Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment, biblical or not?

[Yeshua1]

Because the marks of a cult are there... An attack on a belief he obviously expects his hearers/readers to have; long and selective quoting of scripture; redefining or delimiting biblical terms and phrases to suit his own beliefs-- example: destroy and destruction he uses to mean death-- nonexistence; while that was also used by God at the flood, as he said He will destroy the earth with water, when the earth did not cease to exist [Genesis 6:13; Genesis 9:11].

Add to that his way that he views law keeping, and diet, and how he view prophecy as Pope being Antichrist, and has church history in Revelation itself. ALL of that held by the Sda!

 

[Dave G]

Is the doctrine of eternal conscious torment biblical or not?

Well lets take a look at what the Bible says will happen to the Wicked...

" And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. " ( Revelation 20:10 ).

" Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." ( Jude 1:7 ).

" And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." ( Matthew 25:46 ).

" And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name." ( Revelation 14:9-11 ).

" in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; " ( 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 ).

 

[Hobie]

Well lets look at the history of that as it reveals much and the Hebrew and Greek words. So lets first look at the translation of the words closely to see their original meaning:

· Hades was the Greek work used in some places for the Hebrew term, Sheol or grave as "the place of the dead". Thus, it is used in reference to both the righteous and the wicked, since both wind up there eventually.
· Gehenna refers to the "Valley of Hinnon", which was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. It was a place where people burned their garbage and thus there was always a fire burning there. Bodies of those deemed to have died in sin without hope of salvation were thrown there to be destroyed. Gehenna is used in the New Testament as a metaphor for the final place of punishment for the wicked after the resurrection.
· Tartaro (the verb "throw to Tartarus") occurs only once in the New Testament in II Peter 2:4, and basically means the abyss or oblivion.
· The Hebrew word Abaddon, meaning to perish or "destruction", is sometimes used and basically means the same as the abyss or oblivion.

In most translations they often translate Gehenna as "Hell" which was the Greek closest to the meaning. Young's Literal Translation is a notable exception, simply using "Gehenna".

As you can see, Hades is the Greek word used for the Hebrew word Sheol in Greek translations of the Hebrew Bible. While earlier translations most often translated Hades as "hell", as does the King James Version, modern translations use the transliteration "Hades", or render the word as allusions "to the grave", "among the dead", "place of the dead" and many other like statements in other verses. In Latin, Hades began to incorrectly be translated as Purgatorium (Purgatory in English use) after about 1200 A.D., but no modern English translations put Hades as Purgatory. In the King James Bible, the Old Testament term Sheol is translated as "Hell" 31 times. However, Sheol was translated as "the grave" 31 other times.[54] Sheol is also translated as "the pit" three times.Modern translations, however, no longer translate Sheol as "Hell" at all, instead rendering it "the grave," "the pit," or "death."

So lets look closer at the word Sheol":

Sheol (pronounced "Sheh-ole"), in Hebrew שאול (Sh'ol), is the "abode of the dead", the "underworld", or "pit". Sheol is the common destination of both the righteous and the unrighteous dead, as recounted in Ecclesiastes and Job, and also is shown by the many scriptures showing man returning to dust.

Genesis 3:19
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?"

Psalm 104:29
Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
They are dead, in the grave, sleeping the unconscious state of the dead, knowing nothing.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Similarly Psalms 146:2-4 (NKJV) states: "Do not put your trust in princes, Nor in a son of man, in whom there is no help. His spirit departs, he returns to his earth; In that very day his plans perish."

In the book of Job it is stated: "But man dies and is laid away; indeed he breathes his last and where is he?... So man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more, they will not awake nor be roused from their sleep... If a man dies, shall he live again?" (Job 14:10,12,14a NKJV)

Now Christ himself tells us that dead will be raised, but it will be at the judgment at the end of the world, and there is the resurrection of the just, but the wicked will also be brought up after that to face their judgment at the lake of fire.

Luke 14:14
And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


By the time of Jesus, some Jews had come to believe that those in Sheol awaited the resurrection either in comfort (in the bosom of Abraham) or in torment. This belief is reflected in Jesus' story of the rich man and Lazarus which was being brought in by Hellenistic influences and had begun to make inroads. At that time most Jews believed that Sheol meant simply the grave. Although many use this account (Luke 16:19-31) to support that the wicked go to Hades when they die, most readers forget the story is actually a parable, not an account of real events.

 

[Hobie]

So we see what happens for both the good and the bad after death, they go to the grave. Then we need to understand the resurrection and where the saints will go and also the ultimate destruction of the wicked in the Lake of Fire in a consuming fire, but which because of the Greek words used in translating from the Hebrew text has become confused with Greek myths. Christians picked up these false ideas and pagan beliefs of immortality of the soul, that a part of, or essence of, or spirit being of an individual, which carries with it and confers personal identity, survives the death of the body of this world and this lifetime, by natural or supernatural means. This is at odds and in contrast to the scriptural teaching that the dead go to the grave and know nothing and at the end, a eternal oblivion of the wicked and a eternal life for the saints.

The Greeks had come up with myths that all the dead dwell below the earth in the realm of "Hades and Persephon" good and bad alike, leading a shadowy and cheerless existence. The Greek god Hades was the king of the underworld, a place where souls live after death. The Greek god Hermes, the messenger of the gods, would take the dead soul of a person to the underworld (sometimes called Hades or the House of Hades). Hermes would leave the soul on the banks of the River Styx, the river between life and death. Charon, also known as the ferry-man, would take the soul across the river to Hades, if the soul had gold: Upon burial, the family of the dead soul would put coins under the deceased's tongue. Once crossed, the soul would be judged by Aeacus, Rhadamanthus and King Minos. The soul would be sent to Elysium, Tartarus, Asphodel Fields, or the Fields of Punishment.

From the sixth century BC onwards the Greeks developed pagan ideas for the dead, and of reincarnation and even transmigration of souls. These ideas are particularly associated with the pagan Greek Religious Mysteries or Eleusinian mysteries , where initiation in this life into its 'mysteries' are the prerequisites for getting to paradise in the next life. So you see where the Greek words used came loaded with ideas not in line with the original Hebrew, but since at the time, Greek was used as basically English is used today to communicate between people across the world, it was translated into these Greek words, and we have to go back to what the original Hebrew scribes words they wrote to understand their meaning.

 

[Hobie]

Scripture tells us that the dead are awaiting resurrection at the last judgment, when Christ comes and also when each person will receive his reward:

2 Corinthians 5:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

It will also be a time of surprises for some when individuals who have proclaimed their fidelity to Jesus who will discover that in fact, they have no relation to him at all and are part of those lost with the wicked:

Matthew 7:21-23 King James Version (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

While others who have made no claims for themselves but like the thief on the cross had faith, will find their lives rewarded with eternal life along with the other saints:

Matthew 5:10 King James Version (KJV)
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Now we see that in the Hebrew text it teaches that when people die they go to sheol, the grave, Gehenna which is the consuming by fire of the wicked. Which when the grave or the eternal oblivion of the wicked was translated into Greek, the word Hades was sometimes used, which is a term for the realm of the dead. Nevertheless the meaning depending on context was the grave, death, or the end of the wicked in which they are ultimately destroyed in the specific way in which scripture shows at the end, which is a consuming fire which destroys them for eternity in the lake of fire.

 

[Revmitchell]

And the heresy continues

 

[Hobie]

Check your history, you will find that over time the Greek pagan traditions and ideas were picked up by Hellenistic Jews. This got mixed in with the beliefs from the Hebrew Canon, you can see where even for the Jews, Sheol began to be compared to Hades of Greek mythology to refer to the abode of the dead, when they spoke of death, the grave, or the judgement. So when the ultimate translation of the text to Greek from Hebrew came about, the Greek words were not seen as an issue.

 

[Hobie]

Here is a study on the history of hell that I came across:

"...The word Hell, in the Old Testament, is always a translation of the Hebrew word Sheol, which occurs sixty-four times, and is rendered "hell" thirty-two times, "grave" twenty-nine times, and "pit" three times.

1. By examination of the Hebrew Scriptures it will be found that its radical or primary meaning is, The place or state of the dead.

The following are examples: "Ye shall bring down my gray hairs with sorrow to the grave." Gen. xvii 38. "I will go down to the grave to my son mourning." xxxviii 35. "O that thou wouldst hide me in the grave!" Job xiV 13. "My life draweth nigh to the grave." Ps. lxxxviiI 3. "In the grave who shall give thee thanks?" lxxxvi 5. "Our bones are scattered at the grave's mouth." cxlI 7. "There is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest." Ecc. ix. 10. "If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold thou art there." Ps. cxxxix. 8. "Hell from beneath is moved to meet thee, at thy coming. It stirreth up the dead for thee," &c. Isaiah xiV 9-15.

These passages show the Hebrew usage of the word sheol, which is the original of the word "grave" and "hell" in all the examples cited. It is plain that it has here no reference to a place of endless torment after death. The patriarch would scarcely say, "I will go down to an endless hell to my son mourning." He did not believe his son was in any such place. Job would not very likely pray to God to hide him in a place of endless torment, in order to be delivered from his troubles.

If the reader will substitute the word "hell" in the place of "grave" in all these passages, he will be in the way of understanding the Scripture doctrine on this subject.

2. But there is also a figurative sense to the word sheol, which is frequently met with in the later Scriptures of the Old Testament. Used in this sense, it represents a state of degradation or calamity, arising from any cause, whether misfortune, sin, or the judgment of God.

This is an easy and natural transition. The state or the place of the dead was regarded as solemn and gloomy, and thence the word sheol, the name of this place, came to be applied to any gloomy, or miserable state or condition. The following passages are examples: "The sorrows of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me." Psalm xvii 4-6. This was a past event, and therefore the hell must have been this side of death. Solomon, speaking of a child, says, "Thou shalt beat him, and deliver his soul from hell;" that is, from the ruin and woe of disobedience. ProV xxiiI 14. The Lord says to Israel, in reference to their idolatries, "Thou didst debase thyself even unto hell." Isaiah lvii 9. This, of course, signifies a state of utter moral degradation and wickedness, since the Jewish nation as such certainly never went down into a hell of ceaseless woe. Jonah says, "Out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardst me." ii 2. Here we see the absurdity of supposing sheol or hell to mean a place of punishment after death. The hell in this case was the belly of the whale; or rather the wretched and suffering condition in which the disobedient prophet found himself. "The pains of hell got hold on me: I found trouble and sorrow." Ps. cxvi 3. Yet David was a living man, all this while, here on the earth. So he exclaims again, "Great is thy mercy towards me. Thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell." Ps. lxxxvi 13. Now here the Psalmist was in the lowest hell, and was delivered from it, while he was yet in the body, before death. Of course the hell here cannot be a place of endless punishment after death.

These passages sufficiently illustrate the figurative usage of the word sheol, "hell." They show plainly that it was employed by the Jews as a symbol or figure of extreme degradation or suffering, without reference to the cause. And it is to this condition the Psalmist refers when he says, "The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God." Ps. ix. 17. Though Dr. Allen, President of Bowdoin College, thinks "the punishment expressed here is cutting off from life, destroying from earth by some special judgment, and removing to the invisible place of the dead" (sheol).

It is plain, then, from these citations, that the word sheol, "hell," makes nothing for the doctrine of future unending punishment as a part of the Law penalties. It is never used by Moses or the Prophets in the sense of a place of torment after death; and in no way conflicts with the statement already proved, that the Law of Moses deals wholly in temporal rewards and punishments.

This position, also, I wish to fortify by the testimony of Orthodox critics, men of learning and candor. They know, and therefore they speak.

1. CHAPMAN. "Sheol, in itself considered, has no connection with future punishment." Cited by Balfour, First Inquiry.

2. DR. ALLEN, quoted above, says: "The term sheol does not seem to mean, with certainty, anything more than the state of the dead in their deep abode."

3. DR. CAMPBELL. "Sheol signifies the state of the dead without regard to their happiness or misery."

4. DR. WHITBY. "Sheol throughout the Old Testament signifies not the place of punishment, or of the souls of bad men only, but the grave only, or the place of death."

5. DR. MUENSCHER. This distinguished author of a Dogmatic History in German, says: "The souls or shades of the dead wander in sheol, the realm or kingdom of death, an abode deep under the earth. Thither go all men, without distinction, and hope for no return. There ceases all pain and anguish; there reigns an unbroken silence; there all is powerless and still; and even the praise of God is heard no more."

6. VON COELLN. "Sheol itself is described as the house appointed for all living, which receives into its bosom all mankind, without distinction of rank, wealth, or moral character. It is only in the mode of death, and not in the condition after death, that the good are distinguished above the evil. The just, for instance, die in peace, and are gently borne away before the evil comes; while a bitter death breaks the wicked like as a tree." 2

These witnesses all testify that sheol, or hell, in the Old Testament, has no reference whatever to this doctrine; that it signifies simply the state of the dead, the invisible world, without regard to their goodness or badness, their happiness or misery. The Old Testament doctrine of hell, therefore, is not the doctrine of endless punishment. It is not revealed in the Law of Moses. It is not revealed in the Old Testament.......THE ORIGIN AND HISTORY OF THE Doctrine of Endless Punishment BY THOMAS B. THAYER

 

[Hobie]

Here is another good one on how the false doctrine of Purgatory brought in a lot of the misconceptions we have today...
"There was no mention of Purgatory during the first two centuries of the church. However, when Roman Emperor Theodosius (379-395) decreed that Christianity was to be the official religion of the empire, thousands of pagans flooded into the Church and brought their pagan beliefs and traditions with them. One of those ancient pagan beliefs was a place of purification where souls went to make satisfaction for their sins.

The concept became much more widespread around 600 A.D. due to the fanaticism of Pope Gregory the Great. He developed the doctrine through visions and revelations of a Purgatorial fire. According to the Catholic Encyclopedia (CE), Pope Gregory said Catholics "will expiate their faults by purgatorial flames," and "the pain [is] more intolerable than any one can suffer in this life." Centuries later, at the Council of Florence (1431), it was pronounced an infallible dogma. It was later reaffirmed by the Council of Trent (1564). The dogma is based largely on Catholic tradition from extra- biblical writings and oral history. "So deep was this belief ingrained in our common humanity that it was accepted by the Jews, and in at least a shadowy way by the pagans, long before the coming of Christianity" (CE). It seems incomprehensible that Rome would admit to using a pagan tradition for the defense of one of its most esteemed "Christian" doctrines."
http://www.dividingword.net/Death/Purgatory.pdf

 

[robycop3]

Again, Jesus made it quite-plain to the repentant thief on the cross that He was going to PARADISE at His death. And after he was resurrected, He told the women at His tomb that he had not yet ascended to His Father in heaven.

And, once again, the KJV mistranslated 'hades' as 'hell' in several places.

And Jesus' parables aleays represented REAL events. His parable of the rich man & the beggar Lazarus uses torments & paradise because the actual hades is thus divided. Jesus did NOT alter His teaching to fit hellenistic doctrines.

Now, you've seen the verses posted that PROVE hell-the lake of fire-is eternal, and the souls of the wicked shall be there forever. I don't see why you oppose plain Scripture, but for whatever reasons you may have, I simply don't believe you, and neither does any other TRUE Christian here.

 

[Hobie]

Again, Jesus made it quite-plain to the repentant thief on the cross that He was going to PARADISE at His death. And after he was resurrected, He told the women at His tomb that he had not yet ascended to His Father in heaven.

And, once again, the KJV mistranslated 'hades' as 'hell' in several places.

And Jesus' parables aleays represented REAL events. His parable of the rich man & the beggar Lazarus uses torments & paradise because the actual hades is thus divided. Jesus did NOT alter His teaching to fit hellenistic doctrines.

Now, you've seen the verses posted that PROVE hell-the lake of fire-is eternal, and the souls of the wicked shall be there forever. I don't see why you oppose plain Scripture, but for whatever reasons you may have, I simply don't believe you, and neither does any other TRUE Christian here.

That is correct, Jesus did not ascend to heaven that day, but like 'Easter', the KJV translators presuppositions came into play.

 

[robycop3]

Yes, the lake of fire is uninhabited right now. its first inhabitants will be the antichrist & the false prophet, then Satan, then, all unsaved men, the angels who followed Satan, & Satan's demons.

John 3:13
No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.

More proof the righteous dead have not yet gone to heaven.

 

[Yeshua1]

Again, Jesus made it quite-plain to the repentant thief on the cross that He was going to PARADISE at His death. And after he was resurrected, He told the women at His tomb that he had not yet ascended to His Father in heaven.

And, once again, the KJV mistranslated 'hades' as 'hell' in several places.

And Jesus' parables aleays represented REAL events. His parable of the rich man & the beggar Lazarus uses torments & paradise because the actual hades is thus divided. Jesus did NOT alter His teaching to fit hellenistic doctrines.

Now, you've seen the verses posted that PROVE hell-the lake of fire-is eternal, and the souls of the wicked shall be there forever. I don't see why you oppose plain Scripture, but for whatever reasons you may have, I simply don't believe you, and neither does any other TRUE Christian here.

he is channeling the errors of his false prophetess Ellen White here, as he views her saying superior to Jesus!

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, the lake of fire is uninhabited right now. its first inhabitants will be the antichrist & the false prophet, then Satan, then, all unsaved men, the angels who followed Satan, & Satan's demons.

John 3:13
No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.

More proof the righteous dead have not yet gone to heaven.

All saved in Jesus have gone to heaven when physically dead, but none were able to until he rose again and that Temple curtain was torn in half!

 

[Hobie]

Then why do we need Jesus if we are already in heaven...
John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

 

[Hobie]

Bible scholars are very clear on this issue, take a look...

"1st. It shows that Sheol of the Old Testament, and Hades of the New, both translated by our English word hell, did not originally signify a place of misery for the wicked, but simply the state of the dead , without regard to the goodness or badness of the persons, their happiness or misery. It follows, of course, that wherever these two words are used in Scripture, though translated by the word hell, we ought not to understand a place of misery to be meant by the inspired writers.


2d. It establishes, also, that our English word hell, in its primitive signification, perfectly corresponded to Hades and Sheol, and did not, as it now does, signify a place of misery. It denoted only what was secret or concealed. What we wish to be noticed here, is, that people, generally, have connected the idea of misery with the word hell; but it is evident that it is a very false association. It is beyond all controversy that the word is changed from its original signification to express this idea.

3d. It is also obvious from the above quotation, and from other authors which might be quoted, that Gehenna is the word which is supposed to express the idea of a place of endless misery. The correctness of this opinion we shall consider afterwards. At present it need only be observed, that if the opinion be correct, it is somewhat surprising that the English word hell must assume a new sense to accommodate it with a name. Nor was this the original sense of the term Gehenna, as I shall show afterwards.

4th. I add, in regard to the statements made in the above quotation, that they are not opinions broached by a Universalist in support of his system. No; they are the statements of Dr. Campbell, who was not a Universalist. Nor are they his opinions alone, but admitted as correct by learned orthodox critics and commentators. In Mr. E. J. Chapman’s critical and explanatory notes, we find very similar statements made, on Acts 2: 27, which, to save room, I forbear transcribing.

5th. It is now generally conceded that the doctrine of endless punishment is not taught in the Old Testament. Mr. Stuart does not pretend that it is taught there; but thinks that probably future punishment may be taught in five texts. Was it then brought to light by the Gospel? The doctrine of endless punishment was current among the heathen nations long before the appearance of Christ. But who revealed it to heathen nations, yet left the Jewish nation in ignorance concerning it? If it is said it originated in early revelations which are now lost, I ask, how happened it that the heathen knew so much and the Jews so little about it?"...http://creationismonline.com/Studies/1325.PDF

 

[ntchristian]

Just read through this thread. Very interesting. I have studied this subject for a long time. There are a few here who have apparently read church history. Annihilation, eternal hell, and universalism have all been held throughout church history. That being the case, charging someone with being a member of a cult hardly seems appropriate. The views of the EOC on hell are varied and some would consider ambiguous. Views differ from those found in Western churches, whether Roman Catholic or Protestant. I'll include a link to a couple of articles which may be helpful, and I'll quote from a Wiki article. Not doing this to convince or argue for or against anything but just for informative purposes.

Paradise and Hell According to the Orthodox Church — St. Andrew Greek orthodox Church

Heaven and Hell – A Different Perspective

From Wiki article:
"The Eastern Orthodox Church rejects what is presented as the Roman Catholic doctrine of purgatory as a place where believers suffer as their "venial sins" are purged before gaining admittance to heaven.

Contrary to Western Christianity, both Roman and Protestant varieties, the Christians of the East emphasize the mystery of God in his pre-eternal transcendence and maintain a tradition of apophatic theology, while the technical, cataphatic theology of scholasticism tends to be downplayed or viewed as subordinate. Thus, there is no single "official" teaching of the Church apart from apostolic doctrine received and, when necessary, defined by Ecumenical Councils. The Orthodox positions on hell are derived from the sayings of the saints and the consensus views of the Church Fathers. They are not in agreement on all points, and no council universally recognized by the Eastern Orthodox Churches has formulated doctrine on hell, so there is no official doctrine to which all the faithful are bound. Beliefs concerning the nature and duration of hell are considered theologoumena, or theological opinions, rather than dogmas of the Church."

 

[Hobie]

IMO many/most Christians it appears do not really believe in an eternal hell of torment 24/7.

a few decades ago as an associate pastor/youth director the pastor and i had a weekly visitation night to reach the unsaved (door-to-door ministry), visitors, students, etc. with some success and salvation of souls.

Even then not many went out bearing the word and the precious gospel and so it was over the years it seemed not many believed in the human eternal tragedy of hell of which even some of their loved ones were headed.

I dont witness in that way anymore my self. i tell myself - times have changed,I'm old, etc...

So in reality, call me a heretic if you wish, our mouths proclaim one thing our actions another - of all the fundamentals that i could do away with LORD it would be a hell of 24/7 torment.

BUT by no means stop praying and giving for the cause of the GREAT COMMISSION.

Something we can all do.

Yes, it has been seen by others...

Dr. William Whiston (1667-1752) was a Baptist theologian and professor of mathematics at Cambridge University and
"... denied the doctrine of eternal torment and held that the wicked would be totally destroyed." [William Whiston, The Eternity of Hell-Torments Considered, 1740.]

Dr. Edward White (1819-1887) was a Congregationalist pastor at St. Paul's Chapel and chairman of the Congregational Union. For over forty years he was a leading advocate of conditional immortality. In 1883 he made it known:
"I steadfastly maintain, after 40 years of study of the matter, that it is the notion of the infliction of a torment in body and soul that shall be absolutely endless, which alone gives a foot of standing ground to Ingersol in America, or Bradlaugh in England. I believe more firmly than ever that it is a doctrine as contrary to every line of the Bible as it is contrary to every moral instinct of humanity." [Introduction to J. H. Pettingell's The Unspeakable Gift, 1884, p. 22.]

In the following year he adds:
"The Old Testament is consistent throughout with the belief of eternal life of the servants of God, and of the eternal destruction of the wicked. And it is consistent, when taken in its simple sense with no other belief ..."
"The Gospels and Epistles with equal pertinacity adhere almost uniformly to language respecting the doom of the unsaved which taken in its simple sense, teaches, as does the Old Testament, that they shall die, perish, be destroyed, not see life, but suffer destruction, everlasting destruction, `destruction,' says Christ, `of body and soul in Gehenna.' [J.H. Pettingell, Homiletic Monthly (England), march, 1885.]

Dr. John Thomas (1805-1871) was the editor of the Apostolic Advocate and the founder of the Christadelphians. He believed in the "... final extinction of the wicked and in immortality as a gift through Christ." [John Thomas in his article ]

Archbishop Richard Whately (1787-1863) was archbishop of Dublin, Ireland and a professor at Oxford and principal. He taught the final destruction of the wicked and believed "The wicked are never spoken of as being kept alive, but as forfeiting life." [Richard Whitley, A View of the Scriptural Revelations Concerning a Future State.]

Frederick W. Farrar (1831-1903) was the canon of Westminster Abbey and the dean of Canterbury. he denounced the
"... dogma of endless, conscious suffering and could not find a single text in all Scripture that, when fairly interpreted, teaches the common views about endless torment." [Frederick Farrar, Eternal Hope, 1877.; Faith and Mercy,; Mercy and Judgment, 1881]

Dr. R. F. Weymouth (1822-1902) was the headmaster of Mill Hill School and translator of New Testament in Modern Speech. He said:
"My mind fails to conceive a grosser misrepresentation of language than when five or six of the strongest words which the Greek tongue possesses, signifying to destroy or destruction, are explained to mean `maintaining an everlasting but wretched existence.' To translate black as white is nothing to this." [Cited by Edward White in Life in Christ, (1878), p. 365.]

In his book in a note on 1.Corinthians 15:18 he says:
"By `perish' the Apostle here apparently means `pass out of existence'." [Notes by Earnest Hampden-Cook, editor and reviser of third edition of The New Testament in Modern Speech, by Richard Francis Weymouth.]

On Hebrews 9:28 we read:
"The use in the N.T. of such words as `death', `destruction', `fire', `perish', to describe Future Retribution, point to the likelihood of fearful anguish, followed by extinction of being, as the doom which awaits those who by persistent rejection of the Saviour prove themselves utterly, and therefore irremediably bad." {Ibid.]
On Revelation 14:11:
"There is nothing in this verse that necessarily implies an eternity of suffering. In a similar way the word `punishment' or `correction' in Matthew 25:46 gives itself no indication of time."
On Revelation 20:10:
"The Lake of fire implying awful pain and complete, irremediable ruin and destruction." [Ibid.]

 

[HankD]

Yes, it has been seen by others...

Dr. William Whiston (1667-1752) was a Baptist theologian and professor of mathematics at Cambridge University and
"... denied the doctrine of eternal torment and held that the wicked would be totally destroyed." [William Whiston, The Eternity of Hell-Torments Considered, 1740.]

Dr. Edward White (1819-1887) was a Congregationalist pastor at St. Paul's Chapel and chairman of the Congregational Union. For over forty years he was a leading advocate of conditional immortality. In 1883 he made it known:
"I steadfastly maintain, after 40 years of study of the matter, that it is the notion of the infliction of a torment in body and soul that shall be absolutely endless, which alone gives a foot of standing ground to Ingersol in America, or Bradlaugh in England. I believe more firmly than ever that it is a doctrine as contrary to every line of the Bible as it is contrary to every moral instinct of humanity." [Introduction to J. H. Pettingell's The Unspeakable Gift, 1884, p. 22.]

In the following year he adds:
"The Old Testament is consistent throughout with the belief of eternal life of the servants of God, and of the eternal destruction of the wicked. And it is consistent, when taken in its simple sense with no other belief ..."
"The Gospels and Epistles with equal pertinacity adhere almost uniformly to language respecting the doom of the unsaved which taken in its simple sense, teaches, as does the Old Testament, that they shall die, perish, be destroyed, not see life, but suffer destruction, everlasting destruction, `destruction,' says Christ, `of body and soul in Gehenna.' [J.H. Pettingell, Homiletic Monthly (England), march, 1885.]

Dr. John Thomas (1805-1871) was the editor of the Apostolic Advocate and the founder of the Christadelphians. He believed in the "... final extinction of the wicked and in immortality as a gift through Christ." [John Thomas in his article ]

Archbishop Richard Whately (1787-1863) was archbishop of Dublin, Ireland and a professor at Oxford and principal. He taught the final destruction of the wicked and believed "The wicked are never spoken of as being kept alive, but as forfeiting life." [Richard Whitley, A View of the Scriptural Revelations Concerning a Future State.]

Frederick W. Farrar (1831-1903) was the canon of Westminster Abbey and the dean of Canterbury. he denounced the
"... dogma of endless, conscious suffering and could not find a single text in all Scripture that, when fairly interpreted, teaches the common views about endless torment." [Frederick Farrar, Eternal Hope, 1877.; Faith and Mercy,; Mercy and Judgment, 1881]

Dr. R. F. Weymouth (1822-1902) was the headmaster of Mill Hill School and translator of New Testament in Modern Speech. He said:
"My mind fails to conceive a grosser misrepresentation of language than when five or six of the strongest words which the Greek tongue possesses, signifying to destroy or destruction, are explained to mean `maintaining an everlasting but wretched existence.' To translate black as white is nothing to this." [Cited by Edward White in Life in Christ, (1878), p. 365.]

In his book in a note on 1.Corinthians 15:18 he says:
"By `perish' the Apostle here apparently means `pass out of existence'." [Notes by Earnest Hampden-Cook, editor and reviser of third edition of The New Testament in Modern Speech, by Richard Francis Weymouth.]

On Hebrews 9:28 we read:
"The use in the N.T. of such words as `death', `destruction', `fire', `perish', to describe Future Retribution, point to the likelihood of fearful anguish, followed by extinction of being, as the doom which awaits those who by persistent rejection of the Saviour prove themselves utterly, and therefore irremediably bad." {Ibid.]
On Revelation 14:11:
"There is nothing in this verse that necessarily implies an eternity of suffering. In a similar way the word `punishment' or `correction' in Matthew 25:46 gives itself no indication of time."
On Revelation 20:10:
"The Lake of fire implying awful pain and complete, irremediable ruin and destruction." [Ibid.]

yes this is a contrary reaction to the teaching of the conscious unending torment of the damned. Annihilation.
The other reaction is the teaching of the universal atonement of Christ which ultimately is granted to all men without exception.

Both of these views are contrary to scripture,

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, it has been seen by others...

Dr. William Whiston (1667-1752) was a Baptist theologian and professor of mathematics at Cambridge University and
"... denied the doctrine of eternal torment and held that the wicked would be totally destroyed." [William Whiston, The Eternity of Hell-Torments Considered, 1740.]

Dr. Edward White (1819-1887) was a Congregationalist pastor at St. Paul's Chapel and chairman of the Congregational Union. For over forty years he was a leading advocate of conditional immortality. In 1883 he made it known:
"I steadfastly maintain, after 40 years of study of the matter, that it is the notion of the infliction of a torment in body and soul that shall be absolutely endless, which alone gives a foot of standing ground to Ingersol in America, or Bradlaugh in England. I believe more firmly than ever that it is a doctrine as contrary to every line of the Bible as it is contrary to every moral instinct of humanity." [Introduction to J. H. Pettingell's The Unspeakable Gift, 1884, p. 22.]

In the following year he adds:
"The Old Testament is consistent throughout with the belief of eternal life of the servants of God, and of the eternal destruction of the wicked. And it is consistent, when taken in its simple sense with no other belief ..."
"The Gospels and Epistles with equal pertinacity adhere almost uniformly to language respecting the doom of the unsaved which taken in its simple sense, teaches, as does the Old Testament, that they shall die, perish, be destroyed, not see life, but suffer destruction, everlasting destruction, `destruction,' says Christ, `of body and soul in Gehenna.' [J.H. Pettingell, Homiletic Monthly (England), march, 1885.]

Dr. John Thomas (1805-1871) was the editor of the Apostolic Advocate and the founder of the Christadelphians. He believed in the "... final extinction of the wicked and in immortality as a gift through Christ." [John Thomas in his article ]

Archbishop Richard Whately (1787-1863) was archbishop of Dublin, Ireland and a professor at Oxford and principal. He taught the final destruction of the wicked and believed "The wicked are never spoken of as being kept alive, but as forfeiting life." [Richard Whitley, A View of the Scriptural Revelations Concerning a Future State.]

Frederick W. Farrar (1831-1903) was the canon of Westminster Abbey and the dean of Canterbury. he denounced the
"... dogma of endless, conscious suffering and could not find a single text in all Scripture that, when fairly interpreted, teaches the common views about endless torment." [Frederick Farrar, Eternal Hope, 1877.; Faith and Mercy,; Mercy and Judgment, 1881]

Dr. R. F. Weymouth (1822-1902) was the headmaster of Mill Hill School and translator of New Testament in Modern Speech. He said:
"My mind fails to conceive a grosser misrepresentation of language than when five or six of the strongest words which the Greek tongue possesses, signifying to destroy or destruction, are explained to mean `maintaining an everlasting but wretched existence.' To translate black as white is nothing to this." [Cited by Edward White in Life in Christ, (1878), p. 365.]

In his book in a note on 1.Corinthians 15:18 he says:
"By `perish' the Apostle here apparently means `pass out of existence'." [Notes by Earnest Hampden-Cook, editor and reviser of third edition of The New Testament in Modern Speech, by Richard Francis Weymouth.]

On Hebrews 9:28 we read:
"The use in the N.T. of such words as `death', `destruction', `fire', `perish', to describe Future Retribution, point to the likelihood of fearful anguish, followed by extinction of being, as the doom which awaits those who by persistent rejection of the Saviour prove themselves utterly, and therefore irremediably bad." {Ibid.]
On Revelation 14:11:
"There is nothing in this verse that necessarily implies an eternity of suffering. In a similar way the word `punishment' or `correction' in Matthew 25:46 gives itself no indication of time."
On Revelation 20:10:
"The Lake of fire implying awful pain and complete, irremediable ruin and destruction." [Ibid.]

Stick with Revelation 14:11, as that was inspired, not Ellen White!