Show us the verse where it says all of us died in Adam?
MB
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Is the GOSPEL a work of the Holy Spirit, or not?
- Thread starter Skandelon
- Start date
- Status
MB
Tell me how it is that you can believe this that all have died in Adam when scriptures also says;
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Wow did you read that. Not one word about your precious election.
Even after Salvation we are still dead but now we are dead to sin. How can we be dead to sin and alive in Christ? Could it be we are now separated from sin as it no longer has any effect on our lives. This is what being dead in Adam is it's separation from God and alive to sin. There is not one verse you can show that proves we are unable to respond to the gospel elect or not. That my friend is only in Augustine's imagination because it isn't in scripture. In fact scripture never even hints at it.
MB
simple point paul is addressing is that they are only TWO classes of people on earth...
Spiritual dead in Adam, natural men
Spiritually alive in Christ, Saved men
NOT reading ANYTHING other than that, as one is either dead in sin and spirit, or made alive spiritually in Christ...
Not calvinism, thats the Bible!
False, Romans 5:12 does not say death passed on all men because of Adam, it says that death passed on all men "for that all have sinned".
Augustine and Calvin falsely taught that death brings forth sin, when the scriptures say the exact opposite, that sin brings forth death.
Jam 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
The scriptures use the term "in Adam" only once, in 1 Cor 15:22.
1 Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
This verse is not speaking of spiritual death, but rather physical death. The theme of this chapter is the resurrection of our physical bodies.
1 Cor 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
When Adam sinned, God cursed the ground. Corruption passed on all creation, even animals that cannot sin die. This is what 1 Cor 15:22 is speaking of, physical death, not spiritual. This is the one and only time the term "in Adam" is used in all of scripture. It is misapplied by Calvinists.
Last edited by a moderator:
Funny I never heard that.... please tell me where you found that tidbit. Rather, what they said was that since the fall of man, that he is actuated by wrong principles, and that he is wholly unable to love GOD or do anything meriting salvation. Now do we agree on that?
Again is there a rule when interpreting Scripture I'm missing? How many times does scripture have to mention it before its credible? :laugh:
1 Timothy 3:3-9
New Member
The bible gives all man and women the personal, individual, luxury of interpreting it in so many different ways and unfortunately until God himself comes to set us all straight and weed out the men and women who purposely use this confusion to cause more confusion with Word games and manipulation I don't see it getting any better, only pulled apart even further from the truth God intended it to be.
Apostle paul clearly meant spiritual death passed on from Adam to all of us, as God sees every one of us "In Adam"
SAME death Adam received as a result of the fall we all get, as Adam is the "head" of human family!
That is why paul made a deal contrasting spiritual death we inherit from adam, but IF in Christ, made spiritually alive again!
No Not Calvinism but it walks through the door when we assume men can't respond to the gospel because they are dead. This kind of dead is inanimate. You see the spirit of man never dies a physcial death. Only the body becomes inanimate the spirit returns to God or as in the case of the lost, lives on with out God in outer darkness. Thus; the final separation from God.
Robert Snow
New Member
Please show how 1Cor 15:22 doesn't destroy your concept of election?
JF, 1 Cor 15:22 says in Adam "all die". Now, explain to me how someone who was never alive dies?
Just how does that work? How does someone who was never alive die?
I can't wait for your answer, I am sure it will be a real doozie!
so if we operate off this premise, then discussion....even provocative discussion has it's place in clarifying ones point of view.
But you have studied Calvin's Institutes, have you not JF? I would assume then that your theology has been formulated...Right! Dead means dead in sins.....meaning that your wholly unable to love God or do anything meriting salvation....Right!
For the Non Calvinist, I would call this the Doctrine of "Total Inability"
Maybe you can explain how someone who was never alive dies?
I gotta tell ya, that's a tough concept to swallow, I have always believed you must have life to die.
So, how do "all die" in Adam?
1 Timothy 3:3-9
New Member
Yes, but there is no reason or excuse why it cannot be done charitably. I see more brotherly love and charitable reponses on philosophy forums. It is very sad the kind of emotional abuse people have to suffer on here for having there own personal views and idea's.
Last edited by a moderator:
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. (James 2:26)
--Physical death occurs when the body is separated from the spirit.
Death is separation.
Adam died spiritually when he ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Yet, he continued to commune with God. Death is separation. It is not lifelessness.
Since death is separation an unsaved man can seek the Lord, believe on the Lord, and be saved. He does not have to be regenerated first. That particular concept is not taught in the Bible. He does not have to be given the gift of faith. No such concept is found in the Bible. What is found in the Bible are simple straightforward statements as this:
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
It seems to me that most Calvinists here don't believe in the Doctrines of Grace. If they did they would also believe in sola fide.
THAt part of the make up of man that was created by god in Adam to know/enjoy/commune directly with God DIED in the fall, and ALL have that same aspect of them dead in Sin...
Once God saves us, we than get it "reborn" in order to have a personal relationship with god enabled once again!
refers to the part/aspect of the Human nature that directly interacts with/relates to God, we are ALL dead in this area, and that aspect is what gets 'reborn" in man once made alive in Christ again by grace of God!
What do you mean by "reborn"? How can something (it can't be a person) that is not alive be born?
We say "born dead" or "stillborn", but a child who is stillborn was alive once.
So again, please explain to me how something that was never alive dies.
You and others say this all the time, should be easy to explain and you must have volumes of scripture to support it. Please show these scriptures.
- Status