Healed of what? Nobody who wasn't there can tell you what happened, and there's no guarantee that anyone who was there can. I strongly suspect you are talking about psyching a person into numbing his own symptoms. Nevertheless... healed of what?
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
is the Holy Spirit Involved in the "Modern Charasmatic' Movemnent at all?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
- Start date
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
Healed of what? Nobody who wasn't there can tell you what happened, and there's no guarantee that anyone who was there can. I strongly suspect you are talking about psyching a person into numbing his own symptoms. Nevertheless... healed of what?
I can add more! But my above post shows that it is not sickness!NO it hasn't
This is the same Greek word which is used in Acts 12:10 when an angel "departed" from Peter, and in all of the 15 other occurrences of this Greek word in the New Testament it's never used in reference to sickness or healing (see Luke 2:37, 4:13, 8:13, 13:27, Acts 5:37, 38, 15:38, 19:9, 22:29, 1 Timothy 4:1, 6:5, 2 Timothy 2:19, and Hebrews 3:12). Paul wasn't asking for a sickness to be healed, but instead he was asking God to take away this demonic harassment.
Healed of what? Nobody who wasn't there can tell you what happened, and there's no guarantee that anyone who was there can. I strongly suspect you are talking about psyching a person into numbing his own symptoms. Nevertheless... healed of what?
Your kidding!!! Are you saying that that someone can be healed or psyched by the power of suggestion?
As Christians, we must find out what the Bible says about healing and believe what the Bible says about healing. No-one in the Bible was healed by the power of suggestion. When people are healed in the Name of Jesus, it's the power of God which healed them.
Paul wasn't asking for a sickness to be healed,
This is incorrect. What part of flesh do you not understand
he was asking God to take away this demonic harassment.
This is true and I agree
Your kidding!!! Are you saying that that someone can be healed or psyched by the power of suggestion?
Healed? No. Pysched? Maybe. Just as if you have really bad back or stomach, then you get a call that your spouse or kid was in an accident closeby, can you ignore your pain and go check things out? And I've experienced myself the power of suggestion to ignore pain or symptoms. But there was no healing of the root cause of it.
As Christians, we must find out what the Bible says about healing and believe what the Bible says about healing. No-one in the Bible was healed by the power of suggestion. When people are healed in the Name of Jesus, it's the power of God which healed them.
And the Bible does not talk about healing as a general topic. God didn't heal Paul's and Silas' stripes in Philippi, or just what stripes was it the jailer washed for them after he came to believe? And it is granted to us "not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake" [Philippians 1:29].
But tell me just what absolute physical impossibility you have seen done.
Show me in scripture where it is sickness?This is incorrect. What part of flesh do you not understand
This is true and I agree
Healing is taught all through the scriptures. Do people suffer here on earth, yes! Will God allow us to go through trials here, yes! But the Word is clear on healing and the gifts!Healed? No. Pysched? Maybe. Just as if you have really bad back or stomach, then you get a call that your spouse or kid was in an accident closeby, can you ignore your pain and go check things out? And I've experienced myself the power of suggestion to ignore pain or symptoms. But there was no healing of the root cause of it.
And the Bible does not talk about healing as a general topic. God didn't heal Paul's and Silas' stripes in Philippi, or just what stripes was it the jailer washed for them after he came to believe? And it is granted to us "not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake" [Philippians 1:29].
But tell me just what absolute physical impossibility you have seen done.
Are there fakes out there, yes! But we either believe what the Bible says or we do not! Are we walking out everything the Word says we can, NO! Many reasons for this ...one is unbelief!
One thing to consider about satan counterfeiting anything...Or are all those miracles/signs/wonders/prophecies of and from the devil?
A counterfeit is a copy of something that is original and already in existence.
The Holy Spirit is real! When the real is present in our lives the counterfeits are easy to spot!
The Pharisees accused Christ of being in aligned with the prince of devils. They used this statement as a scare tactic to drive a wedge of confusion and fear between Christ and the multitude seeking His touch.
Is there counterfeit out there, Yes! But there is also the original!
Jesus doesn't walk this earth today.THe healer is Jesus...but he tells us to pray for the sick! You or anyone else has yet to show that the gift of healings have ceased in scriptures. It is just how you justify it in your own mind because of your unbelief.
He has no need to prove his deity unless you think he has to appear especially to you. In that case beware; it might be a demon.
Even if I did prove to you that the gift of healing has ceased, would you accept my proof? That is the question you must seriously answer for yourself.
Why not?So are you saying it is the pastors fault that the person is not healed?
Look at it this way:
Ten lepers came to Jesus. They wanted to be healed (they weren't even saved). Jesus healed all ten. Who had the "faith" to heal? Jesus or the lepers? It is Christ that had the power to heal; no "saving" faith involved. They simply had the knowledge that Christ had the ability to heal.
Now "suppose" I go to India, and bring back ten lepers and bring them to you. I ask you to heal them. Will you do it? No. You cannot. You will probably be cruel and blame on the lepers and tell them they don't have the faith or even on me and say that I am in unbelief, when in reality the gift of healing does not exist, and that is the reason you cannot heal lepers today.
You don't have the gift healing and never will. That can be easily demonstrated.
The gift of healing means that God gave the gift of healing to certain men, that they were able to heal all that came to them.Show me in scriptures where the gift of healing has ceased! Again, God is the healer! But he uses us to pray! Through our obedience he will perform what He said! It is not the man that has the power to heal!
See Acts 5:16.
Peter healed ALL that came to him. Thousands of people came to him and he healed them ALL.
That is the gift of healing and you don't have it. No one has. If they did you would be able to provide the evidence but you don't and can't.
So you are saying that Jesus has to physically walk on this earth to heal today?Jesus doesn't walk this earth today.
He has no need to prove his deity unless you think he has to appear especially to you. In that case beware; it might be a demon.
Prove it by his word alone...and not some false interpretation of it!Even if I did prove to you that the gift of healing has ceased, would you accept my proof? That is the question you must seriously answer for yourself.
So if they did not have faith that Christ could heal...why did they go to him in the first place! It was more than knowledge! They acted upon what they were told..Why not?
Look at it this way:
Ten lepers came to Jesus. They wanted to be healed (they weren't even saved). Jesus healed all ten. Who had the "faith" to heal? Jesus or the lepers? It is Christ that had the power to heal; no "saving" faith involved. They simply had the knowledge that Christ had the ability to heal.
The part I put in bold is one of your mistakes! I can not heal anyone! I can obey Christ and pray for them as he said to do! It is up to Christ to heal them!Now "suppose" I go to India, and bring back ten lepers and bring them to you. I ask you to heal them. Will you do it? No. You cannot. You will probably be cruel and blame on the lepers and tell them they don't have the faith or even on me and say that I am in unbelief, when in reality the gift of healing does not exist, and that is the reason you cannot heal lepers today.
You don't have the gift healing and never will. That can be easily demonstrated.
You are trying to prove the Bible wrong by proving I do not have the gift of healing? What does the Bible REALLY say about healing??The gift of healing means that God gave the gift of healing to certain men, that they were able to heal all that came to them.
See Acts 5:16.
Peter healed ALL that came to him. Thousands of people came to him and he healed them ALL.
That is the gift of healing and you don't have it. No one has. If they did you would be able to provide the evidence but you don't and can't.
Last edited by a moderator:
No, but why did Jesus perform miracles? Why can't others walk on water? Calm the sea? feed 5,000 with a few fishes and a little bread? turn water into wine? raise the dead (after he was four days dead and buried)? And of course most of all: raise himself from the dead? The miracles demonstrated his deity. He was God on earth--fully God and fully man at the same time. As man he demonstrated that He was God through these miracles. Do you feel that you have the same need?So you are saying that Jesus has to physically walk on this earth to heal today?
Read John 10:30ff.
Verse 30, Jesus said "I and my Father are one," meaning one in essence, not just unity. The Jews knew this was a claim to deity.
They took up stones to stone him with.
Jesus said: "For what good work do you stone me?"
They replied: "For a good work we stone you not, but because you commit blasphemy!"
For you, being a man, say that you are God.
--They knew that he was claiming to be God, and yet rejected the claim.
His works demonstrated it; his words claimed it.
He could heal all that he did because he was God; God come in the flesh.
No one could do the works he could do. Nicodemus testified to that fact.
Jesus is not in the flesh now. He does refer to those that will come in his name and do "wonderful works" as he did. This is what he says:
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
--I believe he is speaking of those today who claim to be practicing the gifts of the Holy Spirit when in reality they have ceased. They are frauds.
Like I said, you wouldn't accept it. You would just claim it to be a false interpretation. Your mind is already closed. It is made up to believe false doctrine no matter what the outcome.Prove it by his word alone...and not some false interpretation of it!
Why do people go to Benny Hinn? People tell them that he can heal. The difference is that Benny Hinn is a total fraud and false prophet. I don't even believe he is saved. But Christ is God and did and does heal. The lepers didn't have faith. They were astonished when they were healed. They weren't expecting it. They were no doubt skeptical at first.So if they did not have faith that Christ could heal...why did they go to him in the first place! It was more than knowledge! They acted upon what they were told..
Luke 17:15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,
--He just suddenly realized that he was cleansed. Then he turned back after he had traveled some distance.
That is simply a game of semantics. The Lord gave Peter the gift of healing. Therefore Peter healed. That is what the text says. And Peter healed everyone of them. The fact that you cannot do that, and just admitted it, demonstrates that you don't have the gift.The part I put in bold is one of your mistakes! I can not heal anyone! I can obey Christ and pray for them as he said to do! It is up to Christ to heal them!
Acts 5:12 And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch.
Acts 5:16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.
The Bible teaches that God heals in this day and age, according to His will, and as answer to prayer.You are trying to prove the Bible wrong by proving I do not have the gift of healing? What does the Bible REALLY say about healing??
The Bible teaches that the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased and are no longer for today. They ceased by the end of the first century.
I am not God! I have never claimed a need to be God! But God has called us all to carry out His ministry on earth and He sent the Holy Spirit to empower us to do it!No, but why did Jesus perform miracles? Why can't others walk on water? Calm the sea? feed 5,000 with a few fishes and a little bread? turn water into wine? raise the dead (after he was four days dead and buried)? And of course most of all: raise himself from the dead? The miracles demonstrated his deity. He was God on earth--fully God and fully man at the same time. As man he demonstrated that He was God through these miracles. Do you feel that you have the same need?
Maybe you can explain John 14:10 Where it saysRead John 10:30ff.
Verse 30, Jesus said "I and my Father are one," meaning one in essence, not just unity. The Jews knew this was a claim to deity.
They took up stones to stone him with.
Jesus said: "For what good work do you stone me?"
They replied: "For a good work we stone you not, but because you commit blasphemy!"
For you, being a man, say that you are God.
--They knew that he was claiming to be God, and yet rejected the claim.
His works demonstrated it; his words claimed it.
He could heal all that he did because he was God; God come in the flesh.
No one could do the works he could do. Nicodemus testified to that fact.
"...but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."
vs. 11.."Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father is in me: or else believe me for the very works sake."
vs. 12..Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
That is your opionion! What is the will of the Father in heaven?Jesus is not in the flesh now. He does refer to those that will come in his name and do "wonderful works" as he did. This is what he says:
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
--I believe he is speaking of those today who claim to be practicing the gifts of the Holy Spirit when in reality they have ceased. They are frauds.
The Word of God is what made my mind up! Not your unbelief! You have yet to prove the Holy Spirit does not work today as He did then. He is here to finish the Work through the church!Like I said, you wouldn't accept it. You would just claim it to be a false interpretation. Your mind is already closed. It is made up to believe false doctrine no matter what the outcome.
Again, they believed or they would not have gone to him!Why do people go to Benny Hinn? People tell them that he can heal. The difference is that Benny Hinn is a total fraud and false prophet. I don't even believe he is saved. But Christ is God and did and does heal. The lepers didn't have faith. They were astonished when they were healed. They weren't expecting it. They were no doubt skeptical at first.
I can not see Benny Hinn's heart, I can not judge if he is saved or not! We should not judge the ability of God upon the success or failure of His followers. THe Holy Spirit guides us into all truth..
This does not prove that he did not have faith!Luke 17:15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,
--He just suddenly realized that he was cleansed. Then he turned back after he had traveled some distance.
I never claim to heal anyone! I am only sharing what the Word of God says! and it says we shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover. If you study the scriptures close it says heal the sick...That is simply a game of semantics. The Lord gave Peter the gift of healing. Therefore Peter healed. That is what the text says. And Peter healed everyone of them. The fact that you cannot do that, and just admitted it, demonstrates that you don't have the gift.
Matthew 10:5: "These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans."
Matthew 10:6: "Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel."
Matthew 10:7: "As you go, preach this message: 'The kingdom of heaven is near.'"
Matthew 10:8: "Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give."
Luke 10:1: "After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them two by two ahead of him to every town and place where he was about to go."
Luke 10:2: "He told them, "The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field." ...
Luke 10:9: "Heal the sick who are there and tell them, 'The kingdom of God is near you.'"
Mark 16:15: "He [Jesus] said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation." Mark 16:16: "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."
Mark 16:17: "And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;"
Mark 16:18: "they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.""
I see that you did not show a scripture where they have ceased, because there is not one!Acts 5:12 And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch.
Acts 5:16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.
The Bible teaches that God heals in this day and age, according to His will, and as answer to prayer.
The Bible teaches that the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased and are no longer for today. They ceased by the end of the first century.
So what is God's will concerning the sick?
Thomas Helwys
New Member
Benny Hinn is a charlatan.
God does not knock people to the ground at the waving of a televangelist's coat!
God does not knock people to the ground at the waving of a televangelist's coat!
So you are saying he is a fake because people fall to the ground?Benny Hinn is a charlatan.
God does not knock people to the ground at the waving of a televangelist's coat!
I have never experienced what some call "slain in the spirit". But...
If God were to suddenly open us up and expose us to His infinite glory and majesty, none of us could handle it. It would completely overwhelm us and overpower us. Our systems might shut down at the enormity of it, and we wouldn't be able to stand up under it or bear it. God is so much bigger than any of us are capable of comprehending, and God is probably protecting us by not revealing the fullness of Himself to us while we are in our weak, mortal bodies. So when the awesome power of God touches a person in a special way, it can easily cause a physical reaction in the frail human body and the frail human nervous system. People's hands or bodies might shake, and their knees might get weak or wobbly, and they might fall to the ground, and so on. Those who have never experienced the Holy Spirit in such a tangible way might think that a person is faking this or is demonized or something, which can sometimes be the case. However, the power of God is real, and God sometimes "touches" people in special ways.
There are plenty of examples in the Bible...
There are no examples in the Bible and I used to go to school with some of Hinn's body guards. He is a fake and should be put in jail.
You are trying to prove the Bible wrong by proving I do not have the gift of healing? What does the Bible REALLY say about healing??
No sir, he is not trying to prove the Bible wrong. False accusation. He is saying you are wrong and you do not have the gift of healing.
Where sir, did I say I had the gift of healing? He is trying to say the Bible declares the gifts have ceased and that includes the gift of healing! Nowhere in the Bible does it say they have ceased!No sir, he is not trying to prove the Bible wrong. False accusation. He is saying you are wrong and you do not have the gift of healing.
There are no examples in the Bible and I used to go to school with some of Hinn's body guards. He is a fake and should be put in jail.
"There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men." (Matthew 28:2-4)
This wasn't a pleasant experience for the guards, but the point is that their bodies had a physical reaction at the manifested glory of God, and they fell down "like dead men."
When Judas led the soldiers to Jesus so they could arrest Him, Jesus confirmed His identity by using the divine expression, "I AM" (see Exodus 3:13-14). The soldiers and Pharisees physically reacted to this pronouncement of Jesus' glory by falling to the ground:
"So Judas came to the grove, guiding a detachment of soldiers and some officials from the chief priests and Pharisees. They were carrying torches, lanterns and weapons. Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to him, went out and asked them, "Who is it you want?" "Jesus of Nazareth," they replied. "I am he," Jesus said. (And Judas the traitor was standing there with them.) When Jesus said, "I am he," they drew back and fell to the ground." (John 18:3-6)
Just a few!:thumbs:
Thomas Helwys
New Member
So you are saying he is a fake because people fall to the ground?
I have never experienced what some call "slain in the spirit". But...
If God were to suddenly open us up and expose us to His infinite glory and majesty, none of us could handle it. It would completely overwhelm us and overpower us. Our systems might shut down at the enormity of it, and we wouldn't be able to stand up under it or bear it. God is so much bigger than any of us are capable of comprehending, and God is probably protecting us by not revealing the fullness of Himself to us while we are in our weak, mortal bodies. So when the awesome power of God touches a person in a special way, it can easily cause a physical reaction in the frail human body and the frail human nervous system. People's hands or bodies might shake, and their knees might get weak or wobbly, and they might fall to the ground, and so on. Those who have never experienced the Holy Spirit in such a tangible way might think that a person is faking this or is demonized or something, which can sometimes be the case. However, the power of God is real, and God sometimes "touches" people in special ways.
There are plenty of examples in the Bible...
No, I am saying he is fake because he is fake.
Well, I do not know Benny Hinn...or am I familiar with his ministry! But we still can not prove that the real in not out there because there are fakes!No, I am saying he is fake because he is fake.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.