God sovereign over this Virus, drawing people who are wandering and wavering back!
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Is Sabbath Saturday or Sunday.
- Thread starter Hobie
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ONLY Jesus could ever keep the Law, and that was due to Him being God!
NOTHING to do with Keeping Jewish Sabbath!
Hobie
Well-Known Member
Revelation 3:21
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Who is it that overcomes? One who has faith in Jesus Christ!
For the umpteenth time, Col. 2:16 says GENTILES need not keep the sabbath or any other ceremony God gave to ISRAEL. Early Jewish Christians kept those days as they believed God had given them to Israel FOR EVER. But many a Jewish Christian also met with others in Christian worship on Sundays.
That's right, God is indeed sovereign over this and thousands are with Him in heaven right now.
Well, ACTUALLY, they're still in the paradise area of hades right now. Heaven will come later.
Absent from body, present with Lord Jesus, and he is now in Heaven!
Hobie
Well-Known Member
That clearly was the ceremonial system with circumcision and the ceremonial sabbaths not the Sabbath..
Hobie
Well-Known Member
Here is something I came across...
"American Congregationalists: No authority in the New Testament for substitution of the first day for the seventh
“The current notion that Christ and His apostles authoritatively substituted the first day for the seventh, is absolutely without any authority in the New Testament.” Dr. Lyman Abbott, in the Christian Union, June 26, 1890
Anglican: Nowhere commanded to keep the first day
“And where are we told in the Scriptures that we are to keep the first day at all? We are commanded to keep the seventh; but we are nowhere commanded to keep the first day. The reason why we keep the first of the week holy instead of the seventh is for the same reason that we observe many other things, – not because the Bible, but because the church, has enjoined [commanded] it.” Isaac Williams, Plain Sermons on the Catechism, Vol. 1, pp 334, 336.
Anglican/Episcopal: The Catholics changed it “We have made the change from the seventh day to the first day, from Saturday to Sunday, on the authority of the one holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church of Christ.” Episcopalian Bishop Symour, Why we keep Sunday.
Baptist: Sunday Sabbath not in the scriptures
“There was and is a commandment to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not on Sunday. It will be said, however, and with some show of truimph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the Seventh to the First day of the week, with all its duties, privileges and sanctions. Earnestly desiring information on this subject, which I have studied for many years, I ask, where can the record of such a transaction be found? Not in the New Testament – absolutely not. There is no scriptural evidence of the change of the Sabbath institution from the Seventh to the First day of the week…
Church of England: No warrant from scripture for the change of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday
“Neither did he(Jesus), or his disciples, ordain another Sabbath in the place of this, as if they had intended only to shift the day; and to transfer this honor to some other time. Their doctrine and their practise are directly contrary, to so new a fancy. It is true, that in some tract of time, the Church in honor of his resurrection, did set apart that day on the which he rose, to holy exercises: but this upon their own authority, and without warrant from above, that we can hear of; more then the generall warrant which God gave his Church, that all things in it be done decently, and in comely order.” Dr. Peter Heylyn of the Church of England, quoted in History of the Sabbath, Pt 2, Ch.2, p7
Congregationalist: The Christian Sabbath’ [Sunday] is not in the Scripture
“The Christian Sabbath’ [Sunday] is not in the Scripture, and was not by the primitive [early Christian] church called the Sabbath.” Timothy Dwight, Theology, sermon 107, 1818 ed., Vol. IV, p49 [Dwight (1752-1817) was president of Yale University from 1795-1817].
Disciples of Christ: It is all old wives’ fables to talk of the ‘change of the sabbath’
“If it [the Ten Commandments] yet exist, let us observe it… And if it does not exist, let us abandon a mock observance of another day for it. ‘But,’ say some, ‘it was changed from the seventh to the first day.’ Where? when? and by whom? – No, it never was changed, nor could it be, unless creation was to be gone through again: for the reason assigned [in Genesis 2:1-3] must be changed before the observance or respect to the reason, can be changed. It is all old wives’ fables to talk of the ‘change of the sabbath’ from the seventh to the first day. If it be changed, it was that august personage changed it who changes times and laws ex officio, – I think his name is “Doctor Antichrist.’” Alexander Campbell, The Christian Baptist, February 2, 1824, vol 1, no. 7
Episcopal: Bible commandment says the seventh day
“The Bible commandment says on the seventh-day thou shalt rest. That is Saturday. Nowhere in the Bible is it laid down that worship should be done on Sunday.” Phillip Carrington, quoted in Toronto Daily Star, Oct 26, 1949 [Carrington (1892-), Anglican archbishop of Quebec, spoke the avove in a message on this subject delivered to a packed assembly of clergymen. It was widely reported at the time in the news media].
Lutheran: They err in teaching Sunday Sabbath
But they err in teaching that Sunday has taken the place of the Old Testament Sabbath and therefore must be kept as the seventh day had to be kept by the children of Israel…..These churches err in their teaching, for scripture has in no way ordained the first day of the week in place of the Sabbath. There is simply no law in the New Testament to that effect” John Theodore Mueller, Sabbath or Sunday, pp.15, 16
Methodist: Jesus did not abolish the moral law – no command to keep holy the first day
The moral law contained in the Ten Commandments, and enforced by the prophets, He Jesus did not take away. It was not the design of His coming to revoke any part of this. This is a law which can never be broken…Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind and in all ages; as not depending either on time or place, or any other circumstances liable to change, but on the nature of man, and their unchangeable relation to each other.” John Wesley, Sermons on Several Occasions, Vol.1, No. 25
“It is true that there is no positive command for infant baptism. Nor is there any for keeping holy the first day of the week. Many believe that Christ changed the Sabbath. But, from His own words, we see that He came for no such purpose. Those who believe that Jesus changed the Sabbath base it only on a supposition.” Amos Binney, Theological Compendium, 1902 edition, pp 180-181, 171 [Binney (1802-1878), Methodist minister and presiding elder, whose Compendium was published for forty years in many languages, also wrote a Methodist New Testament Commentary].
Moody Bible Institute: “Sabbath was before Sinai”
“I honestly believe that this commandment [the Sabbath commandment] is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated [abolilshed], but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. ‘The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath’ [mark 2:27]. It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was – in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.
“The [Seventh-day] Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. This Fourth Commandment [Exodus 20:8-11] begins with the word ‘remember,’ showing that the Sabbath had already existed when God wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they admit that the other nine are still binding? Dwight.L. Moody, Weighed and Wanting, 1898, pp.46-47 [D.L. Moody, (1837-1899) was the most famous evangelist of his time, and founder of the Moody Bible Institute].
“This Fourth is not a commandment for one place, or one time, but for all places and times.” D.L. Moody, at San Francisco, Jan. 1st, 1881....https://amredeemed.com/all-sunday-churches-admit-saturday-is-the-sabbath/
"American Congregationalists: No authority in the New Testament for substitution of the first day for the seventh
“The current notion that Christ and His apostles authoritatively substituted the first day for the seventh, is absolutely without any authority in the New Testament.” Dr. Lyman Abbott, in the Christian Union, June 26, 1890
Anglican: Nowhere commanded to keep the first day
“And where are we told in the Scriptures that we are to keep the first day at all? We are commanded to keep the seventh; but we are nowhere commanded to keep the first day. The reason why we keep the first of the week holy instead of the seventh is for the same reason that we observe many other things, – not because the Bible, but because the church, has enjoined [commanded] it.” Isaac Williams, Plain Sermons on the Catechism, Vol. 1, pp 334, 336.
Anglican/Episcopal: The Catholics changed it “We have made the change from the seventh day to the first day, from Saturday to Sunday, on the authority of the one holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church of Christ.” Episcopalian Bishop Symour, Why we keep Sunday.
Baptist: Sunday Sabbath not in the scriptures
“There was and is a commandment to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not on Sunday. It will be said, however, and with some show of truimph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the Seventh to the First day of the week, with all its duties, privileges and sanctions. Earnestly desiring information on this subject, which I have studied for many years, I ask, where can the record of such a transaction be found? Not in the New Testament – absolutely not. There is no scriptural evidence of the change of the Sabbath institution from the Seventh to the First day of the week…
Church of England: No warrant from scripture for the change of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday
“Neither did he(Jesus), or his disciples, ordain another Sabbath in the place of this, as if they had intended only to shift the day; and to transfer this honor to some other time. Their doctrine and their practise are directly contrary, to so new a fancy. It is true, that in some tract of time, the Church in honor of his resurrection, did set apart that day on the which he rose, to holy exercises: but this upon their own authority, and without warrant from above, that we can hear of; more then the generall warrant which God gave his Church, that all things in it be done decently, and in comely order.” Dr. Peter Heylyn of the Church of England, quoted in History of the Sabbath, Pt 2, Ch.2, p7
Congregationalist: The Christian Sabbath’ [Sunday] is not in the Scripture
“The Christian Sabbath’ [Sunday] is not in the Scripture, and was not by the primitive [early Christian] church called the Sabbath.” Timothy Dwight, Theology, sermon 107, 1818 ed., Vol. IV, p49 [Dwight (1752-1817) was president of Yale University from 1795-1817].
Disciples of Christ: It is all old wives’ fables to talk of the ‘change of the sabbath’
“If it [the Ten Commandments] yet exist, let us observe it… And if it does not exist, let us abandon a mock observance of another day for it. ‘But,’ say some, ‘it was changed from the seventh to the first day.’ Where? when? and by whom? – No, it never was changed, nor could it be, unless creation was to be gone through again: for the reason assigned [in Genesis 2:1-3] must be changed before the observance or respect to the reason, can be changed. It is all old wives’ fables to talk of the ‘change of the sabbath’ from the seventh to the first day. If it be changed, it was that august personage changed it who changes times and laws ex officio, – I think his name is “Doctor Antichrist.’” Alexander Campbell, The Christian Baptist, February 2, 1824, vol 1, no. 7
Episcopal: Bible commandment says the seventh day
“The Bible commandment says on the seventh-day thou shalt rest. That is Saturday. Nowhere in the Bible is it laid down that worship should be done on Sunday.” Phillip Carrington, quoted in Toronto Daily Star, Oct 26, 1949 [Carrington (1892-), Anglican archbishop of Quebec, spoke the avove in a message on this subject delivered to a packed assembly of clergymen. It was widely reported at the time in the news media].
Lutheran: They err in teaching Sunday Sabbath
But they err in teaching that Sunday has taken the place of the Old Testament Sabbath and therefore must be kept as the seventh day had to be kept by the children of Israel…..These churches err in their teaching, for scripture has in no way ordained the first day of the week in place of the Sabbath. There is simply no law in the New Testament to that effect” John Theodore Mueller, Sabbath or Sunday, pp.15, 16
Methodist: Jesus did not abolish the moral law – no command to keep holy the first day
The moral law contained in the Ten Commandments, and enforced by the prophets, He Jesus did not take away. It was not the design of His coming to revoke any part of this. This is a law which can never be broken…Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind and in all ages; as not depending either on time or place, or any other circumstances liable to change, but on the nature of man, and their unchangeable relation to each other.” John Wesley, Sermons on Several Occasions, Vol.1, No. 25
“It is true that there is no positive command for infant baptism. Nor is there any for keeping holy the first day of the week. Many believe that Christ changed the Sabbath. But, from His own words, we see that He came for no such purpose. Those who believe that Jesus changed the Sabbath base it only on a supposition.” Amos Binney, Theological Compendium, 1902 edition, pp 180-181, 171 [Binney (1802-1878), Methodist minister and presiding elder, whose Compendium was published for forty years in many languages, also wrote a Methodist New Testament Commentary].
Moody Bible Institute: “Sabbath was before Sinai”
“I honestly believe that this commandment [the Sabbath commandment] is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated [abolilshed], but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. ‘The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath’ [mark 2:27]. It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was – in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.
“The [Seventh-day] Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. This Fourth Commandment [Exodus 20:8-11] begins with the word ‘remember,’ showing that the Sabbath had already existed when God wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they admit that the other nine are still binding? Dwight.L. Moody, Weighed and Wanting, 1898, pp.46-47 [D.L. Moody, (1837-1899) was the most famous evangelist of his time, and founder of the Moody Bible Institute].
“This Fourth is not a commandment for one place, or one time, but for all places and times.” D.L. Moody, at San Francisco, Jan. 1st, 1881....https://amredeemed.com/all-sunday-churches-admit-saturday-is-the-sabbath/
Walpole
Well-Known Member
If you believe you are saved simply by faith alone, what difference does it make if you go to church on Saturday or Sunday?
If it does in fact matter, that seems to me to be the dreaded "works-based" salvation Protestants accuse everyone of who does not subscribe to their sola fide doctrine.
If it does in fact matter, that seems to me to be the dreaded "works-based" salvation Protestants accuse everyone of who does not subscribe to their sola fide doctrine.
Just look at what our friend posted right before your post. He finds one person from every faith tradition that keeps Sunday worship right now who says Saturday is the day. That's ONE PERSON from each of them. I could right now find you a Catholic somewhere who has written an article extolling the virtues of abortion for heavens sake! His last post means nothing in the whole scheme of the worship day for Christians.
For instance, he quotes John Wesley. Well, there is a Q&A between the folks at Holiness Today (a Church of Nazarene group) and Dr. Randy L. Maddox, a professor of Wesleyan Studies at Duke Divinity School. The article runs under the title " John Wesley's Legacy In Worship" and Dr. Maddox says: "John Wesley's ideal for his Methodist people in addition to their own prayers at home and small group gatherings during the week, they would have a Sunday worship together".
"In these services there would be elements such as reading of the Word, prayer, singing hymns together, a sermon, and a gathering at the Lords table". Did I read the word SUNDAY? Oh my! If the good Professor of Wesleyan studies does not know John Wesley and what he believed, then nobody does.
Look, we all know the Lutherans, the Episcopals, the Church of England folks and even our Baptist friends worship on the Lords day - and that day would be Sunday. Hobies latest attempt to muddy up the waters on this fools no one, and convinces no one that he is right and the rest of all Christendom is wrong.
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For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 2 Cor 5:1-3
Are they found, with the Lord, in earthly house of tabernacle, house, which is from heaven, or naked? Considering the following . the moment the twinkling of an eye would have already taking place in order to be clothed with your house which is from heaven.
Is one clothed in his house, which is from heaven, upon dying or at the resurrection?
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
Now you're being silly.The other ceremonies are the "feast days" Paul mentioned, and he made no differentiation among the sabbaths. The weekly one was included in his writings.
Walpole
Well-Known Member
In light of Protestant soteriology, if you believe you are saved simply by faith alone, what difference does it make if you go to church on Saturday or Sunday?
Actually, what difference does it make if you go to church at all according to their soteriology?
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Going to church does not save - never ever.
But once a person IS saved, they should have a desire to be with other Christians, worshipping God - making plans to care for widows and orphans, etc.
Salvation comes first and is by faith alone. Works come second as God has prepare those works for us.
Ephesians 2:8-10.
Walpole
Well-Known Member
Do you have a verse which says salvation is by faith alone? The only place in my Bible where the words "faith alone" appear are a condemnation of it.
I've got at least 40 - how many do you want.
Do you honestly believe that feeding the poor or stopping to help an old lady whose tire is flat or giving money to charitable events cleanses you of your sins?
Give me a number - I'll list them.
Walpole
Well-Known Member
Just one single verse which says you are saved by faith alone will suffice.
Proverbs 16:6 ---> "Kindness and honour are sin’s purging; ever it is the fear of the Lord turns men away from harm."
Matthew 6:3-4 ---> "But when thou givest alms, thou shalt not so much as let thy left hand know what thy right hand is doing, so secret is thy almsgiving to be; and then thy Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward thee."
Luke 12:33-34 ---> "Sell what you have, and give alms, so providing yourselves with a purse that time cannot wear holes in, an inexhaustible treasure laid up in heaven, where no thief comes near, no moth consumes. Where your treasure-house is, there your heart is too."
Acts 10:4 ---> "'What is it, Lord?' he asked, gazing at him in terror. And he answered, 'Thy prayers and alms-deeds are recorded on high in God’s sight'."
Acts 10:30-31 ---> "And Cornelius said, 'Three days ago, at this very time, I was making my afternoon prayer in my house, when suddenly I saw a man standing before me, in white clothes, who said to me, Cornelius, thy prayer has been heard, thy almsdeeds have won remembrance in God’s sight.'"
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