's logic' as you claim. For, if she did, she would have told that quack doctor that the Christian is forbidden to partake of alcoholic beverages according to Romans 14:21.

And a hearty AMEN!!

The Child of God is not to drink alcoholic beverages.

 

[webdog]

It was only a matter of time. Now the Pharisee panel is complete.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

It is only a matter of time before those who reject the clear teaching of God's Words will fall into their own snare because they are already deceived by the alcoholic wine they advocate.

 

[webdog]

It is only a matter of time before those who reject the clear teaching of God's Words will fall into their own snare because they are already deceived by the alcoholic wine they advocate.

Amen. Hence my Pharisee comment...

 

[Not_hard_to_find]

Apparently your mother did not 'have Paul's logic' as you claim. For, if she did, she would have told that quack doctor that the Christian is forbidden to partake of alcoholic beverages according to Romans 14:21.

I'll stick to Timothy. And it is a shame that you call a caring physician a quack. However, I forgive your unforgiving attitude. And your gyrations to make wine wine or not wine as it suits the need of your interpretation.

 

[annsni]

Apparently your mother did not 'have Paul's logic' as you claim. For, if she did, she would have told that quack doctor that the Christian is forbidden to partake of alcoholic beverages according to Romans 14:21.

Make sure you don't eat meat either - read the passage you referenced:

"It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble"

 

[standingfirminChrist]

who said I eat meat?

Also, this thread is not about meat. If you wish, you can start a thread advocating meat, but don't hijack this thread with your grasping for excuses to drink alcohol.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I'll stick to Timothy. And it is a shame that you call a caring physician a quack. However, I forgive your unforgiving attitude. And your gyrations to make wine wine or not wine as it suits the need of your interpretation.

Apparently you must think Paul would tell Timothy to add to his stomach ailments by drinking alcohol which causes gastritis, pancreaitis, and many other ailmennts.

How rude, uncaring and insensitive of Paul towards Timothy to tell him to add to his woes!!

 

[annsni]

who said I eat meat?

Also, this thread is not about meat. If you wish, you can start a thread advocating meat, but don't hijack this thread with your grasping for excuses to drink alcohol.

I'm just saying that, if you take one part of a verse, make sure you're consistent on how you take the verse......

 

[npetreley]

Make sure you don't eat meat either - read the passage you referenced:

"It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble"

Good quote. Here are more quotes from the chapter I think are relevant to this discussion:

14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him.

That chapter also deals with the issue of eating and drinking in such a way that makes your brother stumble. But it does not condemn eating and drinking, it just points out that what you do MAY cause another to stumble. It does not condemn people for what they eat and drink in privacy, by faith. And it does not condemn what people eat and drink among others who would not be caused to stumble by what you approve.

My personal policy with respect to drinking wine is not to drink it if I don't know the perspective of my company. I don't have the same policy about meat because as far as I know people don't sell meat sacrificed to idols anymore. That is, unless one means sacrificing it to the idol of the holy dollar, in which case there isn't much I could eat or drink in front of anyone, including bottled water.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Apparently you must think Paul would tell Timothy to add to his stomach ailments by drinking alcohol which causes gastritis, pancreaitis, and many other ailmennts.

How rude, uncaring and insensitive of Paul towards Timothy to tell him to add to his woes!!

Can you imagine that?? Paul, an Apostle, a servant, a prisoner of Jesus Christ shutting up his bowels of compassion and allowing Timothy to add to his stomach problems?

Guess we need to reject Paul's writings in the Word of God since he obviously was so uncaring toward Timothy.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I'm just saying that, if you take one part of a verse, make sure you're consistent on how you take the verse......

And as I said, this thread is not about meat.

 

[saturneptune]

Calling someone a Pharisee because they have decided not to drink is an outrage. Lets forget for just one minute all the references to drinking and alcohol in the Bible and how to interpret them, which is all this thread is, a back and forth on that. Yak, Yak, Yak.

When I drank in the Navy, it became apparant to me that I could not drink as so many of you here have claimed, one drink and put it down. That is all the reason I need to abstain, Bible or not.

Now, has everyone forgotten the Holy Spirit in them. The Holy Spirit says to me, what kind of witness is it for a van driver to drink in front of the kids and older people he transports to church? What kind of witness is a deacon drinking? What kind of impression would I make on my Sunday School class if I took a beer to drink while teaching?

The Holy Spirit tells me, the notion is quite stupid, common sense. If your conscience is clear to drink, then it should not bother you to drink in front of your pastor, kids, wife, deacons, or any other person on this earth, because if you feel no shame there, then what are you trying to hide? And quite ignorant also, because God sees you all the time.

I resent very highly being called a Pharisee. I do not drink as lead by the Holy Spirit. I am not following some silly Baptist rule. For the rest of you, if your conscience is clear, drink away. Sing 99 bottles of beer on the wall at your next invitation hymn. I dont care. For me, the message is quite clear.

 

[annsni]

And as I said, this thread is not about meat.

You're right - it's not about eating meat. It's about wine and if the Bible tells us that it is wrong to drink it. You stated that "the Christian is forbidden to partake of alcoholic beverages according to Romans 14:21." If that's so, then it is also forbidden for the Christian to eat meat. Obviously that is not correct, so your interpretation of this verse is wrong. We are interpreting Scripture here, so that is why I bring in the other part of the verse to give a check and balance to your interpretation. The check and balance says that this verse is NOT saying that the Christian is forbidden to drink wine.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

You're right - it's not about eating meat. It's about wine and if the Bible tells us that it is wrong to drink it. You stated that "the Christian is forbidden to partake of alcoholic beverages according to Romans 14:21." If that's so, then it is also forbidden for the Christian to eat meat. Obviously that is not correct, so your interpretation of this verse is wrong. We are interpreting Scripture here, so that is why I bring in the other part of the verse to give a check and balance to your interpretation. The check and balance says that this verse is NOT saying that the Christian is forbidden to drink wine.

Using your logic of checks and balances, we can safely say, without a shadow of doubt, that the Christian is forbidden to drink alcohol according to Proverbs 23:31 since it says not to look at the wine when it is fermented for it leads to redness of eyes, woe, contentions, illicit affairs, and addiction.