Is the GOSPEL a work of the Holy Spirit, or not?

[DHK]

Your own words, if you wish.

As you can see, he asserted that something was added to the natural man when he heard the Gospel that enabled him to respond or not.

This is quite different than the view Winman posed, that of nothing added to the man, merely a door being opened before him, and quite different from what he is asserting in this thread.

Just want to know which story he has finally decided to believe.

What hair do you want to split??
The one that says:
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved. (Acts 16:31)
or,
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. (Acts 10:43)

Man is made in the image and likeness of God. That means that he is born with the ability to reason and to some degree think as God thinks; something animals cannot do. In that respect man is able to put faith in God or reject God.

He doesn't need a mysterious, esoteric, inexplicable, intangible experience that no one can explain--an effectual work of grace (supposed regeneration)--an act of grace that happens before salvation. Now the Calvinist says that God gives the unsaved faith so that he can believe with God's faith to be saved. This is ludicrous.

Rather man is able to believe in Christ (and his atoning work) and be saved. That is the simple gospel message taught in the Bible. Neither Winman or Skandelon will disagree with me on that. So I ask again: What hairs are you trying to split??

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK,

Man is made in the image and likeness of God. That means that he is born with the ability to reason and to some degree think as God thinks; something animals cannot do. In that respect man is able to put faith in God or reject God.

He doesn't need a mysterious, esoteric, inexplicable, intangible experience that no one can explain--an effectual work of grace (supposed regeneration)--an act of grace that happens before salvation. Now the Calvinist says that God gives the unsaved faith so that he can believe with God's faith to be saved. This is ludicrous.

No..it is not ludicrous....Jesus said it was being born from above. Calvinists believe the truth that man died in the fall. They need God's mercy and Divine enablement. Salvation is a supernatural work of God....not the product of man doing or believing on His own.

You believe something else.

He doesn't need a mysterious, esoteric, inexplicable, intangible experience that no one can explain--

many have explained it correctly...you believe something else.

While the work of God is somewhat mysterious...it is very tangible,and is biblically explained.


DHK....your responses in post 81 are all wrong...everyone of them.

DHK...you also said this;

There is no possible way that it even infers that faith is a gift

yet we read this....
2 Thessalonians 3

1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:

2And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

 

[Iconoclast]

And yet, the OT Jews, as a whole, were God's chosen people/elect, and many perished because of their rebellion. If God saved all His Elect, as you have stated here, then none of these Jews would have died lost.

Willis ,
God does save all of the elect....

Not all Israel was part of the elect remnant.

6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed

God chose The nation of Israel to harvest His elect from.

But only the children of promise;

33They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

37I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

38I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

39They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

40But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

When Jesus told these physical descendants the truth of election according to promise , they wanted to kill HIM>

God now has the gospel go worldwide to harvest his elect from.

Not everyone in Israel, not everyone in the world...gets saved.:thumbs:

 

[Iconoclast]

:laugh:

Excellent thead, Skandelon!

Note the responses from Calvinism:

(1) God desires to save whom He has chosen by compulsion.

(2) Quoting scripture out of context, for 1 Cor 2:14-3:3 teaches men of flesh can understand the milk of the gospel.

(3) Purpose of Gospel is to save the Elect (with Elect refering not to Jews but to those individually chosen for salvation.) But 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says God chooses individuals for salvation based on faith in the truth. So a cart before the horse argument.

:laugh::laugh: very funny Van three points all wrong:thumbs:

 

[Iconoclast]

Calvinists do not believe scripture, they alter scripture to fit their man-made doctrine.

lets take "scripture says faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit." The unstated implication here is that our saving faith in Christ is a gift of the holy Spirit. That is Calvinism 101. But it simply is a fiction. The faith given by the Holy Spirit described in scripture is one of the gifts of the Spirit to those who are indwelt with the Spirit, i.e already saved. So yet another cart before the horse assertion of Calvinism. Since this faith is not given to everyone, it cannot be saving faith. You know it and I know it, but you present the argument anyway. What is up with that???

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

we believe this scripture Van...

2 Thessalonians 3

1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:

2And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

 

[Iconoclast]

"You make it sound like...." is a red flag signaling what will come next is a misrepresentation of an opponents position, a strawman to knock down. Straight from your play book. You game is well known.

We are all well familiar with your moving the goal posts argument that your claim of God's compulsion is not compulsion because after we are altered by irresistible grace, we willingly come to Christ. Fiddlesticks. LOL You view is we have no choice but to reject God, then we have no choice but to accept God and that is not compulsion. As I said, fiddlesticks.

:laugh::laugh::laugh: fiddlesticks...good response to truth Van:thumbs:

 

[Aaron]

What hair do you want to split??

Hair? Men either have faith by nature or they do not. You say they do. Now Scandal says they do and denies ever saying they had not. Before I proceed, I want to know which doctrine he has chosen to finally believe. The one he expounded before, or the one he is expounding now.

 

[Aaron]

Just out of curiosity: Is the changing of his name considered a personal attack?

Is his usurpation of a title of Christ something you can stomach?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It means click "Ignore".

OH, I thought he was suggesting banning the brother. In any event, If your going to stand on teaching the Calvinist the "Right Way to Believe" then it's my opinion (& I know what opinions are --We all have them) but you should have the rocks to take on all or your just not effective.... Id go so far as to say your impotent.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Man is made in the image and likeness of God. That means that he is born with the ability to reason and to some degree think as God thinks; something animals cannot do. In that respect man is able to put faith in God or reject God.

Yes & the tarnished & distorted that likeness the moment he put himself before God & allowed sin to enter the world.

So now, are we looking at Pre Sin Man or Post Sin Man?

 

[psalms109:31]

I think it is awesome that we can move mountain and God through the Gospel by the Holy Spirit in us can do it in His loving kindness and truth.

We only can work with God has revealed to each individual and the more mountains that our moved they more they will see.

A mountain in Christ does not need to be moved

 

[preacher4truth]

DHK,


No..it is not ludicrous....Jesus said it was being born from above. Calvinists believe the truth that man died in the fall. They need God's mercy and Divine enablement. Salvation is a supernatural work of God....not the product of man doing or believing on His own.

You believe something else.




many have explained it correctly...you believe something else.

While the work of God is somewhat mysterious...it is very tangible,and is biblically explained.


DHK....your responses in post 81 are all wrong...everyone of them.

DHK...you also said this;


yet we read this....
2 Thessalonians 3

1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:

2And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

Good answer. DHK has abated, by his words and teachings God's enabling and miraculous work of salvation to a mere outpatient procedure of an normal, unmoving, simplistic event akin to sitting on a chair. This view reeks of easy-believism.

 

[Don]

Is his usurpation of a title of Christ something you can stomach?

Seems to me that "usurpation" is something you haven't definitively proven; and therefore, you should continue debating his points, using that big brain of yours, instead of petty personal attacks. But hey, that's only my opinion.

 

[DHK]

DHK,
No..it is not ludicrous....Jesus said it was being born from above. Calvinists believe the truth that man died in the fall. They need God's mercy and Divine enablement. Salvation is a supernatural work of God....not the product of man doing or believing on His own.

You believe something else.

1. I also believe that man must be born again or born from above.
2. I also believe that man died in the fall. However I believe that you have a skewed definition of what "death" is. That is one difference.
3. I also believe that man needs God's mercy and Divine enablement--but not given in the way that you describe.
4. I also believe that salvation is a supernatural work of God and always to have. To say otherwise would be slanderous.
5. To deny that man is saved by faith is to deny the facts of the Bible.
--Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God. Clear enough?

Do I really believe differently? Let's look at some of these supposed differences.
1. The new birth: I believe it takes place at the same time as salvation. You believe it takes place prior to salvation.
2. God told Adam "in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Adam died. But the fact is that Adam, being dead, still communed with God. You don't take this into consideration. How can a dead man talk with God? This took place but you deny the Scriptures saying it is impossible to happen. But Adam, being dead, still talked with God.
--Answer: Dead does not mean lifeless. It means separated from God. Adam was separated by his sin. Sin separates. God took an animal and sacrificed it on behalf of Adam, thereby reconciling Adam to himself. Blood had to be shed. Reconciliation had to be made. The bridge between death (separation) and God had to be restored. And God restored that bridge with a sacrifice. Adam was not dead as in lifeless. He was dead as in being separated from God. The meaning of death is separation.

3. Divine enablement is simply the conviction of the Holy Spirit
4. There is no one on this board that doesn't believe that salvation is not a supernatural act of God.
5. The Bible teaches that salvation is by faith and faith alone. Do you believe in sola fide?

many have explained it correctly...you believe something else.

Of course I believe differently. I am not a Calvinist. But I believe that my beliefs are Biblical.

While the work of God is somewhat mysterious...it is very tangible,and is biblically explained.

The Holy Spirit is not tangible, but the experience can be explained in a rational way.

DHK....your responses in post 81 are all wrong...everyone of them.

No they are not; this is simply your opinion based on presuppositions.

DHK...you also said this;

Don't misquote me. I said that faith is not a gift given to the unsaved

yet we read this....
2 Thessalonians 3

1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:

2And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

What has that to do with the unsaved being given faith? That does not teach that the unsaved are given faith as a gift does it?

 

[JesusFan]

If an unsaved man could not understand spiritual things then no man could ever be saved.

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. (1 Peter 1:23)

But wait! We can't understand the word of God! We are all doomed forever in a lost state. No one can understand the Word before salvation, thus no one can be saved. :tonofbricks:

No One can be saved by JUST the Gospel, as we are born into a spritual state/condition dead to God...

so ANY who get saved is by God choosing to redeem them out of their dead state...

Word of God agent that He uses to save by faith thom whom he has chosen in christ to redeem...

is the Bible true when it states ALL of us died spiritually in Adam or not?

 

[DHK]

Yes & the tarnished & distorted that likeness the moment he put himself before God & allowed sin to enter the world.

So now, are we looking at Pre Sin Man or Post Sin Man?

Tarnished but not lost.

And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth: (Genesis 5:3)
--Now Seth was born after the likeness of Adam. The likeness of Adam indicates a sin nature.

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Romans 8:29)
--We who are saved are partially restored to that image and likeness of God. We will be fully restored at our resurrection.

 

[DHK]

No One can be saved by JUST the Gospel, as we are born into a spritual state/condition dead to God...

so ANY who get saved is by God choosing to redeem them out of their dead state...

Word of God agent that He uses to save by faith thom whom he has chosen in christ to redeem...

is the Bible true when it states ALL of us died spiritually in Adam or not?

Yes, the Bible is true. But the definition of death is not lifelessness it is separation.
In Eph.2:1 the Ephesians were made alive. They were once dead or separated from God. What separated them? It was sin. The sin barrier had to be removed. What removed it? The payment of sin at the cross of Calvary. Accept the gift of salvation by faith and they would be saved. The Holy Spirit would give them life. They would be reconciled to God as Adam was reconciled to God. It is God that gives life. It is sin that causes separation (death).

 

[JesusFan]

Tarnished but not lost.

And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth: (Genesis 5:3)
--Now Seth was born after the likeness of Adam. The likeness of Adam indicates a sin nature.

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Romans 8:29)
--We who are saved are partially restored to that image and likeness of God. We will be fully restored at our resurrection.

We are ALL "made dead" by act of adam sinning against God, so we are muchworse of post fall than pre!

 

[DHK]

We are ALL "made dead" by act of adam sinning against God, so we are muchworse of post fall than pre!

It is not degrees. Dead is dead. Can a dead cat be any more dead than a dead dog? But in the Bible dead means separation. If you are separated from God you are separated from God.

 

[JesusFan]

It is not degrees. Dead is dead. Can a dead cat be any more dead than a dead dog? But in the Bible dead means separation. If you are separated from God you are separated from God.

How dead is dead? Bible PLAINLY states that ALL of us died in Adam, dead in our sins and tresgressions, and ONLY made alive in Christ IF saved..

Again, how dead is dead?