Neither did Jesus hold the type of meetings we see today where the false healers are going and asking for money for the people.
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is the Holy Spirit Involved in the "Modern Charasmatic' Movemnent at all?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
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Neither did Jesus hold the type of meetings we see today where the false healers are going and asking for money for the people.
True! But again, just because the fake is out there does not mean the gift of healing is not for today!
I would like someone take the Bible and show me where God stop healing by the laying on of hands!
Jesus did heal ALL who came to him. As did Peter.
Again, study Acts 5:16. Faith healers today don't and cannot.
Every leper that ever came to Jesus was healed. Ten lepers came to Jesus were healed. They were all unsaved. Nine of them remained unsaved.
Like what? James says that the reason people are not healed, when they ask for it, is the faith of the pastor's prayer, not the faith of the sick person. But yet the cruel faith healer of today puts a guilt trip on the sick person and tells them they didn't have enough faith. That is a bunch of malarkey.
There are no faith healers today. The gift of healing ceased at then end of the first century.
Show me one person who has the gift of healing as Peter did in Acts 5:16; just one person in this entire earth. You can't do because the gift of healing has ceased.
I have never said it was not for today. I am not a cessationist. But there cannot be found one single example of someone who is doing it today.
Neither can anyone show an actual moment of scriptural tongues going on today either.
The true nature of those gifts have been so distorted and perverted it is an abomination.
In the church I attend I have seen four of what could be termed healings.
One was a child hit by a truck, one was a child with a brain disease, one a lady diagnosed with cancer, and one a man diagnosed with cancer.
In all four cases the church went to fervent, believing prayer, lifting these people up for God's will to be done.
In all four cases the doctors held out little or no hope. In the case of the child and the truck, it was spontaneous healing. In the case of the child with the brain disease, it was the fact two doctors met up by "accident" at a convention and the vital bit of information led to proper treatment. The lady with the cancer experience what the doctors called a miraculous spontaneous healing. The man was led "accidentally" to a doctor that knew more treatments.
The one child is doing absolutely amazingly after the head trauma. The child with brain disease functions normally. The lady is totally healthy, as is the man. All of these have now been well several years, and their healings declared complete by the doctors.
But in NOT ONE of these was any one person considered a healer.
God can and does still answer prayer and heal--on HIS terms and when HE judges it of overall benefit.
One was a child hit by a truck, one was a child with a brain disease, one a lady diagnosed with cancer, and one a man diagnosed with cancer.
In all four cases the church went to fervent, believing prayer, lifting these people up for God's will to be done.
In all four cases the doctors held out little or no hope. In the case of the child and the truck, it was spontaneous healing. In the case of the child with the brain disease, it was the fact two doctors met up by "accident" at a convention and the vital bit of information led to proper treatment. The lady with the cancer experience what the doctors called a miraculous spontaneous healing. The man was led "accidentally" to a doctor that knew more treatments.
The one child is doing absolutely amazingly after the head trauma. The child with brain disease functions normally. The lady is totally healthy, as is the man. All of these have now been well several years, and their healings declared complete by the doctors.
But in NOT ONE of these was any one person considered a healer.
God can and does still answer prayer and heal--on HIS terms and when HE judges it of overall benefit.
Yes He does, and he does it frequently.
The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
Thomas Helwys
New Member
A key difference in genuine healings and that purportedly done by faith healers is, as DHK has rightly pointed out, is that Charismatic faith healers blame failed instances of healing on the person needing to be healed. As I said, I saw one blame a person's death on lack of faith!!
This is all done to excuse and exalt the faith healer. It is demonic.
And I'll give another example. I personally knew a woman confined to a wheelchair since childhood because of polio. She traveled 300 miles to visit a faith healer's service. After being repeatedly pushed to to the floor as evidence of being "slain in the spirit" and told that she was healed but the physical manifestation of it would come later, she returned home in tears and remains in a wheelchair to this day.
I wish these people could be criminally prosecuted, but they will get worse than that one day.
This is all done to excuse and exalt the faith healer. It is demonic.
And I'll give another example. I personally knew a woman confined to a wheelchair since childhood because of polio. She traveled 300 miles to visit a faith healer's service. After being repeatedly pushed to to the floor as evidence of being "slain in the spirit" and told that she was healed but the physical manifestation of it would come later, she returned home in tears and remains in a wheelchair to this day.
I wish these people could be criminally prosecuted, but they will get worse than that one day.
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Think we all have to get past the "signs and wonders" aspect and focus on the atual teaching/theology modern Charasmatics tend to hold...
MOST of that is NOT biblical, so how can the Spirit be at work among thsoe teaching false doctrines of demonsto delude many today?
For its the doctrines they esouse that show NOT of God, regardless of "miracles" they can keep on claiming!
evangelist-7
New Member
... deceived people like you are filled with what Jesus called "UNBELIEF"!
And to think you called yourself "Rev"!
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evangelist-7
New Member
Jesus still heals today and we are called to anoint with oil and pray for healing. What I think DHK is speaking of is one having the gift of healing as did the Apostles. The Apostles had the authority, or gift, to heal anyone at anytime. We don't see this today.
THe healer is Jesus...but he tells us to pray for the sick! You or anyone else has yet to show that the gift of healings have ceased in scriptures. It is just how you justify it in your own mind because of your unbelief.
So are you saying it is the pastors fault that the person is not healed?
Show me in scriptures where the gift of healing has ceased! Again, God is the healer! But he uses us to pray! Through our obedience he will perform what He said! It is not the man that has the power to heal!
More than just the apostles had the gift of healing! He commissioned the church...are we not the church?
I thought this was about healing?
First. What happened is that God answered prayer. It says right there in the passage: "The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."
Second. There is no God-given promise that the person will be healed. God heals according to his will. Paul was not healed of his thorn in the flesh (an infirmity). Timothy was not healed of his many stomach infirmities. Epaphrodites was so sick Paul describes him as "nigh unto death," and did not heal him. Paul also said, "Trophimus have I left sick at Miletus," even though Paul had the gift of healing, as he did all the gifts of the Spirit (2Cor.12:12).
--It is not God's will that all be healed.
However there were times in the apostles' ministry that they could heal all that came to him. Then they exercised the "gift of healing."
When Jesus did such it was to demonstrate His deity.
When the Apostles healed all (Acts 5:16), it was to authenticate them as apostles and their message as being from God.
This has already been shown to you that Paul's thorn was not sickness!
Paul tells us exactly what it was: It was a "messenger of Satan" (2 Corinthians 12:7). Paul didn't use a Greek word for sickness or disease in this verse, but instead he specifically used the Greek word for "angel," and he specifically said that it was a demonic angel.
2 Corinthians 12:7: "To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger [angelos] of Satan, to torment me."
2 Corinthians 12:8: "Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me." 2 Corinthians 12:9: "But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me."
2 Corinthians 12:10: "That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong."
Scriptural justification that it might not be God's will to heal us, then are we obeying this Scripture passage? In other words, are we boasting about our sicknesses and delighting in them? Usually we go to a doctor, or we take medication, or we try to do something to get well, but notice that Paul did none of these things concerning his "thorn." Instead, he delighted in his weaknesses.
Paul did not ask God to heal him, but instead Paul asked God to take away (aphistemi, literally, "that it might depart from me") the "thorn." There's a big difference.
NO it hasn't
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