Is the GOSPEL a work of the Holy Spirit, or not?

[JesusFan]

What do you mean by "reborn"? How can something (it can't be a person) that is not alive be born?

We say "born dead" or "stillborn", but a child who is stillborn was alive once.

So again, please explain to me how something that was never alive dies.

You and others say this all the time, should be easy to explain and you must have volumes of scripture to support it. Please show these scriptures.

please reread Romans chapter 5 pretty self explanatory by the Holy Spirit!

God considera ALL of us to be in adam, dead spiritually at physical birth
God quickens us spiritually alive once found In Christ
God alone can bring to life that which is dead!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. (James 2:26)
--Physical death occurs when the body is separated from the spirit.
Death is separation.

Adam died spiritually when he ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Yet, he continued to commune with God. Death is separation. It is not lifelessness.

Since death is separation an unsaved man can seek the Lord, believe on the Lord, and be saved. He does not have to be regenerated first. That particular concept is not taught in the Bible. He does not have to be given the gift of faith. No such concept is found in the Bible. What is found in the Bible are simple straightforward statements as this:

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.

It seems to me that most Calvinists here don't believe in the Doctrines of Grace. If they did they would also believe in sola fide.

Are you implying that the sin of Adam affected no one but himself?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Maybe you can explain how someone who was never alive dies?

I gotta tell ya, that's a tough concept to swallow, I have always believed you must have life to die.

So, how do "all die" in Adam?

I think the term your looking for is "Inherited Depravity" .... are you familiar with the concept?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yes, but there is no reason or excuse why it cannot be done charitably. I see more brotherly love and charitable reponses on philosophy forums. It is very sad the kind of emotional abuse people have to suffer on here for having there own personal views and idea's.

There Timothy you digress into sentimentality. A truly strong person is confident of their theological position. However I do agree that arrogance should have no place & to degrade another brother or sister is NOT showing Grace. It should be a free exchange of ideas (minus the insults):thumbs:

 

[JesusFan]

Are you implying that the sin of Adam affected no one but himself?

Think non cals have a big problem with just HOW much the fall devastated the human race after Adam...

they tend to see it marring our image in God, not making us dead by it!

 

[JesusFan]

I think the term your looking for is "Inherited Depravity" .... are you familiar with the concept?

believe our brother though does NOT hold to us being inherintly sinful and evil, only after we chose to sin!

 

[DHK]

Are you implying that the sin of Adam affected no one but himself?

No, I didn't say that.
Adam was separated from God by his sin; he was reconciled to God by the sacrifice of an animal and the shedding of blood.

We, as unsaved, are separated from God by sin, (not only our own, but our inherited sin nature). We become reconciled to God through the atoning work of Christ who shed his blood once and for all that we who believe on him might have forgiveness of sins.

 

[JesusFan]

No, I didn't say that.
Adam was separated from God by his sin; he was reconciled to God by the sacrifice of an animal and the shedding of blood.

We, as unsaved, are separated from God by sin, (not only our own, but our inherited sin nature). We become reconciled to God through the atoning work of Christ who shed his blood once and for all that we who believe on him might have forgiveness of sins.

partially true, in that the part of man that God created in Adam to have fellowship/commune with Him died in fall, and that aspect of human kind died in all persons after that, that is why we find ourselves not in a spiritually relationship with God, as we literally cannot until it gets 'reborn" in us!

 

[MB]

The beginning of this relationship is being drawn. Then comes being convinced of the gospel. This is where faith comes from, hearing the gospel, and there by being convinced. The convincing brings on conviction and conviction brings on submission. Not everyone will be convinced and most certainly not everyone will submit. and none of these things are the work of man. Submission is nothing more than giving up and surrendering to the call of Christ. Every bit a work of God.
MB

 

[Winman]

I think the term your looking for is "Inherited Depravity" .... are you familiar with the concept?

Were Adam and Eve created with inherited depravity?

If not, how did they sin?

Does a person have to have inheritied depravity to sin?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No, I didn't say that.
Adam was separated from God by his sin; he was reconciled to God by the sacrifice of an animal and the shedding of blood.

We, as unsaved, are separated from God by sin, (not only our own, but our inherited sin nature). We become reconciled to God through the atoning work of Christ who shed his blood once and for all that we who believe on him might have forgiveness of sins.

So how does that process work? Do we recognize our sins & suddenly run to Christ? & if we are sinners, why would we...simply for the heck of it?

 

[Winman]

So how does that process work? Do we recognize our sins & suddenly run to Christ? & if we are sinners, why would we...simply for the heck of it?

Everlasting life would be a strong incentive for me.

 

[Winman]

please reread Romans chapter 5 pretty self explanatory by the Holy Spirit!

God considera ALL of us to be in adam, dead spiritually at physical birth
God quickens us spiritually alive once found In Christ
God alone can bring to life that which is dead!

I have read Romans 5 many times, and in my opinion it does not teach that Adam's sin was imputed to us. Exactly which verse in Romans 5 says Adam's sin was imputed to us? I would love to see that verse.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Everlasting life would be a strong incentive for me.

Maybe you, but not everyone would give a hoot & you'd have to believe it....sinners rarely do. Remember no Faith to believe. Your left with a skeptic (at best) or a indignant belligerent thug & total unbeliever at worst....now what do you do?

 

[Winman]

Maybe you, but not everyone would give a hoot & you'd have to believe it....sinners rarely do. Remember no Faith to believe. Your left with a skeptic (at best) or a indignant belligerent thug & total unbeliever at worst....now what do you do?

You ASSUME your doctrine is true. I believe all men are enabled by revelation to believe in Christ.

Jn 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Here John says the book of John was recorded "that ye might believe". John has provided all the evidence needed for a man to believe Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. You can choose to believe the evidence he has provided, or you can ignore it, it is up to you. I believe it.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You ASSUME your doctrine is true. I believe all men are enabled by revelation to believe in Christ.

I do more than assume....Ive experienced it (the saving grace given by the HS, 1st hand.....and he had to bring me in kicking & screaming the whole way.

also if ALL men are enabled then why arent ALL men saved?

Jn 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

YE MIGHT BELIEVE

Here John says the book of John was recorded "that ye might believe". John has provided all the evidence needed for a man to believe Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. You can choose to believe the evidence he has provided, or you can ignore it, it is up to you. I believe it.

Good for you....you still haven't addressed the person that wont....or is that the guy you assume is going to hell? :smilewinkgrin:

 

[DHK]

So how does that process work? Do we recognize our sins & suddenly run to Christ? & if we are sinners, why would we...simply for the heck of it?

Why did you come to Christ?
I came to Christ because someone shared the gospel with me (I was 20, and it was the first time I heard it). It made sense to me. It was the first time I realized that Christ personally died for my sins. It was the first time that someone pointed out these truths to me from the Bible. I trusted Christ because of what I saw in the Word of God. I didn't need any existential experience, nor an ecstatic one either. My salvation was based on knowledge--the knowledge that Christ paid the penalty of my sins on the cross, and that if I trusted him as my Savior he would forgive my sins and grant unto me eternal life.
It wasn't me running to God. It was others running to me with the gospel in obedience to the Great Commission. Do you believe that we should be doing that?

 

[Iconoclast]

I have read Romans 5 many times, and in my opinion it does not teach that Adam's sin was imputed to us. Exactly which verse in Romans 5 says Adam's sin was imputed to us? I would love to see that verse.

14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

there it is winman.....and when combined with romans 3:23,,,which teaches we all sinned at one point in time.....

will you now stop posting against bible truth?

 

[Winman]

Good for you....you still haven't addressed the person that wont....or is that the guy you assume is going to hell?

You think that asking an unanswerable question proves your doctrine is true?

Why does one person like mustard on a hot dog, while another person prefers ketchup? Well, you would say mustard tastes better, and I would ask, WHY??

Where does the sky end? There is no end to unanswerable questions, this does not prove your doctrine true in the slightest.

Jesus said some men love darkness. The scriptures say men have pleasure in unrighteousness. That is good enough for me, I can see it in the world around me. Anybody knows it is foolish to use heroin, yet people do. Why? Because it makes them feel good, they enjoy the feeling, it gives them pleasure.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Why did you come to Christ?
I came to Christ because someone shared the gospel with me (I was 20, and it was the first time I heard it). It made sense to me. It was the first time I realized that Christ personally died for my sins. It was the first time that someone pointed out these truths to me from the Bible. I trusted Christ because of what I saw in the Word of God. I didn't need any existential experience, nor an ecstatic one either. My salvation was based on knowledge--the knowledge that Christ paid the penalty of my sins on the cross, and that if I trusted him as my Savior he would forgive my sins and grant unto me eternal life.
It wasn't me running to God. It was others running to me with the gospel in obedience to the Great Commission. Do you believe that we should be doing that?

With all do respect, your changing the complexion of the OP by your last question. My own testimony shows that there are people who will not come to Christ by those means....in fact, they wont come to Christ by any human means.....so are they Reprobates, doomed to wonder the earth till death (bringing them to hell) or does God have a plan for them?