Is faith alone enough to save?

[Scott J]

Originally posted by Woodymdt:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Scott J:
The vehicle of faith (by grace thanks Natters) resulted in a change of attitude in that thief. He turned from sin to Christ. In short, he repented.

And the next two questions would be...

1. Was he baptized to show his new faith?</font>[/QUOTE] No. Not necessary for salvation.

2. What works did he perform to support his new faith?

Works aren't necessary. Faith and repentance are. Works are a result of genuine faith and repentance... to that end, the "work" of the thief was his testimony that has endured and blessed believers for almost 2000 years.

 

[Michaelt]

Good deal Scott.

In a matter of three posts, we have debunked a large number of doctrinal issues concerning salvation, baptism, and works!

Kudo's to you my friend.

 

[Scott J]

Schedule me a jet and I'll let you buy me a steak.

 

[Michaelt]

maybe sometime we can do that....well without the jet anyway!!

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

Originally posted by James_Newman:
Christians have lost sight of the fact that salvation is only the beginning of a Christian's journey. Once we have been born again by faith, we are commanded to seek the kingdom of God, which we obtain by faithful obedience to Christ's commandments. We err when we say that once we are saved there is nothing more that God requires of us, or when we apply all the commands to Christians to an unbeliever as requirements for eternal salvation.

I absolutely agree with you on this statement. Christ commanded us to pick up our cross and follow Him. Branches which did not bear fruit are cast into the fire. This is not works based salvation. A true born again experience literally does just that. It changes you completely to the extent that you will never want to return to your old way of life. Oh, every Christian will slip up and sin. The important thing is to recognize that sin, repent, and get back on the straight and narrow.

The key part of living a Christian life is to maintain a close relationship with Christ, to abide in Him. As the song goes, they can tell we are Christians by our love. MA 25 and Rev. 20 describe the eternal fate of those who don't abide in Him and demonstrate this love.

 

[Salamander]

Originally posted by Ransom:
Salamander said:

I have heard some say that just having faith alone in the finished work on Calvary is enough to save

Yeah, me too. The apostle Paul, for one. That's the point of Galatians, after all.

But now compare Ephesians 2:8 to Galatians: "by grace, through faith". It seems "through faith" insists a process after grace applied, not in the sense that works must accompany faith to be saved or to stay saved, but as James 2 shows us all, that faith alone is dead, and that works accompnay living faith: "The just shall live by faith".

That supercedes the conjecture that faith alone saves in the sense that true living faith is what really saves as evidenced by our reaction to regeneration by grace, through faith. Abraham was justified by his works of faith, not by either alone, but together. Justification is faith in action. Works of faith are evidences of genuine salvation, thus a profession of faith alone is exposed by no fruit of the Spirit.

I heard it put this way, "No fruit, No root!!"

 

[Salamander]

Originally posted by Woodymdt:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Scott J:
The vehicle of faith (by grace thanks Natters) resulted in a change of attitude in that thief. He turned from sin to Christ. In short, he repented.

And the next two questions would be...

1. Was he baptized to show his new faith?
and

2. What works did he perform to support his new faith? </font>[/QUOTE]Of course he wasn't baptised in water by immersion, but he was definitely Baptised by the Holy Ghost in the Blood of Christ.

His works? Maybe confessing to the Roman soldiers before, during, and after his legs were broken so he would die; a martyr? His tesitmony placed within the Scriptures for all to read?

 

[chipsgirl]

faith and living the life God wills for us

 

[Michaelt]

Originally posted by Salamander:
Of course he wasn't baptised in water by immersion, but he was definitely Baptised by the Holy Ghost in the Blood of Christ.

But he wasn't submersed under water to complete his salvation.

His works? Maybe confessing to the Roman soldiers before, during, and after his legs were broken so he would die; a martyr? His tesitmony placed within the Scriptures for all to read?

His testimony being placed within scripture wasn't his doing, so that wasn't a work that he did.

This person was saved by Christ without doing anything other than believing Christ was Lord, and receiving Christs' promise that he would live with Him eternally.
He didn't work for it, he didn't have the time to "show" works, he wasn't baptized after he was saved.

Why do people try to make the simplistic things difficult. Believe in Christ as Lord, accept Him as savior, and let Him wash away your sins, and accept His promise of eternity with Him.

 

[Michaelt]

Originally posted by Salamander:
That supercedes the conjecture that faith alone saves in the sense that true living faith is what really saves as evidenced by our reaction to regeneration by grace, through faith. Abraham was justified by his works of faith, not by either alone, but together. Justification is faith in action. Works of faith are evidences of genuine salvation, thus a profession of faith alone is exposed by no fruit of the Spirit.
I heard it put this way, "No fruit, No root!!"

Then I have to go back to my question:

Where was the thiefs "fruit"? How was the thief justified if he had no works to give evidence of "genuine salvation"??

Why make this harder than it really is?

 

[Salamander]

I dunno, Woody, but it seems more like he maybe even witnessed to the Roman soldiers as they broke his legs for him to die by crucifixion. Why, one of those soldiers may just have been the one credited with saying, "Truly this was the Son of God".

Also, I have never even tried to say works are necessary for salvation, but that works are evdiences of slavation in that they are of a living faith, that is what James meant under inspiration in chapters 2:14-26, that a faith without works is dead.

Now Scripture expressly states that we are justified by faith, that would be faith excercised, not just simple believing as so many think, because God chose the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

I can almost hear that theif on the right say,"You may break my legs so I will die, but that fellow in the middle is the Son of God. Just wait three days and you'll see and I'll be with Him in Paradise, you can too!"

You do have to remember, much is left open for the reader in Scripture to understand, but may not be verbatim, but is definitely true.

 

[JWI]

You have to be careful when judging by appearances. There are many examples of people who trusted in God who did not act very "faithful" at times.

When Noah got drunk and lay in his tent naked.

When Jacob deceived his father and said he was Esau.

When Lot chose to live in Sodom for gain.

Samson. Wow. His whole life was a mess. He left his wife. He killed men to settle a gambling debt. He visited a prostitute on a regular basis.

When David committed adultery with Bathsheba. Then, he had his soldiers abandon Uriah in the heat of battle so that he was killed.

Solomon took hundreds of wives.

Peter denied Christ. He left the ministry and went back to his occupation of fishing.

Yes, Christians should try to obey God at all times. But the truth is, many people who truly love and have faith in Christ do not always live so well.

I am not trying to make excuses for Christians who do not seem to live as they should.

But you have to be careful how you judge. All of the men above had saving faith in God, yet at times did not behave very well. Many, like Samson would have been judged to be unsaved sinners by religious people.

 

[hamricba]

Someone has said, "Faith alone is never faith alone."

Saving faith is more than mental assent. It is the gift of God which trusts, and from that trust produces God-glorifying behavior.

 

[JackRUS]

Here is a good web page that explains what faith alone is and isn't:

http://www.the-highway.com/Justification-Gerstner.html

 

[Salamander]

Originally posted by hamricba:
Someone has said, "Faith alone is never faith alone."

Saving faith is more than mental assent. It is the gift of God which trusts, and from that trust produces God-glorifying behavior.

Very good, and even Scriptural.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Another factor - what we think of as "saving faith" is never without its "flip side", repentance.

In that regard, faith alone (without repentance) is dead.

But real saving faith will ALWAYS have repentance as a part of it. Don't just think of "saving faith" as synonymous with "believing".

Remember, the demons believe.

 

[Charles Meadows]

Paul tends to be a very good arguer!

It seems that he goes to great lengths ("ad absurdum" at times) to make a point.

Paul wants to be sure that salvation is NOT localized to anything other than faith - thus his insistence on salvation by faith with an apparent minimization of the significance of works. His point is NOT that works are not important as markers of true faith; rather he wants to be sure to hammer home the point that those works cannot save a man.

 

[DeadMan]

Originally posted by Salamander:
I have heard some say that just having faith alone in the finished work on Calvary is enough to save

A TRUE faith in Christ is all you need!

 

[Salamander]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob:
Another factor - what we think of as "saving faith" is never without its "flip side", repentance.

In that regard, faith alone (without repentance) is dead.

But real saving faith will ALWAYS have repentance as a part of it. Don't just think of "saving faith" as synonymous with "believing".

Remember, the demons believe.

Thank you for repeating me.

 

[Aki]

on another perspective, the only ones who will be saved are whom God will justify, or declare rigtheous in His sight. others will be left unworthy for God's acceptance.

and suprise! justification is recieved through faith alone.

"we are justified by faith... not by works..."