Is effeminacy a problem?

[Luke2427]

Huh?

So which is it?

I think that's pretty clear.

If her shoulders are broad because she was born that way- that's one thing.

If her shoulders are broad because she has made them that way through manly activities- that's another thing.

What is there not to understand? How is that unclear to you?

 

[Jerome]

Thank you for explaining your contradictory statements.

 

[abcgrad94]

That's not true. It is not just being the spiritual head of the home that the Bible uses to define manhood.

A Christian man should should seek to be masculine like God made him to be.

What chores, specifically, are defined in the Bible as masculine or feminine? I'm not talking about generic stuff like "providing for one's household." Where in scripture are we told only men should do certain "manly" tasks and women should stick to "feminine" talks? In my home, it doesn't matter if you're male or female, you still help do dishes, take out the trash, cut the grass, etc. We work together. When my girls are old enough, they will learn to change a flat tire or fix a leaky sink.

So who gets to determine whether or not he is "seeking" to be what God wants him to be? You? Me? Again, you're judging the heart based on how the person dresses or walks.

 

[matt wade]

And let us all remember that the OP is chief among those that rail against IFB churches, because they supposedly tell people how to act.

Kind of funny, isn't it?

 

[Winman]

What I am interested in is why Luke brought this topic up. Are you having a disagreement with someone?

 

[humblethinker]

This is especially true if her shoulders are broad because she has made them that way herself by taking on manly tasks.

:laugh: This is funny to me...

 

[DiamondLady]

I think that's pretty clear.

If her shoulders are broad because she was born that way- that's one thing.

If her shoulders are broad because she has made them that way through manly activities- that's another thing.

What is there not to understand? How is that unclear to you?

She is a very large boned woman.....but I have a question for you. What activity...pardon me, MANLY activity could a woman do that would turn normal sized female shoulders into manly shoulders??? Even if I lifted weights for hours each day there's no possible way my shoulders could EVER come close to the size of her shoulders.

 

[menageriekeeper]

That's not true either. We should care about whether or not we are giving people ammunition for rumors. How we appear before the eyes of the world is EXTREMELY important.

Really? Where in scripture does it tell us to take care how we appear to the world? Christ ate without washing his and cared not who saw Him and answered them when they complained. Where is His commandment to care how we appear to the world?

While you are looking that up in 1st Opinions, show me the scripture that says a man shouldn't be small and puny and a woman shouldn't be tall and broad. Cause I thinketh you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[convicted1]

Brother Luke,

I think that these questions you are posing are loaded, and no answer will suffice(not you, but some will agree with what I am about to post, and others will lambaste me), but I do not think it's okay for men to act effeminate. Men need to act like men, and women like women. That being said, I am not their judge, and I will leave that up to Him. I know two men, both of which are married, and they act VERY effiminate. I am quite sure they both have children(one has five girls), and one is a deacon in a FWB church(the one with the five kids). Like I said, it bothers me that they act this way, but that is between them and their Maker. However, they should act like men. I'm just saying..........

 

[Arbo]

I'm surprised this thread has lived to see its fifth page.

 

[Arbo]

If her shoulders are broad because she was born that way- that's one thing.

If her shoulders are broad because she has made them that way through manly activities- that's another thing.

You're kidding, right?

 

[TadQueasy]

The sadness continues.

 

[Skandelon]

I would suggest that the way men walk, talk and move should be distinct from the way women and girls do these things.

I would suggest that it is more of a struggle for some men to be distinct from women in the way they do these things, but that they ought to put forth an effort to be masculine and not feminine.

I would suggest that it is more of a struggle for some men to control their temper than for others. Should we therefore conclude that these men should just be who they are and not put forth the effort to be patient with others?

Just so, a man who struggles with masculinity ought to put forth the effort to be masculine.

And I would suggest that making excuses for a man who is feminine lets him off the hook concerning his responsibility to be masculine just like making excuses for men who are short tempered causes them to feel less inclined to be what they ought to be.

I would suggest that none of us just throw up our hands and say, "Let everybody be whatever they want to be as long as they don't hurt anybody else! If a woman behaves butch- GREAT! If a man is very girly- WONDERFUL! Ka Sara Sara!"

I would suggest that fathers teach their boys to be manly and that mothers teach their girls to be feminine.

It's just like a Deterministic Calvinist to hold men accountable for something they have no control over. :tear:

Does a man control the size and pitch of his vocal chords? Does he control his height or bone structure? Can he help if he has a lisp?

Does talking deeper, walking bow legged and moving more rigidly really make a man more "manly" in your eyes? I can understand the point of addressing men's choices which reflect their masculinity, but you have seemed to go beyond this.



(Plus, if a man doesn't have LFW then he couldn't have done otherwise anyway and clearly God ordained him to be effeminate, so I'm not sure why you would bother trying to correct it. )

 

[Luke2427]

What chores, specifically, are defined in the Bible as masculine or feminine?

Warriors were men everywhere in the Bible. All priests were men. Builders in the Bible were men. Tasks which required heavy lifting were always assigned to the sex DESIGNED BY GOD to be the more rugged of the two.

I could go on and on. Do you READ the Bible? It seems if you did, then you would know this.

Is it OK for a woman to do some of these things? Probably.

Is it PHENOMENALLY clear that God designed men and women to fulfill VERY different roles? Absolutely.

But all of this is besides the point. I am not addressing what occupation one chooses to fill.

I am saying that Christian men ought not walk, talk and move like girls and that Christian women ought not communicate a disdain for God's design by communicating manliness in the way she does these same things.

 

[Luke2427]

What I am interested in is why Luke brought this topic up. Are you having a disagreement with someone?

Did you read the OP?

I stated why I brought it up in the OP.

 

[Luke2427]

Really? Where in scripture does it tell us to take care how we appear to the world? Christ ate without washing his and cared not who saw Him and answered them when they complained. Where is His commandment to care how we appear to the world?

It is all OVER the Bible that God expects us to give great care to how we appear before the world around us.

I literally have NEVER MET a Christian who questioned that.

OUR PRIMARY DUTY in this world is to be lights in this world THAT WHEN MEN SEE OUR GOOD WORKS THEY WILL GLORIFY OUR FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN.

I don't even think a Christian can hardly be right with God who is not TREMENDOUSLY concerned with his testimony before the world.

While you are looking that up in 1st Opinions, show me the scripture that says a man shouldn't be small and puny and a woman shouldn't be tall and broad.

Why don't you try addressing things I actually SAY instead of making up a straw man and assigning him my name?

Cause I thinketh you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

And that was the point of this thread.

I was afraid that an indifference to the neutralizing of gender is wide spread in our religious culture.

If you think that men being masculine and women being feminine is a molehill- you confirm my fears.

 

[Luke2427]

The sadness continues.

The drive-by posting continues.

Why don't you make a point?

Why don't you offer a warrant for that claim?

This is a debate site. One side offers arguments that can be critiqued by others. The other side attempts to dismantle those arguments and offers counter arguments which can also be critiqued.

Any coward can just pop in and insult somebody and run away with out staying in the pocket and having his own viewpoints dismantled.

This is called flaming.

 

[TadQueasy]

The drive-by posting continues.

Why don't you make a point?

Why don't you offer a warrant for that claim?

This is a debate site. One side offers arguments that can be critiqued by others. The other side attempts to dismantle those arguments and offers counter arguments which can also be critiqued.

Any coward can just pop in and insult somebody and run away with out staying in the pocket and having his own viewpoints dismantled.

This is called flaming.

I shared several quotes from this passage that bothered me and they were ignored. Seems you would just rather stick to your own script.

And your statement that builders in the bible were men is incorrect. Try reading through Nehemiah sometime.

 

[Luke2427]

Brother Luke,

I think that these questions you are posing are loaded, and no answer will suffice(not you, but some will agree with what I am about to post, and others will lambaste me), but I do not think it's okay for men to act effeminate. Men need to act like men, and women like women. That being said, I am not their judge, and I will leave that up to Him. I know two men, both of which are married, and they act VERY effiminate. I am quite sure they both have children(one has five girls), and one is a deacon in a FWB church(the one with the five kids). Like I said, it bothers me that they act this way, but that is between them and their Maker. However, they should act like men. I'm just saying..........

Well that's all I am saying.

I've not asked anybody to judge anybody.

I am simply asking is it perfectly OK for men to walk, talk and act like women or is it true that men should seek to be masculine in these activities.

 

[abcgrad94]

Warriors were men everywhere in the Bible. All priests were men. Builders in the Bible were men. Tasks which required heavy lifting were always assigned to the sex DESIGNED BY GOD to be the more rugged of the two.

I could go on and on. Do you READ the Bible? It seems if you did, then you would know this.

I don't appreciate the insinuation that I don't read the Bible, Luke. Can you not post in a single thread without arrogantly insulting other people?

The Proverbs 31 woman specifically "strengthened her arms" and worked willingly with her hands. She considered property and purchased it. Ruth labored in the fields, gleaning grain. Rebekah drew water for camels--all of which required great strength to accomplish. David played the harp and sang songs, and was small compared to King Saul. Instead of using heavy armor, he used a sling and stone to kill Goliath. Yet God chose David to be King of Israel over all of his "manly man" brothers.