Is the GOSPEL a work of the Holy Spirit, or not?

[Winman]

there it is winman.....and when combined with romans 3:23,,,which teaches we all sinned at one point in time.....

will you now stop posting against bible truth?

That verse actually proves Adam's sin was not imputed to them!! If Adam's sin was imputed to them, then it would have said they sinned in the same similitude as Adam.

Death passed on all men "for that all have sinned". Every man dies for his own sin. Your doctrine directly contradicts the very words of God himself.

Eze 18:18 As for his father, because he cruelly oppressed, spoiled his brother by violence, and did that which is not good among his people, lo, even he shall die in his iniquity.
19 Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.
20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?


God himself said that every man dies for his own sin. The son does not bear the iniquity of his father, and the father does not bear the iniquity of his son.

You want to believe Augustine and Calvin you go ahead, I choose to believe the word of God.

 

[webdog]

there it is winman.....and when combined with romans 3:23,,,which teaches we all sinned at one point in time.....

will you now stop posting against bible truth?

That is speaking of the curse...and Romans 3:23 states HAS sinned, past tense. Nobody has sinned without having the ability to do so. If you are going to claim the reason we die is due to being conceived sinners, you got a huge issue with Christ's death.

 

[DHK]

With all do respect, your changing the complexion of the OP by your last question. My own testimony shows that there are people who will not come to Christ by those means....in fact, they wont come to Christ by any human means.....so are they Reprobates, doomed to wonder the earth till death (bringing them to hell) or does God have a plan for them?

It seems you practice some form of gnosticism. You have an inner track to the mind of God. He somehow reveals to you who these reprobates are making null and void the Great Commission--to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. After all you wouldn't want preach the gospel to someone who would have a chance of being saved, would you? But you already know the elect. You have a higher knowledge (gnostic) that no one else has. Is this right?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You think that asking an unanswerable question proves your doctrine is true?

Why does one person like mustard on a hot dog, while another person prefers ketchup? Well, you would say mustard tastes better, and I would ask, WHY??

Where does the sky end? There is no end to unanswerable questions, this does not prove your doctrine true in the slightest.

Jesus said some men love darkness. The scriptures say men have pleasure in unrighteousness. That is good enough for me, I can see it in the world around me. Anybody knows it is foolish to use heroin, yet people do. Why? Because it makes them feel good, they enjoy the feeling, it gives them pleasure.

Im not trying to prove anything, just telling you what I know from experience...thats all. If you reject my claims, I'm not going to loose sleep over it. I know what I know via 1st hand experience.:thumbsup:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It seems you practice some form of gnosticism. You have an inner track to the mind of God. He somehow reveals to you who these reprobates are making null and void the Great Commission--to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. After all you wouldn't want preach the gospel to someone who would have a chance of being saved, would you? But you already know the elect. You have a higher knowledge (gnostic) that no one else has. Is this right?

Really....will have to look that one up

 

[Robert Snow]

I do more than assume....Ive experienced it (the saving grace given by the HS, 1st hand.....and he had to bring me in kicking & screaming the whole way.

I thought you Calvinists said that God causes us to desire salvation, now you claim you came to Christ "kicking & screaming the whole way."

Which is it?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I thought you Calvinists said that God causes us to desire salvation, now you claim you came to Christ "kicking & screaming the whole way."

Which is it?

Im sorry was I not clear the dozen times I explained my testimony? LOL

Anyway am I a Calvinist? or perhaps Im a Gnostic? or am I a PB? or a Christian...hmmmm. Now Im confused! Boy, you guys are tough.....ROFL

 

[webdog]

Scripture also tells us faith is a gift of Holy Spirit. I believe that too. Do you?

peace to youraying:

red herring...it's still never a work.

 

[Iconoclast]

winman

You want to believe Augustine and Calvin you go ahead, I choose to believe the word of God.

here is the word of God that you deny..


1230 The use of the aor. in both Romans passages, in their given context, point to an event,


i.e., mankind did not simply inherit a sinful nature or tendency from Adam—“all have sinned,” thus
referring to personal experience and activity, but “all sinned” in an event or point in time (Rom. 3:23,


pa,ntej ga.r h[marton kai. u`sterou/ntai th/j do,xhj tou/ qeou/. “For all sinned and are subsequently
constantly coming short…” Rom. 5:12, …diV e`no.j avnqrw,pou h` a`marti,a eivj to.n ko,smon…evfV w-|
pa,ntej h[marton. “by one man sin entered into the world…for all sinned.”). Every human being is a
sinner by imputation, by nature and by personal activity.461

augustine and calvin believed God here......what about you?

 

[webdog]

,

winman



here is the word of God that you deny..


1230 The use of the aor. in both Romans passages, in their given context, point to an event,


i.e., mankind did not simply inherit a sinful nature or tendency from Adam?—?“all have sinned,?” thus
referring to personal experience and activity, but ?“all sinned?” in an event or point in time (Rom. 3:23,


pa,ntej ga.r h[marton kai. u`sterou/ntai th/j do,xhj tou/ qeou/. ?“For all sinned and are subsequently
constantly coming short?…?” Rom. 5:12, ?…diV e`no.j avnqrw,pou h` a`marti,a eivj to.n ko,smon?…evfV w-|
pa,ntej h[marton. ?“by one man sin entered into the world?…for all sinned.?”). Every human being is a
sinner by imputation, by nature and by personal activity.461

augustine and calvin believed God here......what about you?

James believed God, in fact the Holy Spirit had him pen 1:15. Do you believe James, and by extension, God?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Aaron]

It seems you practice some form of gnosticism. You have an inner track to the mind of God. He somehow reveals to you who these reprobates are making null and void the Great Commission--to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. After all you wouldn't want preach the gospel to someone who would have a chance of being saved, would you? But you already know the elect. You have a higher knowledge (gnostic) that no one else has. Is this right?

I claim I am a child of God. Do you? You believe someone has to "know something" before he can be born. We assert that we are born of God by His will, not by what we know. You believe that as the image of God, all men, saved or not, possess a kind of "spark of the divine" that is able to come to the knowledge by which they can save themselves. (Though you yourself may not go that far, quantum, Scandal and webdog have.)

Now who's sounding like the Gnostics?

 

[Winman]

I thought you Calvinists said that God causes us to desire salvation, now you claim you came to Christ "kicking & screaming the whole way."

Which is it?

You know, he's probably telling the truth, he couldn't believe, so he had to assume he is regenerated. And I haven't seen a Calvinist yet who said he wanted to be saved.

If you believe that you cannot believe, how can you believe?

The father of the devil possessed boy had trouble believeing Jesus, but this was immediately following the disciples failure to cast the devils out. He had reason to doubt, yet he said he believed and Jesus healed his son.

And I disagree with Iconoclast, God himself said the son shall not bear the iniquity of his father. I don't need to be a Greek scholar to understand God's plain statement.

 

[Iconoclast]

,

James believed God, in fact the Holy Spirit had him pen 1:15. Do you believe James, and by extension, God?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

WD,
I like and believe James....and I understand what James is speaking of.

It is completely different from what Paul addresses. Stick with Romans and solve the puzzle.

 

[webdog]

WD,
I like and believe James....and I understand what James is speaking of.

It is completely different from what Paul addresses. Stick with Romans and solve the puzzle.

Apparently you don't understand James as if you did, your "Romans puzzle" would be solved. Besides, I solved this "puzzle" already...your pet chapter 5 is dealing with the curse.

 

[DHK]

I claim I am a child of God. Do you? You believe someone has to "know something" before he can be born. We assert that we are born of God by His will, not by what we know. You believe that as the image of God, all men, saved or not, possess a kind of "spark of the divine" that is able to come to the knowledge by which they can save themselves. (Though you yourself may not go that far, quantum, Scandal and webdog have.)

Now who's sounding like the Gnostics?

I know I am a child of God because he adopted me into his family the moment I trusted him. My faith is grounded in His Word. Everything I need to know about Christ is written in His Word. I know Christ through His Word. How do you know him? (via gnosticism??)

I believe a person has to know the gospel (by the which ye are saved (1Cor.15:1,2). Unless you know the gospel you cannot be saved.

I believe that we are made in the image of God, and that being so have the ability to reason, make choices, or to believe (have faith). It is a God-given ability, such as Jesus said little children can do. God requires faith in order to be saved. Faith is not a work. Answer this question. Do you believe in sola fide?

But you like others claim you have special knowledge of who is reprobate and who is not, and therefore don't have to witness. At least that is the testimony of one on this board. Is it yours also?

 

[Aaron]

But you like others claim you have special knowledge of who is reprobate and who is not, and therefore don't have to witness.

For my part, I have asserted more than once that the Lord knoweth them that are His, not I.

At least that is the testimony of one on this board.

I'll have to press you for a citation on that one.

 

[Iconoclast]

winman

And I disagree with Iconoclast, God himself said the son shall not bear the iniquity of his father. I don't need to be a Greek scholar to understand God's plain statement.

you meant to say....you do not need a greek scholar to mis-understand God's truth. you do not want an answer.....you said you did...but clearly do not.

WD

Apparently you don't understand James as if you did, your "Romans puzzle" would be solved. Besides, I solved this "puzzle" already...your pet chapter 5 is dealing with the curse.

my friend wd....James is not dealing with Adam's Sin...and imputations....
he is speaking of sin and it's consequences.....

the quote deals with chapter 3 first than rom 5.....you have not really come to grips with this truth.....take another look at it:thumbsup:

 

[DHK]

I'll have to press you for a citation on that one.

From post #160

DHK Posted: It wasn't me running to God. It was others running to me with the gospel in obedience to the Great Commission. Do you believe that we should be doing that?

Earth Wind & Fire Posted: With all do respect, your changing the complexion of the OP by your last question. My own testimony shows that there are people who will not come to Christ by those means....in fact, they wont come to Christ by any human means.....so are they Reprobates, doomed to wonder the earth till death (bringing them to hell) or does God have a plan for them?

Since his answer is a response in relation to the Great Commission he must know who the reprobates are.

 

[webdog]

my friend wd....James is not dealing with Adam's Sin...and imputations....

He's dealing with sin and it's consequence...death. That passage alone refutes Augustinianism.

but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

It's so clear a child can understand it.

the quote deals with chapter 3 first than rom 5.....you have not really come to grips with this truth.....take another look at it

ALL Scripture is God breathed. I will point you to your own advice in dealing with James...just accept the truth without adding to it.

 

[Iconoclast]

He's dealing with sin and it's consequence...death. That passage alone refutes Augustinianism.

but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

It's so clear a child can understand it.

ALL Scripture is God breathed. I will point you to your own advice in dealing with James...just accept the truth without adding to it.

WD....
if a child can understand it....why have you missed it. Your Post as stands refutes nothing..but in fact denies most of the Nt teaching on mans fallen condition.
I think you are sincere..but sincerely mistaken.

This is a great passage to explain the anatomy of sin...and where it leads to.
Your mis-use of it does not negate how most of the believing church has understood these passages and the truth they do teach.

You do need to come to a correct understanding of both passages or...you can just make up your own webdogisms.

try this;
http://www.alfredplacechurch.org.uk/Sermons/james6.htm

this is a most excellent sermon